Trump on trial: New York vs. Donald Trump Day 9 Highlights

MSNBC
1 May 202467:42

Summary

TLDRThe trial of Donald Trump involving hush money payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall heats up as the judge finds Trump in contempt for violating a gag order, fining him $99,000 and warning of possible jail time for future violations. Key testimony comes from Keith Davidson, the former attorney for Daniels and McDougall, who provides text message evidence and details about the payment negotiations. The prosecution aims to prove that the payments were made to benefit Trump's presidential campaign, while the defense questions the credibility of witnesses and the bank's handling of the transactions.

Takeaways

  • 📚 The trial involves Donald Trump's hush money payments and the cross-examination of Gary Pharaoh, a former banker at First Republic Bank, by Trump's attorney, Todd Blanche.
  • 💸 Pharaoh facilitated a $130,000 payment to the attorney representing Stormy Daniels, which is a key focus of the examination regarding the relationship and financial dealings with Michael Cohen and Donald Trump.
  • 🤝 The defense is attempting to establish that Michael Cohen was acting independently and not directly on behalf of Trump, questioning the bank's perception of Cohen's ties to Trump post his presidency.
  • 🚫 Trump was found in contempt of court for violating a gag order imposed by the judge, with a warning that continued violations could result in jail time.
  • 💭 The judge expressed the limitation of the current legal framework in penalizing wealthy individuals like Trump, suggesting that the current maximum fine of $1,000 per violation is not a sufficient deterrent.
  • 🗣️ Keith Davidson, former attorney for Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall, provided testimony that included text message exchanges with Dylan Howard of the National Enquirer, highlighting the alleged efforts to suppress stories damaging to Trump's campaign.
  • 💬 Davidson's texts and negotiations with the National Enquirer are being used by the prosecution to argue that the payments to Daniels and McDougall were made to benefit Trump's presidential campaign, not just to address personal scandals.
  • 📉 The release of the Access Hollywood tape, in which Trump was recorded making lewd comments, is shown to have heightened the urgency to suppress similar stories, affecting the value and handling of Daniels' and McDougall's stories.
  • 👀 The jury appeared attentive during the proceedings, including when viewing video evidence and hearing Davidson's testimony, suggesting that they are engaged with the case despite its complexity.
  • 👥 The prosecution's strategy includes discrediting Michael Cohen while also presenting corroborating evidence from other witnesses and documentation to establish the transactions and Trump's involvement.
  • 🚨 The judge's ruling on the gag order violations sets a precedent that could lead to Trump facing jail time for future violations, emphasizing the court's commitment to maintaining the integrity of the trial process.

Q & A

  • What is the significance of Gary Pharaoh's testimony in the trial?

    -Gary Pharaoh, a former banker at First Republic Bank, is significant because he set up the LLC account for Michael Cohen and facilitated the $130,000 payment to Stormy Daniels. His testimony under cross-examination by Trump's attorney, Todd Blanch, is aimed at clarifying the banking procedures and the perceived relationship between Cohen and Trump.

  • What is the defense team's strategy regarding Michael Cohen?

    -The defense team is attempting to portray Michael Cohen as a solo operator who acted independently from Donald Trump. They are questioning the bank's perception of Cohen's relationship with Trump and emphasizing that Cohen did not identify as a politically exposed person when setting up the account.

  • What role did the Access Hollywood tape play in the events leading up to the trial?

    -The Access Hollywood tape, which featured Donald Trump making lewd comments, created a sense of urgency for Trump's team to suppress other negative stories about him. This tape's release heightened the stakes for the Trump campaign, leading to efforts to silence stories like those of Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall.

  • What is the 'catch and kill' strategy mentioned in the trial?

    -The 'catch and kill' strategy refers to the practice of media outlets, such as the National Enquirer, buying exclusive rights to a story with no intention of publishing it, effectively 'killing' the story. This was allegedly done to benefit Donald Trump's presidential campaign by preventing negative stories from coming to light.

  • Why is the judge considering jail time for Donald Trump's violations of the gag order?

    -The judge is considering jail time because the fines imposed for contempt of court are not a sufficient deterrent for Donald Trump due to his wealth. The judge has warned that continued willful violations of the gag order could result in 'incarcerator punishment,' indicating a potential jail sentence.

  • What is the potential impact of the gag order violations on the trial?

    -The gag order violations could disrupt the trial's proceedings and potentially influence the jury's perception of the case. The judge's decision to hold further hearings on additional alleged violations indicates a serious concern about maintaining the integrity of the trial process.

  • What is the role of Karen McDougall in the trial?

    -Karen McDougall is a former Playboy model who had an alleged affair with Donald Trump. Her story was part of the 'catch and kill' strategy by the National Enquirer, which is being presented as evidence of a coordinated effort to protect Trump's image during the election.

  • Why is the prosecution focusing on the timing and context of the payments made to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall?

    -The prosecution is focusing on the timing and context to establish that the payments were made to influence the election outcome. They argue that the payments were not merely to protect Trump's personal reputation but were part of a broader campaign to prevent damaging information from reaching the public.

  • What is the significance of the texts between Keith Davidson and Dylan Howard?

    -The texts provide insight into the negotiations and the underlying motivations for the payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall. They are being used as evidence to support the prosecution's claim that the transactions were campaign-related and intended to protect Trump's candidacy.

  • How does the judge's ruling on the gag order violations affect Donald Trump's public statements?

    -The judge's ruling serves as a formal warning to Donald Trump that further violations of the gag order, which prohibits him from speaking about the case, witnesses, and jurors, could result in more severe consequences, including potential jail time.

  • What is the potential consequence for Donald Trump if he continues to violate the gag order?

    -If Donald Trump continues to violate the gag order, the judge has indicated that he may impose an 'incarcerator punishment,' which could lead to a jail sentence for Trump.

Outlines

00:00

👨‍⚖️ Cross-Examination of Gary Pharaoh

The first paragraph discusses the ongoing cross-examination by Trump's attorney, Todd Blanch, of Gary Pharaoh, a former banker for First Republic Bank. Pharaoh had facilitated a payment to Stormy Daniels through an LLC account set up for Michael Cohen. Blanch questions the bank's relationship with Michael Cohen and their knowledge of Cohen's ties to Trump. The defense argues that the bank did not view Cohen as closely aligned with Trump, suggesting Cohen was a solo operator. The discussion also touches on the potential strategy of the defense to paint Cohen as untrustworthy and to distance Trump from the transactions.

05:00

💸 Potential Witnesses and Trump's Legal Strategy

The second paragraph explores the potential witnesses in the case, including Karen McDougall and Stormy Daniels, and their potential impact on the case. It discusses the strategic considerations of the defense and prosecution, including the possibility of the defense attempting to tarnish the reputations of witnesses to cast doubt on the case against Trump. The paragraph also mentions the judge's ruling on gag order violations and the potential for increased fines or other sanctions against Trump.

10:01

📝 Gag Order Violations and Legal Proceedings

The third paragraph delves into the potential consequences of Trump's violations of the gag order, including the possibility of increased fines or other sanctions. It discusses the strategic considerations of the prosecution and defense, including the potential for the prosecution to seek to cross-examine Trump on these violations. The paragraph also includes a discussion of the judge's authority to impose sanctions and the potential impact on the trial proceedings.

15:01

🤔 Analysis of Trump's Legal Team and Strategy

The fourth paragraph provides an analysis of Trump's legal team, particularly attorney Todd Blanch, and the challenges they face in representing Trump. It discusses the tension between appeasing the client and mounting an effective legal defense. The paragraph also includes observations on Trump's behavior in court and his interactions with his legal team.

20:03

📺 Use of Video Evidence and Political Context

The fifth paragraph discusses the use of video evidence in the trial, including footage of Trump addressing allegations made by women. It highlights the importance of establishing the political context and Trump's desperation to prevent further negative stories from emerging during the campaign. The paragraph also touches on the role of the National Enquirer in the alleged cover-up and the significance of the Access Hollywood tape.

25:04

💬 Testimony of Keith Davidson and Catch and Kill Strategy

The sixth paragraph focuses on the testimony of Keith Davidson, who represented both Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall. It details the discussions around the sale of McDougall's story to the National Enquirer and the 'catch and kill' strategy to suppress negative stories about Trump. The paragraph also includes text messages that reveal the back-and-forth negotiations and the strategic importance of the deals in relation to Trump's campaign.

30:06

👥 Jury Engagement and Legal Proceedings

The seventh paragraph discusses the jury's attentiveness during the trial and the role of technology in assisting their focus. It also touches on the judge's decision to cancel a court session to accommodate Trump's attendance at his son's graduation. The paragraph provides insight into the jury's engagement with the evidence presented, including bank records and text messages.

35:06

⚖️ Contempt of Court and Gag Order Enforcement

The eighth paragraph outlines the judge's ruling finding Trump in contempt of court for violating the gag order. It details the fines imposed for each violation and the judge's warning of potential jail time for future violations. The paragraph also includes discussion on the appropriateness of the fines in relation to Trump's wealth and the need for a deterrent effect.

40:09

🚫 Trump's Contempt Ruling and Future Violations

The ninth paragraph continues the discussion on Trump's contempt of court ruling, emphasizing the potential for jail time if Trump continues to violate the gag order. It highlights the upcoming hearing on additional alleged violations and the judge's warning of an incarceratory punishment if necessary.

45:10

💭 Trump's Legal Strategy and Impact on Trial

The tenth paragraph examines the impact of Trump's legal strategy on the trial, including his potential dissatisfaction with his current legal team and the challenges faced by his attorneys. It discusses the potential consequences of Trump's actions, such as his violation of the gag order, and the strategic considerations for his defense.

50:10

🗣️ Testimony on Trump's Alleged Affairs and Gag Order

The eleventh paragraph details the testimony regarding Trump's alleged affairs with Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall, and the role of the National Enquirer in suppressing the stories. It includes the revelation of text messages that suggest a coordinated effort to aid Trump's campaign and the potential legal implications of these actions.

55:11

📂 Examination of Text Evidence and Trump's Legal Challenges

The twelfth paragraph focuses on the examination of text messages between Keith Davidson and others involved in the case, which serve as evidence of the efforts to suppress stories about Trump's alleged affairs. It discusses the implications of these communications for the prosecution's case and the potential impact on the jury's perception of the case.

00:11

🕰️ Pacing of the Trial and Jury Engagement

The thirteenth paragraph discusses the pacing of the trial and the judge's role in ensuring the proceedings move efficiently. It also touches on the jury's level of engagement and their ability to remain attentive despite the length of the trial.

05:14

👮‍♂️ Enforcement of Gag Order and Trump's Legal Team

The fourteenth and final paragraph examines the enforcement of the gag order against Trump and the challenges faced by his legal team. It discusses the potential consequences of Trump's continued violations and the impact on his defense strategy.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Contempt of Court

A legal concept referring to the offense of willfully disobeying a court order or showing disrespect to the court. In the video, Donald Trump is found guilty of contempt of court for violating the judge's gag order, which prohibited him from making comments about witnesses and jurors.

