“He’s Just A Big Fat LIAR!” Donald Trump Guilty | Piers Morgan Debate
Summary
TLDRIn a heated debate following former President Donald Trump's criminal conviction, panelists discussed its potential impact on the November election. They explored themes of political bias, public faith in the judicial system, and the implications of a sitting president facing criminal charges. The conversation highlighted the deepening polarization in American politics, the potential for retaliatory political prosecutions, and concerns over the country's democratic process. Amidst the turmoil, Trump's fundraising efforts saw a surge, reflecting continued support from his base.
Takeaways
- 😷 The discussion revolves around the criminal conviction of former President Donald Trump, marking the first time in American history a former president has faced such a situation.
- 🎉 Some individuals see the conviction as a reason to celebrate, viewing it as a sign of accountability and a blow to Trump's political aspirations.
- 👎 The trial and conviction are criticized by others as politically motivated, with claims that it was a 'rigged trial' and an example of the judicial system being used to target political opponents.
- 💰 There is speculation that the event could lead to increased fundraising for Trump's campaign, as supporters rally behind him in response to the conviction.
- 🤔 There is debate over whether the conviction will help or hurt Trump's chances in the upcoming election, with opinions divided on the potential impact on voters.
- 👨⚖️ The role of the Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg is highlighted, with his pursuit of the case being seen by some as politically motivated and by others as a duty to uphold the law.
- 🔍 The conversation touches on the potential for a double standard in the treatment of Trump compared to other political figures, such as Bill Clinton's past scandals.
- 📈 There is concern expressed about the long-term effects on the public's trust in institutions and the potential for further politicization of the legal system.
- 🚨 Warnings are given about the potential for increased violence and social unrest following the trial's outcome, especially in the context of the upcoming election.
- 💬 The debate underscores the deep divisions within the American public and the challenges faced in finding common ground or a return to civil discourse.
Q & A
What was the outcome of the trial for former President Donald Trump?
-Former President Donald Trump was found guilty on all counts by a jury of his peers, marking the first time in American history that a former president has been criminally convicted.
What was the public's reaction to the conviction of Donald Trump?
-The public reaction was mixed, with some celebrating the conviction and others expressing concern over the implications for the judicial system and the potential for political motivations behind the trial.
What are the potential consequences for Donald Trump's political future?
-The consequences for Trump's political future are uncertain. While the conviction could damage his reputation and support, it could also galvanize his base and potentially propel him back to the White House.
What was the nature of the charges against Donald Trump?
-The charges against Trump were related to falsifying business records in connection with payments made to a porn star to keep quiet about an alleged affair, which were characterized as campaign finance violations.
How did the panelists on the show view the trial and its potential impact on public trust?
-Panelists had differing views, with some suggesting that the trial could undermine public trust in the judicial system if perceived as politically motivated, while others argued that it demonstrated that no one, not even a former president, is above the law.
What was the role of Michael Cohen in the trial?
-Michael Cohen, a former attorney for Donald Trump and a convicted felon himself, was the star witness for the prosecution. However, his testimony was controversial due to his own criminal past and admitted dishonesty.
What are the implications of this trial for future political prosecutions?
-The trial could set a precedent for political prosecutions, potentially opening the door for similar legal actions against political opponents in the future, which some panelists argued could be damaging to the country's democratic processes.
How did the panelists discuss the comparison between Donald Trump's case and past presidential scandals?
-Some panelists pointed out that past presidents, such as Bill Clinton, faced scandals that were not treated as criminally as Trump's case, suggesting a double standard. Others countered that the nature of Trump's alleged crimes and the circumstances were different.
What was the public's view on the severity of the charges against Trump?
-According to the script, the public generally did not view the charges as severe or significant enough to warrant a criminal trial for a former president, indicating a potential backlash against the legal process.
What impact did the trial have on Donald Trump's fundraising efforts?
-The trial seemed to have a significant impact on Trump's fundraising, with reports suggesting a surge in donations, possibly reaching up to $40 million or $50 million in a short period after the verdict.
How did the panelists perceive the role of the media and public discourse in the aftermath of the trial?
-Panelists expressed concern over the toxic and divisive nature of the public discourse surrounding the trial, suggesting that it reflects and exacerbates deep divisions within American society.
Outlines
🏆 Trump's Criminal Conviction and its Implications
The panel discusses the monumental event of former President Donald Trump being convicted of a crime, marking the first time in American history for a former president. The conversation revolves around the potential impact this conviction might have on the upcoming November elections, with some suggesting it could galvanize Trump's base and others fearing it could undermine faith in the judicial system. The case's strength and the political motivations behind the charges are also debated, with some arguing that the charges are a politically motivated 'witch hunt' while others maintain that Trump's conviction is justified and indicative of a larger issue with corruption in politics.
📢 The Debate Over Trump's Legal and Political Future
Participants in the discussion analyze the potential outcomes of Trump's criminal conviction, including the possibility of him running for office again and the impact on his fundraising efforts. They also delve into the perceived double standards in the treatment of Trump compared to other political figures, such as Bill Clinton, and whether this selective prosecution could lead to further politicization of the legal system. The conversation touches on the reactions from Trump's supporters and detractors, as well as the broader implications for American democracy and the rule of law.
🎙️ Media Reactions and Public Sentiment Post-Trump Verdict
This section of the script focuses on the media's portrayal of Trump's conviction and the ensuing debate among pundits and the public. There's an exploration of the reactions from both sides of the political spectrum, with some celebrating the verdict as a victory for justice and others decrying it as politically motivated persecution. The discussion also includes commentary on the potential repercussions for the country's political climate and the upcoming elections, as well as the role of the media in shaping public opinion on such a divisive issue.
🤔 The Consequences of Political Prosecution
The panelists contemplate the broader consequences of politically motivated prosecutions, using Trump's case as a springboard to discuss the potential for tit-for-tat legal actions between political parties. They express concerns about the damage to the country's democratic institutions and the rule of law, as well as the potential for increased polarization and public distrust. The conversation also touches on the international implications of Trump's conviction and the global perception of American democracy.
🛡️ The Defense and Critique of the Trump Conviction
In this segment, the panelists engage in a heated debate over the legitimacy of Trump's conviction. Some argue that the charges were politically motivated and an overreach by the district attorney, while others maintain that the conviction is a necessary step in holding powerful individuals accountable for their actions. The discussion also includes an analysis of the potential impact on Trump's electoral prospects and the strategies that both Republicans and Democrats might employ in response to the verdict.
🔍 Dissecting Public Reactions and the Impact on Democracy
The conversation turns to the public's reaction to Trump's conviction and the potential long-term effects on American democracy. Panelists discuss the role of the media in shaping these reactions and the dangers of increasing political polarization. They also consider the potential for violence following the verdict and the importance of maintaining civil discourse and unity in the face of such divisive events.
👥 Panelists Share Personal Views on Trump's Conviction
Each panelist shares their personal views on Trump's conviction, with a range of opinions from support for the legal process to strong criticism of what they see as a politically biased trial. The discussion highlights the deeply divided nature of public opinion on this issue, with some panelists arguing that the conviction is a sign of a healthy democracy capable of holding even a former president accountable, while others see it as a sign of a broken system manipulated for political ends.
💸 Trump's Fundraising and the Role of Financial Contributions
The panel delves into the impact of Trump's conviction on his fundraising efforts, noting a significant surge in financial support following the verdict. They discuss the role of financial contributions in shaping political outcomes and the influence of donors on political parties. The conversation also touches on the potential for this financial backing to bolster Trump's electoral campaign and the strategies that might be employed by both Democrats and Republicans in response.
🎭 Theatrics of Politics and Public Perception
In this segment, the panelists discuss the theatrics involved in politics, particularly focusing on Trump's ability to command attention and the public's perception of his conviction. They explore the idea that Trump's portrayal as a political prisoner and martyr could influence voter behavior and contribute to his electability. The conversation also includes commentary on the role of personality and image in politics and the potential for this to overshadow substantive policy discussions.
🕊️ Calls for Unity and the Search for Civility
The final segment of the discussion centers on calls for unity and civility in the face of deep political divisions. Panelists express concern over the current state of American democracy and the need to find common ground and restore a sense of respect and decorum to political discourse. They emphasize the importance of focusing on issues that affect the day-to-day lives of citizens and the need for politicians to prioritize the interests of the people over personal or partisan agendas.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡convicted felon
💡judicial system
💡campaign finance violations
💡partisan
💡double standard
💡rigged trial
💡public faith
💡political prosecutions
💡elites
💡Trump's base
💡legal floodgates
💡presidency
💡MAGA
💡impeachment
💡pollster
💡electoral process
💡legal precedent
Highlights
Former President Donald Trump has become the first in American history to be criminally convicted, potentially impacting the upcoming November elections.
Trump's enemies are celebrating his conviction, while his supporters argue the trial was rigged and used to discredit him.
The trial's focus on a relatively minor offense has raised questions about the equality of justice under the law.
Concerns are expressed that this case could set a precedent for politically motivated prosecutions in the future.
The discussion highlights a potential loss of public faith in the American judicial system due to the perceived politicization of the trial.
The impact of the verdict on Trump's fundraising and public support is analyzed, suggesting it could galvanize his base.
Comparisons are made to Bill Clinton's case, pointing out a perceived double standard in the treatment of political figures by the justice system.
The debate over whether Trump's conviction will propel him back to the White House or damage his chances is explored.
Participants discuss the potential for increased violence and division following the trial's outcome.
The role of the media in shaping public opinion and the potential for sensationalism in coverage of the trial is critiqued.
Concerns are raised about the long-term damage to American democracy and the rule of law as a result of the trial.
The potential international implications of a convicted felon potentially returning to the presidency are considered.
The debate underscores the deep tribalism and toxicity in American politics, which may be exacerbated by the trial.
The discussion includes arguments about the focus on Trump's personal life versus his political actions and their impact on the country.
The potential for the trial to set a dangerous precedent for using the legal system to target political opponents is highlighted.
Participants reflect on the state of the American republic and the health of its democratic institutions.
The debate concludes with a somber outlook on the future of American unity and democracy, with a call for civility and unity.
Transcripts
former president Donald Trump is a
convicted felon those are the words
you're going to hear over and over again
between now and November's election he's
the first former president in American
history to be criminally convicted he
may soon be the first sitting president
in American history with a Criminal
conviction in no small part because of
what happened last night Trump's enemies
were of course quick to dance on his
legal grave Miracle is too strong a word
but a really a day for celebration your
defense was weak cuz you were weak they
had no argument because there is no
argument you were too scared to
testify because you knew
Donald you
know you're
guilty guilty is
sin Donald Trump is a felon Donald Trump
is a criminal Donald Trump may not vote
for himself Donald Trump may not own a
gun thank you do anything go going on
today well they might live to regret all
this gleed other side of looking in this
case was a mess the star witness Michael
coh admitted stealing thousands of
dollars from a trump organization during
his testimony a bigger offense than the
one that Trump was on trial for Cohen
himself is a convicted felon his
compulsive lies are a matter of public
record but the fact is that Trump was
found guilty on all counts by a jury of
his peers and now America has to face up
to the consequences and the biggest
casualty may be public faith in their
judicial system this time many people
will agree with the former president's
own
assessment this was a disgrace this was
a rigged trial by a conflicted judge who
was corrupt the real verdict is going to
be November 5th by the people and they
know what happened here and everybody
knows what happened here we didn't do a
thing wrong I'm a very innocent man our
whole country is is being rigged right
now this was done by the Biden
Administration well Donald Trump's
unfounded election deniles undermine the
American people's faith in the
Democratic process something I've
criticized him to his face for but the
harush money trial will be no different
and the scale of its impact on the
Public's trust in their institutions and
I suspect it'll be no less damaging this
verdict doesn't show that everyone's
equal under the law as many are now
arguing it shows that anybody even a
former president could be convicted for
a relatively trivial offense if the full
weight of the establishment is brought
to bear against them the prosecution had
to perform judicial gymnastics just to
make this a felony case the district
attorney Alvin Bragg is a car carrying
Democrat has made no secret of his
feelings about Donald Trump or his
desire to nail him legally and ask
yourself this would any other
businessman have found themselves in
court on felony charges for this if the
answer is no then self-evidently not
everyone is equal under the law this
could open the legal floodgates to
political prosecutions motivated by
revenge and Spite and plenty of the
Democrats now celebrating could soon
find the prison boot ends up on the
other foot I never thought I'd live to
see an American president convicted on
felony charges it's an extraordinary
moment in modern history but I always
imagined if it did happen then the case
might be about something like a deadly
illegal War an act of treason or
corruption on a grand scale in the end
it was nothing like that it was a
tortury overreach that designed to
humiliate and discredit a political
leader involving a payoff to a porn star
for an alleged one night stand 18 years
ago and for that they dragged an
American president through a criminal
court for two months when he should have
been campaigning for the election this
I'm afraid will go down as a sad and
shameful and frankly ridiculous day for
America well that's my view joining me
to discuss this is Young Turks founder
Chen Yuga commentator Vincent Ashana
former Republican Congressman George
Santos and host of The News ageny USA
podcast the gloriously veteran
journalist Emily ma well welcome to all
of you uh Emily I could see you nodding
furiously throughout my monologue there
so off you go um look my my view as I
said there is I think of all the four
cases that he was facing this was by far
the weakest I think it was a massive
stretch to try and turn it into a felony
and I think because of that because