💡Gag Order

A legal order issued by a court or judge that prohibits certain parties from publicly discussing the details of a case. In the context of the video, the judge's gag order is violated by Donald Trump, leading to a contempt of court ruling and fines.

💡Catch and Kill

A practice where a publication acquires the rights to a story with no intention of publishing it, often to suppress potentially damaging information. The video discusses this in relation to the National Enquirer's handling of stories about Donald Trump's alleged affairs.

💡Hush Money

Money paid to silence someone, often to prevent public disclosure of potentially damaging information. The video references hush money payments made to Stormy Daniels, which are part of the legal case being discussed.

💡Cross-Examination

The process in a trial where the attorney for one party questions a witness called by the opposing side. In the video, Gary Pharaoh, a former banker, is cross-examined by Trump's attorney, Todd Blanch, regarding the setup of LLC accounts and wire transfers.

💡Politically Exposed Person (PEP)

An individual who is or has been entrusted with a prominent public function, often posing a higher risk for corruption or bribery. In the video, it is mentioned that Michael Cohen did not fit this designation in the bank's books despite his relationship with Donald Trump.

💡Redirect Examination

A phase of a trial where the original attorney who called the witness is given an opportunity to question the witness again following cross-examination. The video indicates that after the cross-examination of Gary Pharaoh, the court moved into redirect.

💡Juror Engagement

The level of interest and attention jurors show during a trial. The video discusses the importance of keeping jurors engaged, especially when presenting complex or less exciting parts of a case, to ensure they follow the proceedings and understand the evidence.

💡Document Intensive

A description of a legal case that involves a significant amount of documentary evidence, such as emails, text messages, bank records, etc. The video mentions that the trial is document intensive, which can affect the pace and focus of the jurors.

💡Incriminating Texts

Text messages that contain information potentially damaging to a party in a legal case. The video highlights the use of incriminating texts between Keith Davidson and Dylan Howard as evidence against Donald Trump.

💡Character Witness

A person who provides testimony about the character or behavior of a party in a legal case. The video suggests that the defense strategy may involve questioning the character of witnesses like Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen to create doubt in the jury's mind.

Highlights

Gary Pharaoh, former First Republic Banker, is under cross-examination by Trump's attorney, Todd Blanch, regarding the setup of an LLC account for Michael Cohen and the wire transfer of $130,000 to Stormy Daniels' attorney.

The defense team is questioning the bank's perception of Michael Cohen's relationship with Donald Trump and suggesting that Cohen was acting independently.

Pharaoh's testimony is expected to be beneficial for the defense, as it may imply that Trump was not directly involved in the transactions Cohen made.

The prosecution is likely to bring in additional witnesses to establish a connection between Cohen, Trump, and the transactions in question.

Judge Juan Maran ruled that Donald Trump violated the gag order and threatened jail time if Trump continues to violate the order.

Trump was ordered to pay $1,000 for each of the nine violations of the gag order, totaling $99,000.

Keith Davidson, former attorney for Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougall, testified about the negotiations with the National Enquirer and confirmed key details about the hush money payments.

Davidson's text messages with the National Enquirer editor, Dylan Howard, were presented as evidence, revealing discussions about the payments and Trump's candidacy.

The prosecution argues that the payments were made to benefit Trump's campaign, while the defense aims to distance Trump from the transactions.

Davidson testified that Cohen was pleased with the deal, indicating that the negotiations were aimed at quelling scandals that could harm Trump's campaign.

The trial is proceeding ahead of schedule, leading to the cancellation of a court session, allowing Trump to attend his son's graduation.

The jury appeared attentive and focused during Davidson's testimony, which included discussions about the Access Hollywood tape and its impact on the Stormy Daniels story.

The judge's ruling on the gag order violations sets a precedent that could lead to jail time for Trump if violations continue.

The prosecution's case is building a narrative that the hush money payments were part of a broader scheme to protect Trump's campaign from scandals.

The defense is expected to challenge the credibility of Michael Cohen and other witnesses, highlighting Cohen's history of lying and volatile behavior.

The trial has been marked by a tug-of-war between Trump's desire for chaos and his attorney's attempts to maintain a strategic legal defense.

The judge's warning about potential jail time underscores the seriousness of the contempt charges and the court's commitment to maintaining the integrity of the trial process.