Bragg is clearly such a partisan guy
that is playing right into Trump's hands
to play the Martyr and it will Galvanize
his base we saw last night that the
funding websites were literally breaking
down because people were donating so
much money could this not have the
complete opposite effect that at the
moment gleeful Democrats hope which is
that it might Propel him back to the
White
House yeah there's a lot to unake there
I think um starting with the end of
course it could Propel him back to the
White House and of course his
fundraising is likely to have gone up
through the roof skyrocketed since the
verdict came out I think I'd agree with
you that it's the weakest of the four
cases I think when we first heard the
charges from Alvin Bragg a lot of us
were kind of raising our eyes at the
number of them you know 34 it was
actually consistently the same charge
but brought on on sort of different
dates and I think that Still Remains it
is the weakest of the four charges but
it is still the one that was before the
courts and it is still the one that was
before the JW
and essentially you're giving us the New
York Post monologue Pier which I think
is that if you decide that the whole
thing is rigged which Trump has been
doing way way before these cases even
came to court way way before the 2020
election was fought he's used the word
rigged against him the whole time then
clearly you're just going to propel that
narrative to a place where you're
feeling happy with it I think that what
happened in the court yesterday was that
a jury who had been selected
independently gone through the ringer
pretty much to assert their nuances and
their leanings and all the rest of it
unanimously came to the conclusion that
with the evidence put before them
including documentary evidence he was
guilty of those charges now I think
America will decide what they do with
that but I think if you're going to
start undermining the rule of law you
set yourself against the American people
you set yourself against the people who
have decided that they want to believe
in the rule of law even yes even for
presidents okay CH yuger you were also
not nodding vigorously through my uh
monologue here's the point I would put
to you on the back of what Emily just
said you know I remember Bill Clinton
having sex with an intern in the Oval
Office while he was President I remember
him paying off another woman I think
$800,000 over harassment allegation she
made against
what I don't remember is Bill Clinton
despite all that ever appearing in a
courtroom uh and and being criminally
prosecuted and I think this is the
problem that Democrats are now going to
face which is the apparent obvious
double standard it's not to defend
anything that Trump has done it's simply
to say why is he the one who's been
singled out for this treatment given
that Bill Clinton and others on the
Democrat side were never treated this
way yeah piers I I I'm bilingual I speak
both populist and establishment so in
this case I think that both sides have a
point uh but often misstated so first of
all does the establishment Target people
that challenge its power yes it does so
it'll go against populace left and
populace right it'll try to do cancel
culture whenever it wants to Target
someone it'll dig and dig and dig so
I've been the victim of that a lot of
people have been the victim of that uh
but in my case for example they dug and
dug and found absolutely nothing so they
had to go to jokes from 19 years ago
jokes so that's when you know someone's
as clean as a whistle but the minute you
dig under Donald Trump just a giant
number of crimes spring up because he's
a lifelong con man and he's a lifelong
criminal so I think that what but at the
same time magot has an instinct that
isn't wrong so let me explain that
because the people in The Establishment
and Democrats can't understand this for
the life of them look guys and Maga gets
a part of it wrong too which is that
Donald Trump actually wasn't going to be
charged with any of this stuff as long
as he didn't run for president again
even though he did all of these crimes
taking those top secret documents home
is mental it's insane of course his
biggest crime is that he had the false
elector scheme to do a coup against
America and in this particular case did
he do this crime indisputably so that's
why it was so easy for the jury and you
mentioned that Michael con is a convict
felon yeah he was convicted for this
same exact crime they're co-conspirators
this is a serious case falsifying
business records Alvin brag has you
asked not answering you're not answering
my question which is why is it oneing
why is it one rule applied to Trump but
a very different set of rules applying
to Bill Clinton who committed what I
would argue far worse offenses frankly
than what Trump did in the Stormy
Daniels case no Pi's what you're
misunderstanding is that there's two
different sets of rules for the powerful
and the powerless so the powerless will
be convict will be tried on all these
crimes the powerful are never tried on
any of these crimes what Maga and you
are complaining about is oh my God
Donald Trump is being treated like a
normal person instead of one of the
elites if you're one of the
elites violations allow to break all
these laws is that's not what I'm
putting to you I'm putting to you that's
exactly what you're saying no I'm asking
you why Bill Clinton was never put
through a criminal court Minster given
what he did many would argue was
worse p no not even close to worse
that's PE having sex with an intern in
the overal office and then lying about
it to the American people paying off
paying off Paul Jones hundreds of
thousands of dollars to settle a
harassment case you don't think that's
at least bad close to Illegal Trump
trump had a one night stand with a 18
years ago who cares he wasn't running
for president then of course he was a he
was a business guy Piers you're not okay
listen back when Clinton uh was being
impeached Etc I was a republican but I
as always I was unbiased and I said what
do we we started on a real estate deal
it turns out he didn't do anything wrong
in the real estate deal now we're going
into his personal life and then you dig
and dig and oh well you did you you
didn't you denied the affair when you
actually had theair oh what was he going
to do admit it and I was like guys this
is a fishing Expedition but what I'm
trying to explain to you appears is that
if you go on a fishing Expedition on
Trump which I think they did they
weren't going to because he was one of
the elites they were going to merri
Garland protected him for two and a half
years the whole time I'm screaming will
you try him already he tried to cou you
idiot and he let him stay there for two
and a half years but when you go on to
fishing Expedition with Donald Trump you
come back with a lot of fish you come
back with whs trust me stop the law okay
but when you go on one with Bill Clinton
you catch a lot of fish too let's bring
in George Santos no you didn't no you
didn't you didn't F you didn't yes you
said that he oh he paid off Paula Jones
that's not a crime that's not even close
to a crime okay clearly not if you're a
Democrat that's just settling a case
okay so when Trump settles the case is a
crime when Bill Clinton does it's not
but that's not wait a minute even though
in Bill Clinton's case even though Bill
Clinton's case hang on even though Bill
Clinton's
case it was in Bill Clinton's case it
was for sexual harassment in Trump's
case it was simply a payoff to keep a
porn star quiet again I say that the
allegation was more
serious no listen you're wrong on the
facts settlement is not a crime uh even
sexual is not a crime you could just you
could say it's terrible it's not a crime
so in the case of Donald Trump
falsifying business records is
definitely a crime 34 other people went
to jail for it under Alvin Bragg so why
should Donald Trump be above the law
appears you're literally saying be even
if you were right and Bill Clinton was
quote unquote Above the Law you're
saying well Donald Trump should be above
the law he should be able to break any
law he likes because he's one of the
elites okay I'm going to come to George
Santos I don't think it serves the
American national interest to see a
president one of the 46 people to hold
this incredible office dragged through a
criminal court over something so
comparatively trivial that would
normally just be a state misdemeanor and
has been trumped up to be this huge
felony uh and it's a deliberate attempt
to stop Trump winning the election I
mean it plays right well you agree that
his other let bring let me bring in how
about a coup is that a bad enough crime
a coup he's facing other charges which
in my view are more serious George
Santos your response to all
this well look Pierce it's it's very
clear this is nothing much nothing more
than a misdemeanor uh type uh of of a
case they had to trump it up no pun
intended in order to even bring the case
to create relevancy I've heard and we've
heard from pundits on both the left and
the right for the last two months that
this was the weakest the most full of
flaws the fact that the process alone
that the judge set forward was so
convoluted we still don't know what
crimes president Trump is found guilty
of and he's convicted so the the reality
of the case is it's it it's it's no we
don't not per se it's and it's falling
it's going to fall apart in appeals and
we all know that but here's the reality
America today doesn't have the moral
ground to talk about Venezuela to talk
about uh Russia and Putin because we're
doing the same thing we're per
persecuting our political opponents next
step is we're going to start killing
them because the reality is what took
place the one thing well the one thing I
would saying the one guaranteed thing
and I'll bring in uh uh Vincent here the
one guaranteed thing is that now The
Benchmark has been set by the Democrats
to politically prosecute well Joe Biden
better buckle up because be ride I'm
about to say that is that now they set
the president for doing this you don't
think the Republicans are going to do
exactly the same thing to the Democrats
of course they are and that's why I say
it's not in America National interest
wait a second wait a second George
Santos is talking about moral ground I
think I'm going insane here the man who
just got expelled from Congress for
lying repeatedly lying you're trying to
tell us what the moral High Ground is
here I think George honestly here here's
the difference you creation well well I
I don't first of all start this way I
don't care what you think but I'll say
this my expulsion from Congress was
arbitrary in its nature right because if
you look at the process it was also
skewed but I'm not g to I'm not here to
debate that I'm here to debate president
Trump now if you want if you want to
talk about moral ground and if you want
to give your opinion I didn't come on
the panel to hear your opinion no I'm
just saying this is how it starts I
think George you're probably like the
son of the air to Trump trump goes
forward he shows people what he can do
he gets away with it then the next thing
you know the legislators are coming in
they make up CVS they lie to death they
just sit it out they then turn it into a
movie you are a creation of Donald Trump
it seems to me really obvious that this
is I would argue I would argue that Joe
Biden Joe Biden is the creation of lying
in politics Joe Biden is top top of his
class in law school Joe Biden had to
drop out of an entire presidential run
for plagiarizing I mean come on you
can't make that argument then ignore Joe
Biden the sitting president of the
United States who is the lying commander
and chief okay let me bring in the
biggest liar to ever be president of the
United States thank you Joel just bring
in Vincent You' be waiting patiently
Vincent your view of all
this patiently but uh I'm imploding
inside because of hearing all this
freaking nonsense like as I was as I'm
in here in this van uh peers I'm
picturing Lady Justice and I want to
believe that she's still Standing Tall
in the greatest country in the world but
yesterday her blindfold was ripped off
her her scales were tipped and the snake
at her feet one okay this wasn't
humiliation as much as chank and whoever
that lady is wants to talk crap about
he's not humiliated he has the toughest
skin out of anybody that I've ever seen
as a president cuz he's a New Yorker and
guess what he he doesn't give two damps
you know who was embarrassed you know
who was embarrassed the country okay but
but you know what appears nobody's
asking why why since the day this man
announced that he was going to run the
left everybody the swamp all these deep
State they all turned on him everybody
you know from from the from the doj
Obama with the with spying on his
campaign from Hillary with 2016 with her
uh BS dossier with the russan collusion
the two fake impeachments the January 6
setup Chen you in this coup BS that you
keep spewing with all the FBI agents in
the crowd inside the capital you're
talking nonsense Chen okay and then now
this lawfare it's ridiculous okay it's
humiliating to the world and I want to
say uh Donald Trump in 2024 I can't wait
okay I cannot wait for him to come in
and 202 that that November is going to
be a that from Day One A Day of
Reckoning and I hope he comes after all
the Democrats because by by the way
Hillary Clinton and you mentioned Bill
Clinton rape sex allegations rape
Hillary with her emails Benghazi how
many charges how many trials Piers zero
well well that is the point I've been
trying to well okay I was actually going
to ask Emily Emily quickly on that point
because you read a powerful column today
about how the women have all shown
themselves to be very strong wrong with
Trump and the men had been spineless all
around him uh which is a perfectly
reasonable argument to make but again
that point which the Republicans keep
making the double standard when it's
applied to Bill Clinton in relation to
Trump you know when you have a a
president an actual sitting president
who had sex with an intern in the Oval
Office and then lied to the American
people and paid off a woman for sexual
harassment hundreds of thousands of
dollars but was never brought to any
accountability in a criminal court for
any of that a lot of Republicans say
well hang on why not why why has Trump
been singled out for what in the end is
just a similar version to what uh Bill
Clinton did it's a payoff to someone to
get rid of a story you don't like yeah
okay so the Trump conviction was not
about the payoff and it was not about
the sex and it was not actually about
the women it was about the falsification
of campaign funds it was falsifying his
business deals you can make of that what
you will and actually I think I would
feel uh very similar thoughts
if Bill Clinton's case were around today
and we were discussing that but I think
that you're wrong to say that this is a
republican talking point because the
Republican talking points have really
been set in stone for the last what four
years we were hearing from Donald Trump
in I remember August September of 2020
that the election was riged that was
before anyone had been out to vote he
was already imagining that he would lose
an election he was preparing to tell the
world that the thing that he would was
going to lose was rigged so it wouldn't
sound as bad for him he's just a big fat
liar and a loser and it's really sad to
hear people four years on still with the
same
narrative I'm sorry Emily Emily you
don't get not say that in
August he did he did he went on Emily
where do you live Emily where do you
live before he went Emily I'm just
curious where do you live right now
clearly not paying I'm very
curious Emily very curious where do you
live right now where do you live are are
you coming for me I I I live in the UK
no no I'm asking you no hey I'm asking
you where you live cuz if you live in
the United States of America this past
four years has been a complete show
okay Trump can do grab him by the V
whatever the hell I would much rather
have the mean guy with the Mean Tweets
and kicking kicking ass economy Clos
border than what's happening right now I
don't care about this stupid porn star
for for 20 years ago it's about America
and people like you and people like CH
are just butt hurt cuz you guys hate
Donald Trump you hate him cuz he loves
America get over it okay we have two
case studies Donald Trump Donald Trump
for four years Joe Biden for four years
you guys are delusional if you want Joe
Biden
allusional okay hang on hang on hang on
we've been joined by the eminent
pollster Frank Lans Frank you've been
thank you for joining me in the studio
here um things getting a little heated
as they often do let me just ask you on
a strict polling
perspective what has been the kind of
instant Fallout from all this I mean has
there been an impact either way for
Trump's chances of winning the
presidency we did two focus groups last
night but I need to preface it I don't
know if this makes you proud I'm
watching them yell at each other and act
like idiots all sides I know that the
American people are more divided than
they've ever been I actually care about
this you're both British and American in
what you do
God help the British if they become like
the Americans you think that the average
American looking at this would be proud
I actually think the whole debate around
Donald Trump has become a bit like the
brexit debate in the UK so toxic and so
tribal and so many people just lose
their minds when talking about Trump and
that's why I always try and bring it
back to if I can a sense of perspective
and fairness which is has he been
treated how other presidents have been