Transcripts

00:00

back following developments from inside

00:02

the courthouse of Donald Trump's hush

00:03

money trial and Michael Cohen's former

00:05

Banker Gary Pharaoh is still under

00:08

cross-examination by Trump's attorney

00:10

Todd blanch NBC's Von hilard is at that

00:13

courthouse for us what's the latest

00:17

Von right now Todd Blan is currently

00:20

cross-examining Gary phoh that former

00:22

First Republic Banker who set up that

00:25

LLC account for Michael Cohen in late

00:28

October of 2016 and then effectively

00:31

wire transferred the

00:33

$130,000 payment to the attorney

00:36

representing Stormy Daniels and under

00:38

this cross-examination Todd blanch is

00:41

asking very specific questions about the

00:43

relationship that they perceived Michael

00:45

Cohen to have with Donald Trump number

00:48

one that they never heard him directly

00:50

talk about Trump and that he Michael

00:52

Cohen had told the bank that he was

00:54

working not as an actor for anybody else

00:57

and then even in January of 2017

01:00

the defensive team is trying to get at

01:03

the fact that the bank did not take take

01:05

Michael Cohen too seriously as it

01:07

extended to his relationship with the uh

01:10

newly sworn in president Trump in

01:12

January of 2017 asking under Bank

01:15

regulations that uh one client must must

01:20

attest to them being a politically

01:22

exposed person if they are setting up an

01:24

account and Michael Cohen did not fit

01:28

that designation in their books so what

01:30

the defense team is essentially doing is

01:33

making the case that they did not view

01:34

Michael Cohen as somebody who is working

01:36

too directly align with Donald Trump but

01:38

was working independently from

01:41

him Danny Let's uh get your reaction to

01:44

this latest reporting yeah I mean this

01:47

is the Gary phoh testimony is going

01:49

along kind of the way I expected it

01:51

would I mean if you cross-examine Gary

01:53

phoh and I'm thinking about you know

01:54

Todd blanch and we have an idea what

01:57

areas he's exploring I mean you can go

01:59

after pharaoh and say Hey you were

02:00

sloppy hey you should have seen some red

02:02

flags I don't really know what that

02:04

advances for the defense uh in a way

02:07

Pharaoh is good for the people but there

02:09

are some pluses for the defense at well

02:12

as well and I wonder you know looking

02:14

back they may have brought this out but

02:15

the people probably should have focused

02:17

on this if they did I I'm not sure they

02:19

may have focused on this in their direct

02:21

but brought out that hey Donald Trump

02:22

wasn't anywhere to be seen in these

02:24

transactions with Cohen they don't

02:26

really need pharaoh to establish if

02:28

Trump was there or not there they'll use

02:29

other Witnesses for that but the key is

02:32

the parts that Pharaoh has been key on

02:35

is this transaction from Cohen to

02:37

Davidson it's there it's undeniable

02:40

they've proven that element of their

02:43

case so I mean whatever uh Headway

02:45

defense makes on cross-examination of

02:47

Gary phoh and they will they'll make the

02:49

point that Trump wasn't anywhere near

02:50

this transaction at least as far as

02:52

Pharaoh saw uh but the people know they

02:54

have to Shore that up and build their

02:56

case and bring in other W witnesses to

02:58

tie in Cohen to Trump and Trump's hands

03:01

on this I expect that's why we're going

03:03

to see opix maybe some other Witnesses

03:06

who may or may not have heard or seen

03:08

something that would tie Trump to this

03:10

transaction and we're just getting word

03:12

that the testimony of Gary faroh has

03:14

just wrapped up as far as this

03:16

cross-examination they've moved into

03:17

redirect we'll keep an eye and see what

03:19

that looks like but but Charles AR Lisa

03:21

Rubin in the court said it did seem like

03:24

Trump's lawyer was trying to use pharaoh

03:27

to paint Cohen as a liar somebody who

03:31

deceived the bank deceived others and so

03:35

clearly they're establishing him as more

03:37

of a a a solo operator is that an

03:39

effective

03:40

strategy well it could be if the jury's

03:42

going to buy It ultimately what you're

03:44

trying to do to Danny's earlier point is

03:46

disconnect or put Donald Trump as far

03:48

away from these transactions as possible

03:51

and make it so that it's almost as

03:53

though these people acted perhaps on

03:55

Trump's behalf or to his benefit but

03:57

without his knowledge or without his

03:58

instruction and I think that part of the

04:00

strategy here has to be quite frankly

04:02

that you don't make your Witnesses

04:05

likable you don't make the prosecution's

04:07

witnesses likable you make them seem a

04:09

little sleazy I expect them to try and

04:11

throw some mud on Stormy Daniels I

04:12

expect them to try to throw some mud on

04:14

Michael Cohen so that these are not

04:16

likable people so that it all seems as

04:18

though you guys are pretty much all

04:20

without Clean Hands and therefore it's

04:22

not necessarily fair or just to convict

04:25

Donald Trump when everybody here sort of

04:27

had either bad motives or was involved

04:30

in a way that they shouldn't have been

04:31

and I think that that's part of the

04:33

defensive strategy and you'll see that

04:34

more and more particularly when Michael

04:36

Cohen actually takes the stand so you

04:38

know this this is something that is not

04:40

to be unexpected the prosecution is

04:42

going to try and distance Donald Trump

04:44

and then at the same time try and Sully

04:46

the names and the reputations and the

04:48

actions quite frankly of many of the

04:49

other prosecution witnesses okay Gary

04:51

Pharaoh is done he he stepping down now

04:55

who's next Danny oh that's unfair I I

04:58

really it could be any look into the

05:00

crystal ball for me yeah I mean I expect

05:02

so for example Karen McDougall we may

05:04

see Karen McDougall but you know while

05:06

she is an example of a flashy witness

05:08

she doesn't really Advance the ball that

05:11

much for the prosecution You could argue

05:13

that she isn't really even necessary or

05:15

minimal minimally necessary so we have a

05:17

lot of potential Witnesses in this case

05:19

that are explosive flashy exciting but

05:23

some of them aren't necessarily that

05:24

compelling in terms of proving the facts

05:27

and the elements that the prosecution

05:28

needs stormy Daniel is kind of an

05:30

example of that I mean arguably you've

05:32

already gotten the Gary phoh testimony

05:34

we've got the transaction the documents

05:35

are in that transaction is what it is

05:38

the jury either believes it or they

05:39

don't but there's documents to back it

05:41

up so we have an unusual this isn't I

05:43

mean this isn't that uncommon in Trials

05:45

you'll have witnesses that put on a show

05:47

but the substantive Witnesses you might

05:49

make an argument that a Gary Pharaoh was

05:51

more important to the the people's case

05:54

than say a Karen McDougall which is a

05:56

transaction that Trump isn't even

05:57

charged with in this case but everyone

05:59

wants to hear from her why not yeah and

06:02

we just are told the court has moved

06:04

into recess no word yet Charles on who

06:07

is coming next so same question to you

06:10

we've got Caren McDougall out there

06:11

Stormy Daniels Michael Cohen hope pxs

06:14

Keith Davidson who who do you think

06:16

should be called next if you're the

06:18

prosecutor uh I'm gonna go with either

06:21

Davidson or McDougall I don't know that

06:23

I'm using Stormy Daniels yet only

06:25

because she's one of the bigger names

06:26

left um I think that you do have to have

06:29

a witness who's going to add some level

06:31

of flavor back to the prosecution's case

06:34

just to keep the jury engaged this is

06:35

Gary Farrell is not a witness that's

06:37

going to be pretty exciting for the jury

06:39

and you don't want to lose them because

06:41

you're going to need them to be able to

06:43

follow everything that's taking place

06:45

and as of right now the prosecution has

06:47

not gotten to the point where Donald

06:49

Trump has committed any crime say you

06:51

have to keep jury engaged and right now

06:54

uh Gary Farrell is not going to do it so

06:56

I would expect them to come back with

06:57

someone who's going to have a little bit

06:59

of flavor

07:00

little bit of scintillating testimony

07:02

just to make sure that the jury stays

07:03

engaged and you can continue presenting

07:05

your case in Chief Charles Coleman Danny

07:07

stalos our thanks to both of you as well

07:09

as Von hilard as he continues to report

07:12

outside the

07:13

courthouse Maya what do you make of the

07:15

judges ruling on these gag uh violations

07:18

and I'm just thinking is it like a a

07:20

system by which you say you know and the

07:22

judge said I wish I had the possibility

07:25

of increasing those fines right to

07:28

$1,000 is it that on Thursday he could

07:30

decide to increase and others how was

07:32

that

07:33

work yeah well first let let's just say

07:36

this and I think this is really

07:38

important to understand there is a

07:40

statute that the judge is paying

07:42

attention to that says the court has to

07:45

protect judicial proceedings and the

07:48

respect for the Mandate of the Court the

07:51

orders of the court and just remember

07:53

Donald Trump was not ordered to be

07:56

silent about the case he was only

07:59

ordered to not speak about Witnesses

08:03

jurors Court Personnel or their families

08:07

in other words the very things that

08:09

Donald Trump has in run out and done in

08:10

other cases but also has done repeatedly

08:13

in this case so essentially what we're

08:15

seeing here is the judge saying I'm

08:17

going to take the reasonable step of

08:20

finding you the maximum that I am

08:23

allowed which is

08:25

$11,000 per instance that you violated

08:29

my order and remember he did I think

08:31

nine out of 10 so he didn't find all of

08:33

them in contempt but the point in the

08:35

message he's sending is look don't keep

08:38

doing this and if I could I would charge

08:41

more I would find you more but the

08:44

reason is because I am trying to tell

08:47

you give you all the

08:50

disincentives to disrespecting this

08:52

court and disrespecting the process

08:55

disrespecting the orders in order to say

08:58

get in line and just do what's right

09:01

here uh so what he's also saying is but

09:04

I've got more I can do and I will if you

09:07

make me and it's that simple because he

09:10

can't just he can keep finding him

09:12

$1,000 doar each time he does it but his

09:14

point I think is pretty clear which is

09:17

Donald Trump is a wealthy man and so

09:19

$9,000 may not be disincentive to

09:23

someone who has all the money that

09:25

Donald Trump tells us all the time that

09:27

he has

09:29

and so David right now there is a break

09:32

for the jury but the uh prosecution and

09:34

the uh defense is meeting with the judge

09:37

now and among the things that the

09:40

prosecution is asking for uh is uh and

09:43

it's interesting because he says here

09:44

that you know they want supplemental

09:48

Sandoval notice for Trump specifically

09:51

what does that mean so so what they're

09:53

saying is they want to be able to

09:55

cross-examine Trump on these violations

09:57

of the gag order and and you know the

09:58

prosecution has to be careful about

10:00

overplaying their hand because Trump

10:03

wants chaos right that's what he's

10:04

playing on that's what he's hoping for

10:06

the $9,000 is mindset that's not even a

10:08

slap on the wrist it's more like a pat

10:10

on the back and and he's going to keep

10:12

violating he's going to keep doing it

10:13

but what the prosecutor is saying now is

10:14

we want to be able to cross-examine him

10:16

on this and this is what led to problems

10:18

in the Harvey Weinstein case that led to

10:21

a reversal last week so the the

10:23

prosecution has to be really careful

10:25

about overplaying its hand and saying we

10:27

want to use all of this stuff for

10:29

cross-examination to show the jury and

10:31

I'm sure Trump's loving it right but if

10:33

you cross-examine Trump that means that

10:35

he would have to agree to be a witness

10:37

on this correct and and so what the

10:38

prosecution is saying is if he is a

10:40

witness we want the ability to

10:41

cross-examine and in New York the judge

10:44

has to rule on that in advance of him

10:46

coming on the stand so the defense knows

10:48

what's fair game for cross and what's

10:50

not fair game so Maya the judge is going

10:52

to hold that hearing this Thursday on

10:53

the four more alleged gag order

10:55

violations what does this decision

10:57

potentially mean for Thursday

11:00

well I think it just means that we're

11:03

going to find out if there's more fines

11:05

or if the judge is going to feel it

11:07