treated for their own situations like
Bill Clinton with Paula Jones the payoff
with monik Lewinsky and so on so the
question there is in asking the
undecided the swing voters people who
vote Democrat and Republican first they
do not believe these charges should have
been brought they don't think this is a
big deal the other cases are significant
this one is not second they think Trump
was guilty of this the public does think
that Trump was wrong third is that
nobody wants him to go to jail over this
they don't want him him this is why the
American people want to change in who
the nominee is they look at one
candidate and they say my God he's so
old they look at the other candidate and
they think my God he's so dishonest and
that's why over 70% of Americans don't
want this matchup the truth is both
sides Democrats and Republicans are
trying to defend something that the
American people don't want and as
someone you and I have had a few
conversations like this this used to
break my heart now it's say to them cut
I'm not going to even say shut up
because then I'm playing their game cut
it out the damage that this is doing to
the Democracy to the belief that
democracy doesn't work that no one's
listening that they'd rather have a food
fight than actually get something done
in the end inflation is more important
than this trial immigration is more
important on the Democratic side
abortion is more important and healthc
Care is more important we're having this
shouting match this food fight when in
fact Americans believe that Washington
doesn't get anything done should he have
been prosecuted for this offense they
don't think so I can't answer that
because I'm a pollster I can tell you
what the impact is and it is awful and
if you love your country as these people
say that they do they'll stop behaving
this way it really is that bad has it
improved or diminished his chances of
winning this uh it well it's raised him
more money in one day than any before
and his base is even stronger here's the
problem the public is afraid that it's
now made it more likely that after the
next debate or the next trial we're
going to see violence the public now
believes that it's less likely that we
will come together when the election is
over PE this stuff matters we are at the
precipice of blowing ourselves up we can
replay this whole thing right now six
months from now and say my God we saw it
happening and we didn't do anything to
stop it you're the only one who has an
American and a British audience an
American and a British sensibility I
know this is good for Ratings I know
that people get a kick out of this it's
entertaining but I'll tell you guys
something right now you continue to
behave that way making faces insulting
each other you're destroying the tenants
of democracy and we have to stop well
let me ask the panel um let's get them
back up and let's get their reaction to
that uh Chen you guys are all part of
the problem
yeah yeah so look I I actually agree and
disagree so when Frank says uh that hey
70% of Americans don't want either one
of these candidates I totally agree I'm
with the American people so when George
Santos says that Joe Biden's a liar he's
right that's one of the rare thing he's
right about Joe Biden's a huge liar he
lied about getting arrested with Nelson
Mandela fighting a partti that is a
giant giant lie let alone the fact that
almost all of our politicians are liars
the reality is they take campaign
contributions and then they do exactly
what their donors tell them corporate
Democrats and corporate Republicans so
that's why I'm a populist I agree with
the American people but on the other
hand here's where Frank is wrong so
brother what do you want me to do these
guys come on and they say absurd things
like oh it's okay to invade the capital
it's it's Trump has thick skin what do
you he's the he has the thinnest skin
I've ever seen he's a little child Trump
breaks law after law he used to hire
undocumented immigrants he's cheated and
lied throughout entire life so what do
you want me to do not fight back and
just go oh you're right everybody is bad
so Trump should be allowed to break all
the laws okay your point is a good one
because George is just going to sit and
talk over you and I know that you can't
get heard but the better approach to
this and we've tested this is literally
silence now Pierce will be upset because
that doesn't get ratings but everyone
knows what George's background is it's a
fair comment to say that he was
literally tossed out of Congress but why
do you respond in kind just because he's
going to yell over you and the gentleman
with a tie I saw you making those faces
and waving your hands and all that would
you exactly would you want your kids to
behave that way would you feel good hold
on second but well first of all first of
all I don't know who the who this
pollster is but I'm going to say
something right now well he's one of the
best in the world you call me an idiot
for yeah well he yeah he he loves his
polls they always work but uh for
somebody that doesn't know me to call me
an idiot this is coming from a guy that
dyed his hair and it doesn't even match
his beard so let's not let's not start
insulting each other United States
literally you literally just Prov I'm
just going to make a
point talk over each other you want to
call me an idiot you want you hold on
you don't know me you don't know me you
call me an idiot so now just like with
Trump everybody you guys can talk all
the you want to Trump but Trump
can't fight back cuz that's what you
want you want silence we're not going to
be silenced anymore I'm a United States
Air Force veteran my parents are legal
immigrants my brothers a veteran my
sister's a veteran we are sick and tired
of staying on the sidelines and just
being nice enough is enough with people
like you just sit there and let the left
get away with murder to hell with that
to hell that let me bring
inod I'm just going to go hang on George
hang on I want to bring in Michael
vanine been waiting patiently who is one
of Donald Trump's former lawyers and has
actually in illegal action against
Donald Trump so been on both sides of
the fense with him uh let me ask you uh
Michael vanderin first of all are there
grounds for appeal here people say this
will definitely go to appeal and Trump
May well have all this turned over is
that
likely uh well it's very likely that an
appeal is going to be filed um in almost
every criminal prosecution in the United
States if there's a finding guilty an
appeal is filed um the likelihood of
success of the appeal uh is is a
different matter I think there are some
uh legitimate and righteous uh grounds
for appeal here he wasn't allowed to use
uh the um uh professional advice defense
I think there were some difficulties
with the injury instruction I you know
as far as change of venue and
veneer it's not a Manhattan isn't a
cross-section of um of all of New York
City it's it's it's that it's one of the
five burrows uh and uh you know we did
polling uh for the jury poll and the
trial that we did and um you know eight
and a half out of 10 had very strong
negative opinions about the president
and the other one and a half just didn't
like him right so you know
it and it's the kind it's the kind of
pool that you know really a court should
consider changing the venue or changing
the veneer when you change a venue you
actually take the case and move it to
another jurisdiction change the veneer
you take people from another
jurisdiction and bring them into that
Courthouse I it seems to something that
probably it seems to me there there are
two real I think questions here one is
whether the verdict was correct from a
legal standpoint and secondly whether it
reaches the bar which legitimizes taking
an American president through a criminal
prosecution like this with all the
humiliation that followed and with the
fact it suspended his own ability to
campaign for the election in November
which if Trump ends up losing that he we
know what he'll do he'll just say well
this is why there was a deliberate
attempt once again he'll say to stop me
winning
in you know I've been watching the show
the last uh 30 minutes or so when I was
waiting to come on and and I understand
your point about you know this is kind
of a small potatoes for somebody who is
so impactful on the country uh and is
really in the middle of a historic
election um but you know Justice she's
blind and Lady Justice is blind um and
the the prosecution brought was
political that's just that's but that
but that's my point that that's not
Justice being blind is Justice being
partisan right and that's the problem
you have a Democrat appointed guy in
brag and he's brought this prosecution
having already said I want to nail Trump
legally and at the end of the day I just
don't think this is a big enough thing
to have dragged a president through this