necessary to take a more extreme step

11:10

and find some way to sanction Donald

11:13

Trump that either has him sitting in the

11:15

back of the courtroom not the front um

11:17

there are all kinds of ways the judge

11:19

can put him in a form of contempt that

11:23

reduces where and how he's positioned in

11:26

the courtroom but I think um and equally

11:28

importantly and to David's Point look

11:31

you know part of what the prosecution

11:33

may be doing here is saying we actually

11:36

want to make sure you know you keep

11:38

talking out here we're actually going to

11:40

be able to cross-examine you if you take

11:41

the stand on things you're saying that

11:43

go directly to the facts that need to be

11:46

established in this case like the fact

11:48

that he's out here saying hey it was

11:50

just a business transaction it wasn't

11:52

mine and I didn't have anything that

11:54

Michael Cohen just did some things he

11:56

does a lot of things for other people

11:58

that actually go straight to Donald

12:00

Trump's intent and what he did and did

12:02

not do and I would say that would be an

12:04

overstep in that instance uh at the same

12:07

time I think it's also a warning to

12:09

Donald Trump you do have other reasons

12:12

why you might want to be careful about

12:15

what you

12:16

say and David I know that you're you

12:19

know a lot of the people that are

12:20

involved in this trial as well as the

12:22

other trials upcoming for for the former

12:25

president blanch specifically he is

12:28

right now there fighting in this whole

12:30

issue how would you describe that legal

12:33

team that the former president has in

12:35

this case you know Todd's a great guy

12:37

he's a friend um he's doing everything

12:39

he can I saw that there were leaks this

12:41

weekend about you know Trump being

12:43

unhappy and you know it reminds me of

12:45

the story with blanch and and it reminds

12:47

me of the story of the Scorpion and the

12:48

Frog right the Scorpion asked the Frog

12:50

for a ride across the lake and the the

12:53

Frog thinks you know if I do this am I

12:55

going to get stung of course not cuz

12:56

then we'd both drown and of course the

12:58

Scorpion Ste the Frog halfway across and

13:00

as they're drowning the the frog says

13:02

why' you do that and the Scorpion says

13:04

it's in my nature this is in Trump's

13:06

nature he cannot help himself he wants

13:08

chaos he wants to attack the judge the

13:11

jury and now his lawyers I feel for Todd

13:13

he's in a very very very difficult

13:16

position and the what teeth does the

13:19

judge have on gag order violations going

13:22

forward is it always going to be another

13:24

thousand another thousand or jail or as

13:26

Maya was saying moving him he he can you

13:28

know moving him is an option I don't

13:30

think the judge is going to do that that

13:31

Trump wants to be put in jail he wants

13:34

the chaos he wants the the judge to take

13:36

that step so he can complain it's almost

13:38

like the graduation thing he he was

13:40

better off uh when the judge was saying

13:42

you can't go to graduation this morning

13:43

the judge said you can go now Trump

13:45

doesn't have that to complain about so

13:47

Trump is pushing the judge for this for

13:50

this you know break point where the

13:52

judge has to put him in jail Trump is

13:54

not going to stop based on a couple

13:56

thousand dollars I'm I will guarantee

13:58

you that we're hearing for the first

14:00

time from inside the courtroom with

14:02

MSNBC Chief legal correspondent Ari

14:04

melber host of the beat and he's just

14:06

made his way out okay give us your big

14:08

takeaways

14:11

Ari well this was obviously uh one of

14:13

the most significant uh patches of

14:15

testimony we've had about the underlying

14:18

incidents you had defendant Trump

14:20

sitting there in court um as questions

14:23

were asked um about whether as they put

14:26

it in court uh does Melania know quote

14:28

unquote that he had this affair did this

14:30

happen quote unquote during the marriage

14:32

referring to those uh texts as Keith

14:34

Davidson the lawyer for Karen McDougall

14:36

spoke to Dylan Howard the Tabloid uh

14:39

senior publisher figure about the nature

14:41

of this story um so I think this was by

14:44

far one of the the most intense uh Court

14:46

days for the defendant and clearly uh

14:49

from my view just to tell you in the

14:50

room I could see the side of the

14:52

defendant's face as he kind of watched

14:53

it he largely looked composed or even

14:56

non Plus at times um during what was

14:58

obviously a striking or dramatic moment

15:00

I also had a view of the jury and while

15:02

we're careful about not describing them

15:04

in detail as a general matter uh the

15:06

jury appeared very attentive very

15:07

wrapped very focused on on what was a

15:10

very eventful Set uh of of facts or

15:14

allegations put forward um and then we

15:16

also had of course as I think you were

15:18

covering video of then candidate Trump

15:20

played so the jury could take that in so

15:22

really it was it was quite an active

15:24

couple

15:25

hours let me ask you too about the

15:27

relationship as you viewed it between

15:30

Todd blanch his key lawyer and Donald

15:32

Trump himself because there was a large

15:34

story in the New York Times today about

15:37

how uh Trump is getting frustrated we've

15:40

seen this before right in the past with

15:42

Donald Trump he wants his lawyers to do

15:45

what he's going to do there's this push

15:46

and pull how do you appease your client

15:50

but also do what you think is going to

15:52

get your client acquitted did you see

15:55

anything telling between the two of them

15:59

well they were conversing almost like

16:01

normal today is how I would describe it

16:03

um this is as you know a defendant who's

16:05

much more actively involved in problem

16:07

in I have a problem

16:10

here um I can hear you can you hear

16:17

me all right I'm going to keep going um

16:19

I Heard Chris ask about the microphone

16:21

but I'm being told I I can be heard

16:22

hopefully I was going to say we could

16:23

see defendant Trump who's much more

16:25

active than most defendants in the legal

16:27

setting um speaking having sidebars at

16:30

one point I could see um his lawyer

16:32

blanch kind of covering his mouth so

16:34

that the internal cameras that are used

16:36

inside the court might not pick up

16:38

anything but he was having back and

16:39

forth uh with defendant Trump and we

16:42

also could see again from inside the

16:44

courtroom um Mr Trump going up and down

16:47

the aisle in both times and he he looked

16:49

very Stern as he has in other days but

16:51

perhaps one might say uh he looked

16:53

particularly Stern today so we would see

16:55

those kind of interactions with his

16:56

lawyers and and blance was doing the

16:57

normal stuff today I mean they had stuff

16:59

in front of the jury but they also had

17:01

stuff without the jury talking about

17:02

planning and scheduling and so um to the

17:04

extent that we're kind of looking for

17:06

tea leaves about their relationship it

17:08

didn't seem to me like an abnormal day

17:11

for their interactions let me go back to

17:13

the jury if I can for a second and we're

17:15

going to talk more about this going

17:16

forward which is sort of the story that

17:18

you have to build as a prosecutor right

17:21

and the fact that they brought in a

17:23

couple of people that maybe they didn't

17:24

need to they could have just said the

17:27

defense could have said you know what

17:29

we're going to say it's okay you don't

17:30

need to bring the guy in from C-SPAN

17:32

we're going to allow accept this uh to

17:35

come in uh but is there any point at

17:38

which you saw the jury lost attention

17:42

sometimes when you start talking about

17:43

things like documents and people who are

17:46

on who are not as exciting maybe as the

17:48

other folks have been do the jurors seem

17:51

engaged and are they still taking

17:55

notes they're taking notes they did

17:57

appear engaged um and that seemed to be

18:00

the case for both of sort of the morning

18:02

sessions the first session and then the

18:03

post break session where we had uh that

18:06

more dramatic testimony about the

18:08

dealings with with McDougall about the

18:10

quote unquote Affair and those questions

18:11

and those old texts so I didn't detect

18:14

again from watching and I had a pretty

18:15

clear view from the second row of the

18:17

jury I didn't detect them totally tuning

18:19

out that said you're absolutely right um

18:21

that as cases drag on the whole reason

18:24

that sometimes you come to stipulations

18:25

with the other side is to avoid doing

18:27

what you did today where you sort of

18:29

have someone from cpan which all of our

18:31

viewers know we love cpan but you have

18:33

someone there really for chain of

18:34

custody purposes saying yes this is

18:36

really the right tape yes this really is

18:38

the Donald Trump and if the jury doesn't

18:40

know they don't know why it's getting so

18:42

boring right they don't know the

18:44

necessarily the backstory of that um but

18:45

they've been instructed by the judge and

18:47

my experienced jurors uh tend to follow

18:49

this when the judge says hey there are

18:51

reasons we're doing this they relate to

18:53

accuracy and fairness uh we're not

18:55

trying to waste your time the judges put

18:57

it in more formal language but basically

18:58

yeah we got to have these people in so

19:00

you know the video you're looking at the

19:01

text you're looking at this is all legit

19:04

joining us now as former assistant

19:06

district attorney from Manhattan and New

19:07

York law school Professor Rebecca royy

19:09

criminal defense attorney and MSNBC

19:10

legal analyst Dany savalos and New York

19:12

Times investigative reporter uh David

19:15

fenold uh David back to you on the this

19:18

issue of the moment that we were in in

19:19

the campaign I mean you broke the excess

19:21

Hollywood tape uh bring us into the into

19:24

how crucial um this testimony could

19:27

possibly be for the Pro

19:30

prosecution well you have to remember

19:32

the prosecution is they have to make a

19:34

two-step they have to make they have to

19:36

prove two things here not just the

19:37

Donald Trump lied about the documents

19:40

that showed he paid that Michael Cohen

19:41

paid somebody off and that he paid back

19:43

Michael Cohen but that he did it for a

19:45

specific reason he lied in those

19:46

documents to help his political campaign

19:49

to subvert an election to hide something

19:51

from the public so that's why it's so

19:52

important for them to be explaining the

19:54

political context and the political

19:55

meaning of the paying off stormmy

19:57

Daniels it wasn't just a hide something

19:59

from Trump's wife it was to hide

20:00

something from the voting public so yeah

20:02

the the day after AIS Hollywood the

20:04

story we wrote uh my the Paul Ryan the

20:08

most prominent Republican in the house

20:09

was canceling events with Donald Trump

20:11

other people Republican elected

20:13

officials were telling their members

20:14

Senators Hey listen if you want to cut

20:16

ties with this guy save yourselves

20:18

basically walk away from him it was a

20:19

time of total abandonment I've never

20:21

seen a a Presidential nominee of either

20:24

party abandoned even briefly by their

20:26

own party the way that he was abandoned

20:27

in the late St of that campaign so it

20:30

helps you understand sort of the

20:31

desperation he was in not to have

20:33

another one of these shoes drop but what

20:35

about the desperation Rebecca I'll bring

20:36

you on in on this for Cohen to to make

20:39

this deal because it was was initially

20:41

going to be an Ami deal a national

20:42

Inquirer deal but then the the inquir

20:45

says we're not a bank we can't do this

20:47

and then there is a negotiation or plea

20:50

from Dylan Howard at the inquir to Keith

20:52

Davidson to to negotiate directly with

20:55

Michael Cohen he says who's really

20:57

pushing him to do it and you can see on

20:59

the screen Davidson says moral of the

21:01

story here is no one wanted to talk to

21:03

Cohen that's eliciting laughter from the

21:05

room but why is it important or is it

21:07

important for the prosecution to to make

21:10

it clear that this was not just a deal

21:11

between or not a deal between Ami and

21:13

Stormy Daniels but a deal now directly

21:16

with Michael

21:17

Cohen yeah absolutely because as David

21:20

was saying the core of this case is

21:22

about falsifying records it's about

21:23

lying on records so this is setting up

21:26

the key elements of the crime to come

21:29

which is why did Michael Cohen and

21:33

president Trump former president Trump

21:35

um engage in these series of lies and so

21:39

coming on the heels of this testimony it

21:41

makes quite clear that what their intent