humiliating process and I just think
it's going to fuel all Trump's martydom
it's what he does best I agree with I
agree with all of that I agree with you
100% um but but the fact is Justice
isn't the
prosecution Justice is the process and
the result um I think that this uh
process has appealable issues um but I
think the jury you know their bias is
aside I think when jurors go go into the
Jury Room I really think they try to be
as impartial as they can a lot of us
can't overcome our partialities but they
try to do the best job they can in there
the the the the the appeal really isn't
in what the jury did it's in what the
prosecutors did uh and um rulings that
the judge made uh they're probably uh
very solid appeal grounds there um on
the on the issues that I highlighted um
and and I don't think that'll be decided
before November let me ask you just from
a legal point of view where does this
leave Donald Trump to be a convicted
felon for felonies of this nature in
other words is he allowed to fly out of
the country is he allowed to vote things
like
that he is you know first of all um his
case isn't over his conviction is not
final because he hasn't been sentenced
um but uh so from now until July 11 you
know he's out on a bond he can go
anywhere he wants he can do anything he
wants really he only condition is that
he not commit a crime or have contact
with the law um he can go out of the
country if he wants after he after the
sentencing he'll be considered convicted
uh his case will then be
in well um what do I think no no no if
he is convicted right if sentenced I
mean if he's sentenced uh and is then a
convicted felon and whether he goes to
jail or not he's now sentenced is he
then able to fly like because I've read
on social media that he may have
restrictions you know it's interesting
um
Piers probably the courts here would not
restrict him from going out of the
country but countries that he wants to
go to um may not receive them and you
know in Canada if you have a just a
driving under the DUI in the United
States Canada won't let you in right uh
so so being a convicted and that's a
misdemeanor being convicted of a felony
um you know there are going to be a
number of countries that are going to uh
uh say he may not be allowed in or he's
going to have to go through a process to
to get in right um that that's just
that's just Frank you want to jump hang
on one second Michael yeah because it's
not that it's been politicized and the
public does believe that what they're
upset over is that they believe it's
been weaponized and it's that
weaponization the idea that you can't
get a fair trial or that the Justice
weaponized for political purpose exactly
yeah but the fact that they that you can
now use it to punish your enemies yes
God help Hunter Biden right now well
that's that's what I see is the major
problem here by choosing something so
relatively trivial to take a massive
Mallet to smash someone over head with
for stealing a carrot right what you're
basically going to end up with is tit
forat going on now for a long time and
increasingly damaging I think to America
its National interest and the respect
for the judicial process so the key
element is consequences what are the
consequences and no one's thinking about
that they think of what they say they
don't think of what comes back to them
and that's a real danger for our
democracy right now yeah um Michael just
is he going to get a prison sentence
here what's the
likelihood I I I I don't see that
happening at all I think it's a it's the
lowest class felony in New York but they
call a Class E felony um typically uh he
would get probation if he was treated
like anybody else I think um uh that
uh a sentence of incarceration would
clearly be appealable um and uh he's
likely he's likely to get probation but
to be clear under under the surprised if
he did right but under the US
Constitution he is able to continue
running for president and be president
even if he was sent to
prison absolutely that's that's
absolutely our constitution uh we've had
uh in our history um people elected to
congress
uh from prison and serve in Congress
from prison but we never had the
situation of course in the executive
office um but Pierce you know I want to
say you're absolutely right you know
this is this is political we're seeing
in our country right now A Tit for Tat
um it it it's really hurting the
foundations of our country and you know
uh frankly Washington's broken right now
the I was down there in the Senate with
aund all hundred of them uh and you know
they really need to start focusing on
representing the people who put them
there rather than their own interests
and their own platforms right and
everything else you know the American
people uh deserve but our country needs
a lot better than we're getting right
now well I Fe this is going to this has
just thrown a bunch of fuel on the on
the fire I'm afraid Michael vanine thank
you very much indeed let's go back to
the panel uh I mean CH this is my
concern about this is that it is
absolutely inevitable that the
Republicans and are going to try and do
this to Democrats to Democrat presidents
to whoever can get their hands on for
Retribution how does any of this help
America I mean looking at this from
across the pond I think everyone's lost
their minds in America to to do this
like I say over something so relatively
trivial to take it to the place where a
president sits there in a election year
for two months listening to tauy details
of a one night stand with a porn star it
just simp to me the bigger picture here
has been completely
overrun yeah listen you know I'm a rare
guy who's on the Democratic side who
understands all the things that you guys
are saying but I think you're wrong on a
couple of critical elements first of all
the powerful have been doing this for a
long time in targeting people so for
example Elliot Spitzer was the sheriff
of Wall Street he was actually taking on
the big Banks and trying to protect the
average American so what did they do
they targeted him there's a whole movie
about it they admitted they brag about
it they said oh we're going to try to
get him on anything and so they targeted
him and they found him in his case with
a prostitute and then they embarrassed
him and got him out of office so this is
something that the powerful have been
doing for a long time but the critical
thing that you guys are missing is the
powerful were actually protecting Donald
Trump for two and a half years when he's
actually broken countless laws I mean
the fake university did he ran he paid a
$25 million fine but he could have been
brought up on criminal charges on that
he could have been brought up on
criminal charges on his charity but they
protected him because he was one of the
elites and yes you guys are right the
establishment doesn't like him so two
and a half years in when they finally
realize he's going to run again they
brought up these charges but the reality
is they should have brought up the
charges earlier because he did do these
crimes that's why he was convicted you
guys can say hey I hate the system and
I'll agree with you and I'll hate the
way that the powerful Target uh people
that are not in favor of the
establishment and I agree with you but
don't defend a guy who's an obvious con
man and an obvious criminal why don't
you pick someone who's anywhere near
clean so that you could have the moral
High but they didn't do that look magga
is not wrong about how corrupt this
system is they're taking millions of
dollars from donors and doing exactly
what the donors want but you're wrong in
that you picked a guy who's running a
three card Monty scam on you it's so
obvious as a person who's a fellow
populist I'm trying to stop you from
losing your money losing your mind on
the wrong guy yes but the focus is not
about criminality the focus is how do we
afford housing and healthare how do we
afford food and fuel fuel how do we get
control of our border how do we make
sure that women have the right to choose
how do we do these issues that affect
people in their day-to-day lives yelling
about this doesn't fix anything and it's
why the public hates Washington hates
Congress hates the elected officials now
hates the Supreme Court they're asking
for results they're asking for getting
things done and they're not seeing it
because of debates like this okay George
Santos um Donald Trump Jr tweeted the
left is Will to destroy our Republic to
stop Trump and keep their power on
November the 5th let show them we won't
let them get away with it Michael Cohen
today's an important day for
accountability and the rule of law while
it's always been a difficult Journey for
me and my family the truth always
matters and Anthony scaramucci think
about the moral cowards in the
Republican party we know the GOP elected
leaders hate Trump yet they will C out a