21:43

would be in doing that it was now so

21:45

much pressure on them to do it

21:47

themselves and they had to get around

21:49

this problem of how do you pay this and

21:51

hide the payment and so we are really

21:54

not only talking about the intent um to

21:59

uh commit or conceal maybe that state

22:01

election law crime which makes it a um a

22:04

crime to unlawfully promote the election

22:07

of a person through unlawful means but

22:09

also setting up the the reason why as

22:12

you suggested in the in the early part

22:14

of what you were saying the motive for

22:17

falsifying those records and we have

22:19

Michael Cohen coming up sometime down

22:21

the down the road and this is setting up

22:23

a really good I think a really good ramp

22:25

for Michael Cohen which is you don't

22:27

really you know he is he's almost up

22:30

there and you don't really have to think

22:31

he's a truth teller in order to believe

22:34

what he is saying because all of this is

22:36

being set up by other Witnesses and

22:38

those Witnesses are being corroborated

22:39

by these text messages Danny I know

22:41

you're thinking about this like a

22:43

defense attorney is and what we're

22:45

seeing in the courtroom according to our

22:47

reporters who are there is that Todd

22:48

blanch has been enjoying moments of this

22:51

testimony moments that described Michael

22:52

Cohen as uh somebody who was volatile

22:55

and angry stormy Daniel says you know

22:58

some she said jerk called her streaming

23:01

expletives at her screaming at her

23:02

Davidson says he picked up the phone and

23:04

called Cohen and for the first few

23:06

minutes all he heard was a a stream of

23:08

vitriol blanch seemed to enjoy that why

23:11

because blanch is central theme is going

23:13

to be to cast out on The credibility of

23:16

Michael Cohen he's going to skewer

23:18

Michael Cohen on the stand and establish

23:20

that Michael Cohen has what we've all

23:22

known for a long time which are

23:23

credibility problems but here's the key

23:27

look at this example of the Davidson

23:29

testimony then you've got the um the

23:31

testimony of David pecker then you even

23:33

have the banker Gary Pharaoh at this

23:36

point with Davidson Gary phoh the banker

23:39

before we've even gotten a Cohen there

23:41

seems little doubt that this transaction

23:43

happened so you see an example of Once

23:45

By the time Cohen gets to the stand and

23:47

he's called a lying liar his pants are

23:49

on fire then you can say as the

23:52

prosecution well all right you may find

23:55

him less than credible but look at all

23:57

these other Cor ating things we have we

23:59

have documents we have wire transfers we

24:01

have the banker he had no reason to lie

24:03

Davidson by the way when it gets to

24:05

cross and this is the way I think of it

24:07

while this direct is going on they're

24:09

probably going to explore Davidson uh

24:11

the the idea that hey this was kind of a

24:14

sley Arrangement wasn't it or or they

24:16

might even suggest aren't you in the

24:17

business of essentially extorting people

24:19

or this is extortionate like Behavior

24:22

you might hear that but that may not go

24:24

far uh with Davidson to challenge what

24:27

he's there for which is to bookend this

24:30

underlying transaction by the way here's

24:32

something Davidson doesn't establish uh

24:35

he doesn't establish that Donald Trump

24:36

was heavily involved he establishes that

24:38

Cohen was involved so the people have

24:40

gone a long way to establish the Stormy

24:43

Daniels transaction the payment they're

24:45

going to need more evidence to bring in

24:47

Donald Trump we've heard some of it

24:49

we've already heard some suggestions by

24:51

David pecker for example that Donald

24:53

Trump cared about the campaign we've

24:54

heard there's also circumstantial

24:56

evidence that the uh invol ment in catch

24:58

and kill may have increased as it came

25:01

closer to the campaign those are all

25:02

things the jury can rely on but the

25:03

people know they need to do more on

25:05

Donald Trump's involvement and his

25:07

intent on that Davidson testified that

25:09

he understood in dealing with Cohen he

25:11

was dealing with Donald Trump he did not

25:13

question that again that is still one

25:16

remove from Donald Trump you don't have

25:17

Donald Trump explicitly saying that he

25:19

knew about what he was paying for he

25:21

knew about this deal so far you don't

25:23

have that you have a lot of people

25:24

testifying that they talk to him about

25:26

it they heard him talking to they heard

25:28

him saying it or they heard him he was

25:30

in on these conversations they

25:32

understood Michael Cohen was acting on

25:33

his behalf but but as Danny was

25:35

mentioning a moment ago still one step

25:37

removed from him we'll see how close the

25:39

prosecution gets um as this as this

25:41

testimony

25:43

continues start with the big statement

25:46

from the judge today telling defendant

25:48

Trump you lost you violated the gag

25:51

order you must take the stuff down and

25:54

the worst could be yet to

25:56

come the judge just issued a ruling on

25:59

gag order violations finding Trump in

26:02

contempt they are threatening to throw

26:06

the Republican nominee for president in

26:09

jail for talking Harris he was only

26:13

ordered to not speak about Witnesses

26:17

jurors Court Personnel or their families

26:20

he says in part that this was willful

26:23

violation by Donald Trump I can see the

26:26

side of the defendant's face as he kind

26:27

of watched should he largely look

26:29

composed or even non- plus at times

26:31

threaten the former president with

26:33

actual jail time if he violates it again

26:37

so that all happened today legally the

26:40

defendant in this case Donald Trump is

26:42

not in control of any part of these

26:44

proceedings the judge is the individual

26:47

in our government process at this point

26:49

in a trial who determines both what

26:52

constitutes violating the gag order and

26:55

what the punishment can be if he does it

26:56

again now what you have here was nine

26:59

violations primarily from online posts

27:02

that were flagged by the da and reviewed

27:04

by the judge it's

27:05

$99,000 but the real threat is what was

27:08

said today if Trump continues to attack

27:10

Witnesses or violate the order he could

27:12

face jail time the judge saying he just

27:15

won't tolerate willful violations of the

27:17

lawful orders and if necessary will

27:19

impose a quote

27:21

incarcerator

27:22

punishment you can tell from the root

27:25

word there incarcerate or incarceration

27:27

I have the same document we put the

27:29

quote up there for you that's in here

27:31

that's the one part I mean the whole

27:32

thing is much longer and the we saw the

27:34

lawyers sort of scurry out of the room

27:35

and review it as you'd expect but it's

27:38

that word incarcerator incarceration

27:40

that got everyone's attention and the

27:41

defendant knows what that means he heard

27:44

that and in a sign of compliance as I

27:46

mentioned the Trump team swiftly took

27:48

down past online posts that the judge

27:50

deemed violated the order today that

27:52

occurred also during the morning break

27:55

now prosecutors called a witness from

27:56

seaspan today to confirm that basically

27:59

the videos of trump that they showed to

28:01

the jury today were valid so the jurors

28:04

could see from all of this that it was a

28:07

big issue back in 2016 that Trump was

28:09

facing these allegations from women and

28:11

about relationships you have to remember

28:14

and I was thinking about this in the

28:15

room watching these jurors who were all

28:17

looked like New Yorkers with their notes

28:19

out and they're paying attention but to

28:21

the best of my ability I can't tell you

28:24

that they looked like super political

28:26

junky nerds and and I also know from

28:29

watching the questioning in the Vere

28:30

that they answered a lot of things by

28:32

saying I kind of remember or I don't

28:33

remember that cuz people are busy living

28:35

their lives and this is eight years back

28:37

so if you're watching this newscast you

28:39

might remember all this but not every

28:40

juror does and today was the first time

28:44

that Donald Trump's voice was actually

28:46

heard within this trial as they watched

28:47

these type of

28:49

videos I have no idea who these women

28:52

are these are lies being pushed by the

28:55

media and the Clinton campaign to to try

28:58

and keep their grip on our country they

29:02

are all false they're totally invented

29:05

fiction Every Woman lied when they came

29:09

forward to hurt my campaign the events

29:13

never happened never all of these Liars

29:17

will be sued after the election is over

29:20

Michael con is a very talented lawyer

29:21

he's a good Le that's just some of what

29:24

was played the second to last clip there

29:25

that the jurors heard is late October

29:27

16th

29:28

uh so again if you're just a regular

29:30

citizen who's not obsessed with this

29:32

stuff you might not know that in late

29:34

October 16 this was a big enough issue

29:37

that it was coming up day after day that

29:39

the candidate was talking about the

29:40

Access Hollywood tape connected not only

29:43

to what he said on that tape you might

29:44

remember that but to these other things

29:46

which we now know from this very

29:49

interesting if nothing else set of

29:50

evidence in the trial was just the tip

29:53

of the iceberg as they tried to keep

29:55

back the other stories and allegations

29:57

so the prosecutors brought out that

29:59

witness to attest to the videos and the

30:02

jurors saw that but the key witness

30:03

today as I mentioned was former attorney

30:05

for stormmy Daniels and model Karen

30:07

McDougall Keith Davidson who had those

30:09

damning texts who was on the other side

30:11

of Cohen in these transactions now

30:14

that's a sketch of him you see there but

30:16

Pete Davidson also not a household name

30:18

but we've always tried to talk to

30:19

everyone we can in our reporting and if

30:21

you happen to watch the news back in the

30:23

day when all of this first came out

30:25

Keith Davidson was someone we spoke to

30:27

right here on the

30:29

beat the Affairs happened in 2006 uh

30:33

Michael Cohen and I uh first contacted

30:35

each other about the matter in 2011 so

30:38

at a minimum they knew uh about me and

30:40

about uh stormmy at a minimum uh in 2011

30:44

they knew about it in 2012 and 13 and 14

30:47

they knew about it in 2015 they knew

30:49

about it when Donald Trump declared uh

30:51

that he was a

30:53

candid now I was just looking at that

30:55

there you see him recounting how long

30:57

this had all been going around at which

30:58

different investigators knew about it

31:00

now the da put Davidson on today that's

31:02

long before we have heard or the jury's

31:04

heard from Michael Cohen and it maybe

31:06

because Davidson doesn't have the kind

31:07

of credibility issues that Cohen has the

31:10

bad news for Trump today was Davidson

31:12

still confirmed the same key details

31:15

that we know Cohen confirms because

31:17

we've heard what Cohen has to say the

31:19

negotiations with the Inquirer which had

31:21

what became an obviously clear agenda of

31:23

buying and burying these stories and the

31:26

jury saw this compelling text evidence I

31:28

mentioned between Davidson and a top

31:31

National Inquirer editor now this is a

31:33

rare Peak into a process that even at

31:35

the high levels of media and campaigns

31:37

you don't always see because it's so

31:38

secretive the lawyer tipping off the

31:40

inquire about McDougall the former

31:42

Playmate as a blockbuster Trump's Story

31:45

the Tabloid editor responds I will get

31:48

you more that's more money than anyone

31:51

for it you know

31:54

why huh now if it was years ago and you

31:58

even got your hands on that sorted text

32:00

message you might not know why these two

32:03

apparently did and now the rest of us do

32:05

the national inquire had this very

32:07

unusual deal of catching and killing

32:09

stories now they did it for more people

32:12

than just Trump but those other people

32:13

aren't on trial in new in this New York

32:15

courtroom Trump is now when asked what

32:18

that meant the lawyer responds he knew

32:20

the national inquires publisher and

32:22

Trump were longtime friends had a

32:24

business relationship so again we're

32:25

going from that old text to this damning

32:28

testimony today against Trump and he

32:31

went on to say that they wanted to close

32:32

the deal quickly that ABC was interested

32:34

in the McDougall story but remember and

32:36

I know there's a lot going on here but

32:37

remember ABC is the kind of network that

32:40

we would expect to share to publish to

32:44

broadcast her story if they got it

32:46

because ABC is a traditional News

32:47

Network not so much The Inquirer when

32:50

they're doing what the da says is

32:51

basically the work of the Trump campaign

32:53

so The Inquirer said they would lay it

32:55

on thick for McDougall and then David

32:58

said good and throw in an ambassadorship

33:01

for me he said the comment was in just

33:04

but again it refers to something that da

33:05

wants to prove that this whole

33:07

conversation and plot and

33:09

money was about Trump's candidacy that

33:12

somehow if Karen McDougall had this deal

33:14

with AMI that's the Tabloid it would

33:16

help Trump's

33:18

candidacy so even a joke by text can

33:21

become criminal evidence because again

33:23

it goes to what they're saying it props

33:25

up what Cohen is saying it confirms a

33:28

lot of the testimony we've heard thus

33:30

far Trump is Presumed Innocent the burd

33:32

on the prosecution but they're trying to

33:34

meet that burden by stacking up all

33:36

these different people saying duh this

33:38

was about the campaign wasn't about some

33:41

privacy interest of Donald Trump who's

33:43

so known to jealously guard his privacy

33:46

that's not really his thing they also

33:48

tried to corroborate this alleged

33:50

conspiracy and how it benefits the

33:51

campaign with the prosecutor saying is

33:53

it safe to say if you close the deal it

33:56

would benefit Trump Davidson confirming

33:59

today yes the inquire and McDougall

34:01

reached an agreement of about

34:03

$150,000 we also learned today and I

34:05

I'll tell you I was there watching as

34:07

they went back and forth and the jury

34:08

seemed pretty interested they said oh

34:10

they started out with an Ask of a

34:11

million dollars for McDougall which is a

34:13

lot a lot a lot of money and you could

34:16

see all these jurors who are just people

34:18

with predominantly normal jobs in New

34:20

York City kind of lean in and go you get

34:22

a million for that it was a detail that

34:24

Drew interest ultimately they landed at

34:27

the sum of 50k which we did know

34:30

Davidson the lawyer testified that

34:31

Michael Cohen was pleased with the deal

34:34

prosecutors also discussed the Stormy

34:36

Daniels deal and claimed there that it

34:40

was the same motive take a woman who

34:42

talks about this past history with Trump

34:45

and the videos they showed in the

34:46

morning that showed candidate Trump

34:47

couldn't afford one more Scandal like

34:49

this and get the deal done so Davidson

34:52

confirmed the DA's argument that the

34:53

Access Hollywood tape was driving all of

34:56

this because Donald Trump was already

34:59

looking at a very tight race perhaps a

35:00

losing race and couldn't afford another

35:02

Scandal David texted Howard that's the

35:06

inquire guy Trump is effed and Howard

35:10

who again has a boss who's trying to

35:12

help Trump said at the time according to

35:14

these texts that are now in court wave

35:16

the White Flag it's over people Davidson

35:20

said the inquir then backed out and that

35:23

with the Stormy Daniels concept was why

35:25

he then ended up negotiating directly

35:27

with Cohen prosecutors asked did you

35:30

believe Cohen was going to be the

35:31

ultimate source of the funds and this is

35:34

where again the sorted plot took a turn

35:37

and they're showing this all to the jury

35:38

text by text today he responded never

35:42

never prior to the funding and the

35:44

prosecutors say well where did you

35:45

understand the money would come from and

35:48

he replies from Trump or some corporate

35:50

affiliation thereof basically Trump or

35:52

some shell piggy bank and then he

35:54

discussed his frustration today saying

35:57

Dylan again that's the Inquirer tells me

35:59

push for the cash then tells me to call

36:01

Cohen then when I call Cohen he says I'm

36:03

not paying anything and Davidson

36:05

testifies it's one more snafu I thought

36:08

Cohen was trying to kick the can down

36:11

the road till after the

36:14

election now at this point you may say

36:17

why did the prosecutor spend so much

36:18

time on those little details you might

36:21

even say why is the newscaster spending

36:23

so much time in those details because

36:25

they're not little details they go to

36:27

the part of the criminal motive that the

36:29

da is trying to prove because if this

36:31

was all just a coverup of private stuff

36:34

then you don't really get that second

36:36

crime you don't get the felony there's

36:37

still probably business fraud I've told

36:39

you there's overwhelming evidence of

36:40

business fraud but that's a misdemeanor

36:43

if you prove however against the

36:44

backdrop of everything I just told you

36:46

they went through in one day in court

36:48

Donald Trump in October lamenting and

36:51

you know clapping back against these

36:53

women who were making these allegations

36:55

and the excess Hollywood tape and the

36:56

money deal and the feeling that he was

36:58

hanging by a thread and then you add to

37:00

that the idea that as long as they could

37:01

keep it quiet to the election that's all

37:04

they cared about you start to say was

37:06

this private money or free press and the

37:10

Press generally can do a lot of things

37:11

TMZ buys stories too or was it something

37:14

else was it as the da alleges a secret

37:17

off the books campaign crime program

37:22

where Michael Cohen and The Inquirer

37:24

moved a lot of money around and they

37:26

didn't report into the Fe

37:28

and it wasn't fair to the other

37:29

candidates in the Republican or

37:30

Democratic party and they got

37:32

caught that's what they're trying to

37:34

prove

37:35

today so today we finally got that long

37:38

awaited ruling on whether or not Donald

37:40

Trump violated the gag order in his New

37:42

York election interference case the

37:44

prosecutors flagged 10 instances eight

37:46

from social media two from his campaign

37:48

website that they said ran a foul of the

37:50

judge's order most of the posts attack

37:53

Michael Cohen citing a New York Post

37:55

article calling him a serial perjurer

37:57

others go after adult filmar shy Daniels

38:00

and former prosecutor from the DA's

38:01

office Mark pomerans now this morning

38:03

the judge agreed with the prosecution on

38:05

nine of those 10 instances judge Maran

38:08

finding Donald Trump in contempt of

38:09

court ordering him to delete the post by

38:12

2:15 this afternoon which he did Trump

38:15

has also been ordered to pay $1,000 per

38:17

violation for a total of $99,000 due on

38:19

Friday and if he does it again the judge

38:22

warned that and I quote him here the

38:24

court will not tolerate continued

38:25

willful violations of its lawful order

38:28

and that if necessary and appropriate

38:29

under the circumstances it will impose

38:31

an incarcerator punishment I'm joined

38:34

Now by Loris Cordell who serves as a

38:36

judge on the California Superior Court

38:38

still with me here at the table Harry

38:40

Litman and Lisa Rubin and Harry you were

38:41

saying something that I cut you off

38:43

before he went to break but do you

38:45

remember what it was h

38:48

no but this was really you buried the

38:50

lead just now because this is the first

38:53

time Trump has heard next time you're

38:55

going in because what preceded this was

38:58

May CH saying the money just is not

39:00

effective and really this he has now you

39:04

know raised the the hammer and and says

39:06

next time I'm coming down Lisa you made

39:08

the point that the Thousand fine for

39:10

instance is statutorily prescribed by

39:13

New York law uh judge Cordell you you

39:16

were with us here and you you have made

39:18

a point that a lot of people took a lot

39:19

of notice of and I've heard back from

39:21

folks who talked about your point that

39:24

you made here on this air that you know

39:26

you you can say look we are there is

39:28

going to be jail time and I'm not going

39:30

to tell you how much it is or where it

39:31

is until after the trial so that you you

39:33

try to get this disincentive effect what

39:35

do you think of the ruling by judge

39:37

Maran

39:38

today uh the judge's ruling was totally

39:41

within his discretion he found nine

39:44

violations uh but there's a bit of a

39:46

dilemma he's created um and is that he

39:49

has another contempt hearing coming up

39:50

on Thursday and that's four more alleged

39:53

violations so if the judge finds that

39:56

all of those were in fact violations of

39:59

his gag order I think most people would

40:02

think well then you know he's going to

40:03

send him to jail well he really can't

40:06

because what he said today was that

40:08

going forward correct if there are any

40:10

more violations these four preceded it

40:13

so now we'll have maybe 13 or 14

40:15

violations likely with more fines so had

40:19

the judge had the two contempt here the

40:23

violations put them all together and had

40:25

one hearing I think we'd have a

40:26

different situation here where the judge

40:29

probably would be inclined to say okay

40:31

that's enough you're going in that

40:33

that's a great point an important one

40:35

because subsequent violations don't

40:36

count for this hearing Thursday I just

40:38

want to just to enter into the record

40:40

here uh the some of the the posts by the

40:43

the defendant in this case which again

40:44

this is all very unusual this just

40:47

really doesn't happen uh the judge has

40:49

taken away my constitutional right to

40:50

free speech I the only presidential

40:52

candidate in history to be all caps

40:54

gagged this whole trial is rigged by

40:56

taking away my freedom of speech the

40:57

highly conflicted judge is rigging the

40:59

presidential of 2024 election election

41:01

interference he also said this is a

41:03

total Witch Hunt hours of sitting down

41:05

and listen to nothing except exoneration

41:06

and lies the trial is going like a

41:08

speeding bullet because the judge is

41:10

working hard to make all of his friends

41:11

happy he's rigged crooked conflicted

41:14

disgraced to our country this is today

41:16

this is today this is today now one of

41:18

the things he says here and I we've sort

41:20

of made this joke before that it's going

41:21

too fast and too slow like it's he's

41:23

sitting there so much but it's going so

41:25

fast and two two things to bring up here

41:28

one is the thing we discussed in the

41:30

last block which is the refusal to

41:32

stipulate is elongating the trial time

41:34

correct absolutely it's hard to see how

41:36

it couldn't the fact that you have to

41:38

bring in the guy who's the head of cpan

41:39

archives from Indiana with his Council

41:42

to go through the process by which cpan

41:44

records and keeps video archives of

41:47

campaign speeches and make the jury sit

41:49

through that too imagine how many more

41:51

times we might have to go through

41:53

similar things for other videos for

41:55

example it can't help but elongate the

41:57

trial and this is a guy who's blaming

41:59

Alvin brag for keeping him off the

42:00

campaign Trail when his lawyers and he

42:03

have made choices that are keeping him

42:05

there for longer not only that just to

42:07

follow up he doesn't appear to enjoy

42:09

himself and I can't imagine I would

42:10

either I I I don't think this is a

42:12

strange or character flaw he does a lot

42:14

of resting of his eyes we can't say

42:17

what's going on this is uh long saying

42:20

the rosary in his head this is uh Ry

42:22

about campaign speeches or he's falling

42:24

asleep whatever it is he is his eyes

42:27

closed a lot in that room his eyes are

42:29

closed a lot and to me what I will say

42:31

is he appears to be at rest for

42:35

considerable periods of time you know I

42:36

spend a lot of time with my nose either

42:38

in my phone or my computer at the

42:40

courthouse trying to transcribe or

42:42

Capture Moments for you and our other

42:45

colleagues here but every time I looked

42:47

up today particularly during the first

42:49

part of the day Donald Trump's eyes were

42:52

closed he could have been meditating he

42:55

could have been napping that's not for

42:56

me to say other than I think he appeared

42:59

to be at rest I brought binoculars RM

43:01

we're talking about seriously he he was

43:04

under um judge let me ask you this

43:06

question the the the pacing of the trial

43:09

so far um I I want to get your sense of

43:12

how you think it's going obviously there

43:14

is the fact that defense won't stipulate

43:17

to these sort of archival to these

43:19

records they have to bring in experts

43:20

but what what do you think about the

43:22

pacing so

43:23

far so it's really the job of the judge

43:26

to make sure sure the trial is moving

43:28

along and I know when I was on the bench

43:30

and I had many jury trials I was always

43:32

looking over at the jurors they're

43:34

always looking at me too uh but to see

43:36

if they they were with us basically and