convicted felon under the ruse or
something wrong with our system um so
you know there a lot of views on all
sides here it's just to me all it's done
is cement the
polarization it has whipped up the
tribes it's made the toxicity even more
extreme and as we've seen throughout the
year the more that people have come
after Trump legally the more powerful he
has seemed to get in terms of his
electability I'm going to have to
concede and agree with Frank Frank's a
talented pollster he knows what he's
doing he's been doing it for many years
uh despite his opinion of me I don't I
really don't care but I'll always defer
to him he understands the pulse of how
this is going to affect it doesn't
affect me as a voter I know it's not
going to affect the base as a voter but
the concern that we have is with that
big middle of America and politics is a
zero sum game if you're losing or losing
there's no way you can change that so
this does impact in a way your middleof
the Road Independence moderates it this
is this is definitely going to be an
impact and we need to measure this and
see how how much it's going to impact
but I also see a lot of Americans
looking at this and saying wow the
weaponization of government has become
so outrageous that not even a former
president is being spared so there's two
sides to that coin obviously I'm not
going to pretend here to be a pollster
Frank does that for a living I I'll
defer it to him but the reality is what
happened to Donald Trump is absolutely
Unbecoming of the process all right V
Vincent let me ask you is there anything
Trump could do that would Dent your
support for him Ian he joked about being
able to shoot someone on fth Avenue and
get away with it is is there anything he
could do because many people think that
to Maga supporters there is nothing he
could do that would Dent that
support and and and and that's and there
and and thanks for ask thanks for the
question Piers there's a misconception
the whole covid warp speed everything I
I'm not a fan of it rushing the vaccine
not a fan of it saying he was going to
close the border didn't do it I'm a I'm
a hard critic but for Chen and everybody
that voted for Biden with everything
that you're complaining complaining
about Trump would you rather have the
policies and where we were four years
ago or what is happening right now and
you can't compare it and this is the
this is their game plan peers you know
what they do they go they try to kill
and destroy your reputation then they go
after your money they've done that
there's only one other option uh piers
and that's the biggest fear that I have
the only other option is to get rid of
them if this was November 1963 guess
what you don't think they would have
tried to take Trump out you know I mean
you know why they can't Piers because
everybody has a everybody's Rec and the
world is watching it's not just one
camera and it's a Pruder okay this guy
loves America he's been saying it since
the 70s I don't understand what what
people don't understand since the 70s on
Oprah on Larry King Donald Trump I love
America everybody's crapping on our
country from China and everybody I want
to put us first they hate him uh peers
because he loves the country plain and
simple like CH do you want to go back
like which one would you rather live
in are you happy with where we are now I
would also change a different a
different type of question which is
what's extraordinary is that you've had
Trump facing nearly a 100 criminal
charges this year and yet his poll
numbers against Biden get stronger and
stronger and he's now ahead in many
swing states to the extent that the
Democrats separate to all this have been
panicking there was a big piece I think
in axio one of those sites this week
about the internal Panic going on by the
Democrats that they just don't think
they can beat Trump and if I was a
Democrat I'd be pretty concerned that
having seen the scenes last night night
having seen the strength of the reaction
the galvanization of Trump's support and
the extraordinary fundraising that was
going on I would be thinking that these
poll numbers are probably going to get
worse uh against Biden not better
because of this which makes no actual
sense other than he is the master Marty
victimhood uh political
exponent yeah so uh I think the
Democrats and Republicans are wrong but
in different ways so the you you make a
good point in that the Democrats have
just two game plans right one is call
Donald Trump a criminal and the other is
call Donald Trump a racist sexist and
all sorts of uh mean names I got it in
my opinion he is those things but is
that a right way to win the election no
why don't you try doing something for
the American people I know that comes as
a shock to establishment Democrats like
like but wait we have to serve our
donors First Look if he if Biden had
passed anything Jesus public option
universal healthcare he didn't even
propose it do the simplest little things
like make marijuana legal these are all
layups overwhelming support for so many
of these things paid family leave but
the Democrats want to serve their donors
so they don't do the things that would
actually make them popular instead all
they want to do is attack Trump on the
other hand the Republicans are wrong in
that they think oh my God Donald Trump
is this special little victim lifelong
criminal peers you know that he cheated
and led and never pays anyone back he
six bankruptcies why he's like well I'm
not a sucker well they gave me the money
I'm going to keep it I'm not gonna pay
it back he he's a con man and everyone
outside of magga knows it pick a
different guy and I say the same thing
to the Democrats Joe Biden is a feeble
old man he didn't do any of these things
that he uh promised yeah I know he
passed some laws but again the donors
benefited the most so they're both wrong
the the reality is can someone please
serve the American people Donald Trump
Vincent he's not in he's not on your
side he says oh I'm for America he's
only for himself and then he says let's
rip up the Constitution and the
Constitution shouldn't apply I should be
dictator he says all these crazy things
because Donald Trump only cares about
one man himself Democrats please wake up
and serve the American people so you
could beat this monster but if all you
do is that he say he's a bad guy it's
not enough to win this election that's
why they're losing okay let's just have
a little bit of light relief for a few
seconds this is just some of the
reaction from the memes and the late
night shows to what's been going down in
the last 24
hours I paid push money cuz I've had a
lot of fun I fought the law and the the
law one I'll be taking naps until it's
it's all done I fought the law and the
the law one somehow I'm still allowed to
run I fought the law and the the laws
won and I fought the law and the the law
one take me home Mommy this is too tough
for
me now see we're laughing right because
I find that funny I can I can laugh on
all sides of this but of course there
will be Maga supporters who find that
incredibly offensive and there will be
people who hate Trump who think it's
hilariously funny but ultimately where
does this leave the country we have a
problem the both Sid created and neither
side's willing to do anything about it
which is the debt we're going to have an
explosion and it's going to happen the
next year or two we do not have the
money to pay our bills we're promising
we're spending so much right now you can
blame Trump you can blame Biden but we
don't have the ability to solve it and
we don't have any cooperation between
senators and congressmen between
Republicans and Democrats progressives
and conservatives and it's going to
wreck us so I appreciate that I thought
that was funny yeah I thought it was a
good song yeah I'm gonna steal it from
my speeches I should pay you a
royalty but it it it glosses over
something that's really serious we are
mortgaging our kids Futures we're doing
real damage to them and it's getting to
the point where we cannot reverse it
we're going too far Benny let me bring
you back in here the I mean look there's
a lot of people thoroughly reving in
what happened to Trump um but I also see
his base getting very fired up and the
money pouring in you know is this one of
those situations where okay it's it's
bad news if you support Trump but it
might end up being good
news I mean I mean Trump uh last night
Piers uh we did an emergency we did an
emergency podcast we had 66,000 people
watching live it was the most watched uh
live YouTube in the world on the pbd
podcast and we tried to go on the
website all of Trump's websites crashed
because everybody left right Democrat
Republican gay everybody in their mother
was donating to this man because they
know what is going on and let me remind
you uh Piers you remember truck Schumer
back in the day when he warned Trump