43:39

I knew if saw some people yeah saw them

43:42

noding out then we take a recess uh so I

43:44

I believe the pace is good these jurors

43:46

are genuinely interested in what's going

43:48

on in the courtroom and I think it's

43:50

true basically of all all juries there

43:53

maybe a few exceptions they really want

43:56

to do the work and they are paying

43:59

attention uh to what's going on and they

44:01

know this is this is important um so you

44:04

know and if I could just say one thing

44:07

about the fines that Maran imposed I I

44:10

put out a call to New York legislators

44:13

they need to amend the statute that

44:16

punishes criminal contempt in New York

44:18

it is ridiculous uh now to have a

44:21

maximum fine of $1,000 per violation it

44:25

was probably right at the time because I

44:27

don't think they ever envisioned having

44:30

wealthy just blatantly IGN the orders of

44:33

the court so I hope that happens sooner

44:35

than later on the point of juries you

44:38

know this is a hobby horse of mine but

44:39

if you'll indulge me to briefly ride it

44:41

uh it it you know it is the case that

44:45

people's ability to pay attention for

44:47

long periods of time all sorts of

44:48

empirical evidence has pointed to that

44:51

ability shrinking and obviously we

44:53

understand why that is we have constant

44:54

stimulus and distraction and even just

44:56

thinking of about I mean this is

44:57

happening every day across the

44:58

courtrooms Across America so this is

45:00

just a slice of that but the the idea of

45:03

remaining attentive and fixed for this

45:06

period of time not looking at your phone

45:08

not looking at other things for everyone

45:09

in that room it has taken on a level of

45:14

difficulty or um strangeness in the

45:17

normal course of things that I that that

45:19

I I'm curious how you feel like you when

45:21

you check in on the jury how you think

45:22

they're doing on in that score I

45:24

actually think they're doing really well

45:27

um they all have Chris as you know an

45:30

individual monitor in front of them and

45:31

that certainly helps particularly when

45:33

an examination is document intensive

45:35

because their eyes are fixed on for

45:38

example the individual text between

45:40

Davidson and um Howard or the emails

45:44

between Davidson and Cohen they

45:46

certainly looked really attentively at

45:47

the bank records that other people might

45:49

be bored by they're really interested in

45:51

the details but the technology in the

45:53

courtroom is assistive to them in that

45:55

way in helping them stay engaged they're

45:58

closer to the players than anybody else

46:01

and they've got their own personal

46:02

monitors with the exhibits demonstrated

46:05

for them so it definitely aing the

46:08

juror's ability to pay attention that

46:10

having been said I think this

46:12

particularly particular jury is

46:14

especially attentive more attentive than

46:16

for example the two juries in the eing

46:18

Carol trials which who I thought were

46:21

also fairly attentive I would say it's

46:23

eing somewhat and there are a couple

46:26

people in particular it's the best part

46:27

of being in the courtroom to really

46:29

focus there are a couple jurors who who

46:31

you think if he's got a shot it'll hold

46:33

on maybe it's they but they have come in

46:35

and out and the the um the text we were

46:38

talking about where he's so effed you

46:40

could see their attention come for it

46:43

but it it's waned I think even in the

46:46

days that I've been there they're

46:47

they're pretty good but but they're not

46:50

at the edge of their chairs there's much

46:51

fewer much less note taken than there

46:53

was Judge Loris Cordell Harry Litman and

46:56

Lisa Ruben uh great to have you all

46:58

thank you very much having us also you

47:00

can get much more insight into what's

47:01

been happening in the courtroom during

47:03

this trial in the latest episode of my

47:05

podcast wise is happening with Lisa

47:08

Rubin we got to talk about the trial uh

47:10

it was great it is available wherever

47:11

you get your podcasts so check it

47:14

out jail may be a necessary punishment

47:19

that is what judge Juan Maran told

47:22

Donald Trump today and he said it in

47:25

writing the trial of the people of the

47:27

state of New York against Donald J Trump

47:29

defendant began as trial days frequently

47:32

begin with what the judge called some

47:34

housekeeping matters one of them was

47:37

trying quote to work something out with

47:39

the sound system end quote to make it

47:41

work better another was a good news bad

47:44

news item for Donald Trump the judge

47:46

said because the trial is proceeding

47:48

ahead of schedule the judge will cancel

47:50

the court session scheduled for Friday

47:52

May 17th quote so Mr Trump can certainly

47:56

attend that that date attend his son's

47:58

graduation the bad news for Donald Trump

48:00

is he might now actually have to go to

48:02

his son's High School graduation and

48:04

then as the third housekeeping item on

48:08

the judge's mind he used less than a

48:12

minute of court time to announce his

48:14

finding that Donald Trump is indeed

48:16

guilty of contempt of court the judge

48:19

said quote the court finds that the

48:21

people have met their burden of proof

48:24

and demonstrated contempt Mr Trump is

48:26

find $1,000 on each I am handing down a

48:30

written decision copies for both sides

48:33

the details of the decision are in the

48:35

written decision and that was that in

48:38

the courtroom the judge then brought in

48:40

the

48:40

jury in the seven pages describing

48:43

Donald Trump's violations of the judge's

48:45

order forbidding him to make comments

48:47

about Witnesses and jurors the judge

48:48

decided that Donald Trump violated his

48:51

his order nine times and fined Donald

48:54

Trump the maximum fine of ,000

48:57

for each of those violations the judge

48:59

noted the inadequacy of the fines in

49:02

Donald Trump's case the judge wrote the

49:05

Judiciary law does not vest the court

49:07

with authority to craft an appropriate

49:10

punishment when a$1 thousand fine will

49:12

not achieve the intended purpose while

49:15

$1,000 May suffice in most instances to

49:18

protect the Dignity of the judicial

49:20

system to compel respect for its

49:22

mandates and to punish the offender for

49:25

disobeying a court order it

49:27

unfortunately will not achieve the

49:29

desired result in those instances where

49:32

the contor can easily afford such a fine

49:37

in those circumstances it would be

49:40

preferable if the court could impose a

49:42

fine more commensurate with the wealth

49:45

of the contor in some cases that might

49:48

be a $2,500 fine in other cases it might

49:51

be a fine of

49:53

$150,000 because this court is not

49:55

cloaked with such dis discretion it must

49:58

therefore consider whether in some

50:01

instances jail may be a necessary

50:05

punishment therefore defendant is hereby

50:08

warned that the court will not tolerate

50:10

continued willful violations of its

50:12

lawful order and that if necessary and

50:14

appropriate under the circumstances it

50:17

will impose an

50:19

incarcerator

50:21

punishment when the trial resumes on

50:23

Thursday the first order of business is

50:25

a hearing on four more alleged

50:27

violations of the judges gag order

50:29

against Donald Trump the worst of those

50:32

violations is Donald Trump saying in an

50:34

interview last Monday quote that jury

50:37

was picked so fast 95% Democrats the

50:40

areas mostly all Democrat you think of

50:44

it as a just a purely Democratic area

50:46

it's a very unfair situation that I can

50:49

tell you Donald Trump is under an order

50:52

to not say a word about the jury not a

50:55

word so it doesn't actually matter that

50:58

what he said about the jury is a lie

50:59

Donald Trump has no idea how many

51:01

Democrats are on that jury or how many

51:03

Republicans might be on that jury but we

51:06

do know that Donald Trump is going to be

51:07

fined $1,000 for saying that and that

51:10

what we don't know yet is how many more

51:15

of these violations will it take for the

51:18

judge to consider jail unnecessary

51:22

punishment 30 days is the maximum

51:25

sentence that judge can issue for any

51:27

one of these violations if Donald Trump

51:29

were sentenced to any time in jail he

51:32

would be like many of the criminal

51:34

defendants who report for their trials

51:36

every day in that same Courthouse while

51:39

living in jail on Riker's Island across

51:42

the water from LaGuardia Airport and so

51:45

Donald Trump has never been closer to

51:48

spending a night in jail than he is

51:52

right now the most important testimony

51:55

of the day was given by the man who said

51:57

I have a blockbuster Trump story Keith

52:00

Davidson was Stormy Daniels first lawyer

52:03

and before that he was Karen mcdougall's

52:05

first lawyer and it was in his role as

52:08

Karen mcdougall's first lawyer that he

52:10

texted the editor of the national inquir

52:12

Dylan Howard the line I have a

52:14

blockbuster Trump story prosecutor

52:17

Joshua Stein glass Who has possession of

52:20

the test texts asked witness Keith

52:23

Davidson to read that text that he sent

52:26

to Dylan Howard I have a blockbuster

52:29

Trump story question what did what did

52:32

you mean by that answer sort of an

52:34

entree or a teaser to Dylan to let him

52:37

know that I had perhaps an opportunity

52:39

for him question and what was the

52:41

generally speaking and certainly without

52:43

revealing client confidences what was

52:45

the opportunity about which you were

52:47

contacting him answer regarding the

52:50

interaction between Karen McDougall and

52:51

Donald Trump question what did Mr Howard

52:55

say if anything in response answer talk

52:58

first thing I will get you more than

53:00

anyone for it you know why question what

53:03

do you understand talk first thing to

53:05

mean answer that would he that he would

53:08

call me in the morning question what did

53:10

you understand the rest of the text to

53:12

mean answer that I don't know if I had a

53:15

clear understanding at that time but I

53:17

knew that Dylan's boss David pecker and

53:20

Mr Trump were longtime friends and had a

53:22

former business relationship that Mr

53:24

pecker published Trump magazine

53:27

and that at the time Ami had announced

53:30

they hadn't announced explicitly at

53:32

least implied that they had endorsed Mr

53:35

Trump's

53:37

candidacy that's why Karen mcdougall's

53:39

lawyer believed National inquir would

53:41

pay for her story to help Donald Trump's

53:44

candidacy that was the reason Dylan

53:47

Howard's reply was talk first thing I

53:50

will get you more than anyone for it you

53:53

know why and the why and Keith

53:57

Davidson's answer was Mr Trump's

53:59

candidacy prose the prosecutor asked

54:02

Keith Davidson to read more texts from

54:05

Dylan did he cheat on Melania question

54:09

who did you understand he to be

54:11

referring to answer Donald Trump

54:13

question okay next test from whom from

54:15

Dylan okay okay do you know if the

54:19

affair was during his marriage to

54:21

Melania question again do you understand

54:24

his to be a reference to Donald Trump

54:26

answer yes and how did you respond to

54:29

this text answer I really cannot say yet

54:33

sorry question is that because you

54:35

didn't know or because you weren't

54:37

prepared to discuss the details of that

54:39

point answer it was because it was the

54:41

latter because I was not prepared to

54:43

discuss the details at that point Keith

54:46

Davidson then entered negotiations with

54:49

the national inquire to sell Karen

54:50

mcdougall's story to the National inquir

54:52

Keith Davidson arranged a meeting for

54:54

Karen McDougall with Dylan Howard and

54:55

Keith d Davidson's office in California

54:58

question can you tell us the substance

55:01

of what M McDougall said about the

55:03

nature of her interactions with Mr Trump

55:05

during this meeting answer I can

55:07

summarize it question that's fine answer

55:10

Miss McDougall alleged that she had had

55:13

a romantic affair with M with Donald

55:16

Trump for some years prior question when

55:18

you say romantic does that include

55:20

sexual answer that's what she

55:23

expressed that was the Blockbuster story

55:26

that was for sale to the National

55:28

Inquirer Caren McDougall was a Playboy

55:30

magazine model who in 1998 was Playmate

55:33

of the Year Karen McDougall has said in

55:36

interviews that she was in love with

55:37

Donald Trump and she did not want her

55:39

story with about Donald Trump to be made

55:42

public but Keith Davidson was able to

55:44

use that story as leverage to use the

55:47

national Inquirer to pay his client

55:49

Karen McDougal $150,000 to work for the

55:53

national inquir or its parent company by

55:56

occasionally maybe writing articles for

55:59

them the prosecution alleges that this

56:01

was a classic example of the so-called

56:03

catch and kill scheme that the jury has

56:05

already heard about in David Pecker's

56:07

testimony which revealed the secret plan

56:10

for the national Inquirer to kill all

56:12

negative stories about candidate Donald

56:15

Trump purchase them if necessary and to

56:18

highlight and even invent negative

56:20

stories about Donald Trump's campaign

56:21

opponents car McDougall was not the last

56:25

Blockbuster Trump story that Keith

56:27

Davidson worked on the next one was the

56:30

stormmy Daniel Story the prosecutor

56:33

asked Keith Davidson what the what the

56:35

release of the Access Hollywood video of

56:38

Donald Trump bragging about sexual

56:40

assault meant for the stormy Daniel's

56:42

story and the value of it question what

56:45

impact if any did the release of the

56:47

Access Hollywood tape have on interest

56:49

in stormy Daniel story so far as you

56:51

were aware answer so far as I'm aware it

56:54

had tremendous influence question can

56:57

you explain that a little bit to the

56:59

jury please answer before Access

57:01

Hollywood tape there was very little if

57:03

any interest from what I understand it

57:06

wasn't until Access Hollywood that

57:09

interest sort of reached a crescendo

57:11

Keith Davidson was then asked about his

57:14

texts after the Access Hollywood Story

57:17

broke question who sent the first text

57:21

in this chain it's from me and question

57:24

what did you say answer answer Trump is

57:27

effed question you wrote out the whole

57:30

word effed in the text answer I did

57:32

question what prompted you to say that

57:35

Trump was effed answer the Access

57:38

Hollywood tape question how did Dylan

57:40

Howard respond answer he responded with

57:43

wave uh wave the White Flag it's over

57:48

people ex ex exclamation point H

57:52

question and how did you interpret that

57:54

answer I think he was seconding my

57:56

opinion question based on the Access

57:58

Hollywood tape answer yes eventually the

58:01

national Inquirer backed out of the deal

58:03

with and Keith Davidson had to negotiate

58:05

directly with Michael Cohen for the hush

58:07

money payments that were paid directly

58:09

to Stormy Daniels when they were

58:11

struggling to finalize the deal and

58:13

Michael Cohen was not ready to make the

58:15

payments Davidson remembered Cohen

58:18

saying well godamn it what do you expect

58:20

me to do my guy is in five effing States

58:23

today or three or four or five different

58:25

states States today there is nothing I

58:27

can do I am doing everything I can

58:29

question when he said that his guy was

58:32

in a certain number of states who did

58:34

you understand his guy to be making

58:37

reference to

58:38

answer Donald

58:40

Trump George you were our eyes and ears

58:44

in the courtroom today what stood out to

58:46

you well I mean there wasn't much that

58:47

that was said about the gag order it was

58:49

a written opinion and we didn't actually

58:50

have the judge read it in court other

58:53

than to say I Ruled nine out of tend for

58:56

the prosecution why you didn't want to

58:58

waste time what why didn't he read it I

59:00

because he wanted to get straight to the

59:01

trial and and I think you know a lot of

59:03

the stuff that we just heard about what

59:05

was in the opinion we didn't actually

59:07

hear an open court um but that off

59:09

obviously was very very significant

59:11

because he's going to have more to say

59:12

on this next week when the second round

59:15

of or third round actually of of gag

59:18

order violations is going to be

59:20

discussed and I think that you know it's

59:22

very significant that I think that he

59:25

mentioned the possibility of jail he's

59:27

not going to impose it for this next

59:30

series of events because it occurred

59:33

before he issued this opinion but I

59:36

think he's probably if I had to guess

59:38

he's probably going to reiterate next

59:40

week when he he he he probably is going

59:42

to rule more quickly next week because

59:44

these violations were of a piece of nine

59:46

or the 10 that he upheld uh he's

59:48

probably going to just say that's it the

59:50

next time at least I I would do that I

59:53

think the next time you're running the

59:55

risk of of I mean this is it you've

59:58

you've you violated this like what 13

60:01

times or whatever how whatever the

60:02

number is going to be and um you know he

60:05

doesn't have to throw the guy in the

60:06

clink for the entire duration of the

60:08

trial he can just say okay you're going

60:09

to go in for a couple of hours and see

60:11

how you like it then if you do it again

60:12

you'll go in for four or five hours and

60:15

so on and so forth and um I you know it

60:18

Donald Trump would be unwise to test

60:20

that out I mean he's talking about the

60:22

all of his supporters well uh even today

60:25

after complaining about how the

60:26

supporters wouldn't be weren't able to

60:28

get in and there's nothing obstructing

60:30

these people from getting in there only

60:31

five people there I mean I think he

60:34

grossly overstates um his support in you

60:38

know against this court Neil what do you

60:40

think what do you think about where this

60:42

gag order is going could Donald Trump

60:44

find himself in a

60:46

Timeout I I do think so I mean I think

60:49

the first thing to say Steph is just

60:51

today's decision really underscores just

60:54

how accustomed we are to Donald Trump's

60:56

involvement in criminal proceedings I

60:58

mean a really enormous thing happened

61:00

today a former president of the United

61:02

States was held in contempt of court in

61:05

a felony criminal trial and 10 years ago

61:08

that would have been an unthinkable

61:09

statement and here it's just like

61:11

another Tuesday um and I think that the

61:14

judge was actually quite protective of

61:16

trump I'm surpris not surprised but you

61:19

know I think the Judge should have gone

61:21

further and imposed a criminal sentence

61:24

and then suspended it so that he would

61:25

would have to serve it and it could warn

61:27

Trump and say look you know this is the

61:29

consequence of what you will do what

61:31

you're doing and jail is on the table

61:34

next time the warning today is something

61:36

somewhat similar to it but my fear is

61:39

Donald Trump is just going to do it

61:40

again I mean he seems totally consumed

61:44

by his need to attack Witnesses and to

61:46

attack the prosecutor and you know

61:48

indeed if Trump didn't stay up every

61:50

night tweeting about the witnesses and

61:52

prosecutors maybe he'd actually be able

61:53

to stay awake during his trial Susan

61:56

give us a history lesson because this is

61:58

not just a payoff to cover up an

62:01

extramarital affair because the infamous

62:04

Access Hollywood tape emerged one month

62:08

before the 2016 election can you remind

62:11

us why this has become so relevant again

62:13

in this

62:15

trial well that's right I mean you know

62:18

you you you make a good point we thought

62:20

when the Access Hollywood tape appeared

62:22

right before the election and there was

62:24

dramatic testimony about this in the

62:26

courtroom today that this was going to

62:28

be the end of Donald Trump's

62:30

presidential campaign uh and that in

62:33

fact is what the witness testified there

62:35

are some amazing text messages from 2016

62:38

in which he said basically Donald Trump

62:40

is screwed that's not the word he used

62:42

but this this game is over but it wasn't

62:45

over and so the the legal theory of the

62:47

case that's now being presented in this

62:49

Manhattan courtroom is that in fact it

62:52

was the effort to cover up these stories

62:54

from emerging to the voters in 2016 uh

62:58

that was the theory of the case that was

63:01

why Donald Trump and Michael Cohen were

63:04

acting to buy stormy Daniel story that's

63:07

the that's at the heart of the case

63:08

that's being presented right now but

63:10

these allegations about Donald Trump and

63:13

not just Stormy Daniels but another

63:15

woman Karen McDougall goes all the way

63:17

back to 2011 and that's the evidence

63:20

that they're hearing in the courtroom

63:21

right now and the timeline matters

63:24

because Katherine the jury saw this

63:26

video of trump himself denying

63:28

allegations from women who publicly

63:30

accused him of sexual assault after the

63:34

Access Hollywood tape emerged watch

63:37

this they're trying to poison the mind

63:40

of the American

63:42

voter Every Woman lied when they came

63:46

forward to hurt my campaign the 5% of

63:49

the people think it's true and maybe 10%

63:52

think we don't we don't win

63:56

how effective do you think that

63:58

was very effective because for the

64:00

prosecution for the prosecution because

64:02

first of all Rona the executive

64:04

assistant said that Trump had Miss

64:06

McDougall and Miss Daniels contact

64:08

information and she even believed she

64:10

saw Miss Daniels in the waiting area so

64:13

his denial of knowing either of them is

64:16

false if he takes the stand and he won't

64:19

but let's say he did this will be a way

64:23

to attack his credibility his lawyers

64:26

now can't say in summation he's never

64:28

met these women here he is on tape

64:31

basically testifying to the jury but in

64:33

the way that the prosecution wants the

64:35

jury to see him George reportedly Donald

64:39

Trump is not happy with his lawyer Todd

64:41

blanch Todd is not following Trump's

64:44

instructions and he wants to have his

64:46

own Roy con who was once a hard charging

64:50

lawyer so hard charging that he was

64:53

eventually disbarred shouldn't this be a

64:56

moment I can't even believe I'm asking

64:57

this where Trump says holy cow I'm a

64:59

criminal defendant I better actually

65:02

listen to a lawyer I I it it's

65:05

astonishing I mean he manages to create

65:07

chaos wherever he goes he manages to

65:09

create chaos among his legal teams

65:11

whenever whenever he has a new legal

65:13

team I think it would be a big mistake

65:15

for him to get rid of blanch I mean

65:17

blanch didn't exactly cover himself with

65:19

Glory uh in the in the argument about

65:21

the gag order but it wasn't it wasn't

65:24

blanche's fault it was basically blanch

65:26

was stuck out there defending the

65:28

indefensible thanks to Donald Trump I

65:30

mean it's Donald Trump's fa I think and

65:31

today you know blanch is being put in

65:33

this impossible position he spent a lot

65:35

of time

65:36

cross-examining that bank witness the

65:38

bank witness from uh First Republic and

65:41

it was really really quite pointless

65:43

there was just a lot of rehash of the

65:45

direct because I think I mean I'm

65:47

guessing speculating that the reason why

65:49

there was this lengthly pointless

65:51

cross-examination was to make Donald

65:53

Trump happy but the fact of the matter

65:55

is is the question I the cross I would

65:57

have asked would have been like three

65:58

questions you never talked to Donald

66:00

Trump you don't know what Donald Trump

66:02

told Michael Cohen to do you have no

66:04

basis to conclude that Donald Trump told

66:07

Michael Cohen to lie to you and to the

66:09

bank uh about what these companies and

66:13

these payments were for and that have

66:15

been cross when he fires Todd blench he

66:17

might look to hire you Neil what do you

66:18

think don't think so yeah no I agree

66:21

with George I mean first of all I think

66:23

everyone you know including Donald Trump

66:25

should have access to a great lawyer it

66:27

makes the system better and I think it's

66:29

very important for someone like Trump to

66:31

have a lawyer who's independent enough

66:33

to tell his client when he's over the

66:35

line as he's been on for example

66:37

violating the gag order I I don't know

66:40

blanch but he has as George is

66:42

describing a really almost impossible

66:44

task I mean Donald Trump is any lawyer's

66:47

client from hell I mean he has a lot of

66:49

strong opinions he has a lot of wrong

66:51

opinions and neither of those attributes

66:54

lend themselves to helpful legal defense

66:56

which is why you see sooner or later

66:59

every lawyer or almost every lawyer

67:01

that's worked for Donald Trump seems to

67:02

be like a under indictment like Eastman

67:05

or Jeffrey Clark or Rudy Giuliani or

67:08

they quit I mean just today Steph

67:10

another Law Firm loka Hornick which had

67:12

represented Trump for a long time sought

67:15

to withdraw from their case you know

67:17

representing Trump earlier Joe teap did

67:20

I mean the list goes on and on

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العلامات ذات الصلة
Trump TrialHush MoneyCross-ExaminationGag OrderCourt ProceedingsLegal StrategyWitness TestimonyPolitical ImpactMedia CoverageLegal Contempt
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