about the intelligence Community they
got six ways to Sunday to come after you
this was complete proof besides the
intelligence agency everybody the judges
the courts everybody it's just it's just
it's a really really sad moment in
America and and when I get angry peers I
think and people are like what why are
you so upset I think the problem is
there's not enough people getting upset
I'm sick and tired of people standing on
the sideline just watching as a country
goes down the I and I hear this
guy's you know warnings of the economy
and everything all this all this stuff
is coming everything that's happened in
this past uh couple years with Trump
it's unbelievable and I get it Chen I I
respect the fact that you just hate the
guy but talk about the country the state
of the country it's undeniable I'm not
one of these blind Mega hat wor no no
it's just facts are facts and he we were
way better off what no wars in the
Middle East no Wars the economy was
booming the Border was closed now we
have terrorists coming in who warn us on
camera remember that terrorist that came
over Piers he goes one day you going to
know who my what my name is there that
explosion of the economy there's going
to be other explosions there's going to
be a mad th this next coming year it's
only gonna get worse you wait and see
let me bring in John Bolton the former
United States ambassador to the UN and
United States national security advisor
under Trump from 2018 to 19 uh John B
thank you for joining me first of all
your reaction to the conviction of of
the first conviction of any American
president in
history well it's uh it's obviously uh
one of the most unhappy historical
events we've had in a long time there
there's a lot uh that can be said in in
criticize criticism of this uh whole
trial uh I said the day this indictment
came down that uh if Trump won in
November it could be because of this
indictment but the fact is now you've
had uh 12 ordinary citizens nobody can
say they're part of the deep State uh
who found Trump guilty and I think that
uh it's certainly the case that the
immediate reaction is to fire up Trump's
base of course the campaign was ready
for that and uh was an entirely
spontaneous combustion the question for
November is whether non-trump based
people Republicans Democrat rats uh
Independence uh care enough about not
electing a convicted felon uh to the
presidency not to vote for him and we
just don't know the answer to that
question and anybody who says they know
the answer uh uh is is really making it
up because we're in totally Uncharted
Territory there's a quote from Victor
Alburn of course president of Hungary
I've known president Trump to be a man
of Honor as president he always put
America first he commanded respect
around the world and used his respect to
build peace let the people make their
verdict this November keep on fighting
Mr President there will be a lot of
support from him around the world and
there'll be a lot of people who will be
not feeling very good about the fact
that the next president may be a
convicted felon from an international
perspective how do you think this will
play out if Trump was to win well I
think uh internationally if I were in
the Kremlin or if I were in Beijing uh
I'd very much want Trump to win because
uh they think he's such an easy Mark uh
and this this may in fact make him
easier uh because a lot of people will
be convinced that uh that this trial was
legitimate maybe some of the others will
be too uh and and that that will inhibit
him from uh from really being able to
act effectively we we we just don't know
at this point should it have been broad
at all this case given the relative
triviality of It ultimately it's about
paying hush money to a porn star for an
alleged one night stand near 20 years
ago when he was a TV star are in real
estate magd not a politician um if the
bar is set that low for dragging an
American president through a criminal
prosecution and make him sit in the
courtroom for two months inevitably
Republicans are going going to want to
return the favor and do this to the
Democrats how does any of that going
forward help
America well the the crime that he the
underlying crime is cooking the books of
his company right that that is the
financial fraud involved uh to me that
is a state misdemeanor isn't it I mean
really I mean you could construct an
argument for example when Bill Clinton
paid off Paula Jones over sexual
harassment allegations he's doing that
to protect his his reputation that could
have a material effect on an election I
mean once you take that argument you
pretty much you're confusing you're
confusing crimes together you're
confusing crimes I'm saying that when
point I want to make if you if you pay
people off can I can I make my point
it's not the yeah here well why don't I
hang on I've been waiting for 40 minutes
to get on here you know what this shows
is not the criminal conviction point but
the lack of character Point uh I don't
think there are many American voters who
have ever even seen a porn star in
person let alone slept with them let
alone paid hush money and I think when
they think of their children and
grandchildren this is not the model they
want for the generations coming along
that is the impact quite apart from the
conviction of having this sleazy todry
lifestyle of Donald Trump out there in
front of the American people and do you
think that having sex with an intern in
the Oval Office and paying off a woman
who accused you of sexual harassment is
that any
better of course not what a silly
question well Bill Clinton was never
prosecuted for any of
that yeah look he was he was also
impeached and they failed get a
conviction he wasn't put through a
criminal he wasn't put put through a
criminal trial that's my point and
that's where the double standard is what
too bad so look there are plenty of
double standards out there you know
there's an interesting question of
democratic theory the district attorney
in Manhattan is elected and he
campaigned Alvin brag campaigned that he
was going to get Trump and the people of
New York elected him they gave him a
mandate to do it if you believe in
democratic theory you know if you don't
I understand well yeah look a Democrat
City appointed a Democrat guy to take
down Trump in a court that was probably
dominated by Democrat thinking the
democratic theory point the Democrat
Theory Point hasn't nothing to do with
Democrats or Republicans conservative or
labor has to do with the voice of the
people speaking uh and they did speak
and and they elected this guy but you
know a lot of the critics of this
decision have challenged uh the jury's
objectivity and and this is a very
serious matter because there are many
kinds of biases that juries all across
the country could display ethnic racial
bias uh gender bias political bias
religious bias every jury in America in
every criminal case is told put your
personal feelings aside judge on the
basis of the facts that you see reported
in court and the laws the court
instructs you and if you don't believe
that system works then you don't believe
in the jury system and that's what
Trump's supporters are attacking here
with no evidence all right John B thank
you very much indeed for joining me go
back to the the panel there I mean Chen
I look it's all been a very interesting
debate I'm not entirely sure it will
move the needle very much I think pretty
much everything here was baked in it's
really a question of well I think for
both parties for the Republicans do you
continue to stand by Trump do verify his
nomination later in the summer and pin
all your hopes on this guy uh and if
you're the Democrats do you think that
given how wounded your opponent is is
Joe Biden the right guy to back there I
mean it seems to me both parties have a
pretty big decision to
take yeah so listen I the Paulo Jones
Point you're making drives me crazy so
let me address that real quick and then
I'm going to say that answer to that
question Paula Jones was a lawsuit it
was settled there was no hiding the
money and paying through Michael Coen or
someone else yeah that but that's a
normal
settlement a campaign Finance viol
here's he didn't do a campaign Finance
violation and he didn't do business if
you're saying hold on the if you're
saying but if you're saying it's they
were both immoral sure of course I don't
care and by the way I also don't care
about their immorality I don't care that
Donald Trump slept with a porn star at
all that's his personal business the
problem is the campaign Finance
violations and the business
for yeah but my point just on that is
that the similarity is that they both
paid off women to protect their their
political reputations that's the similar
I don't care about that at all I I don't
care that either one of them did it I
only care if they my point is one got
one got taken through a criminal trial
and yet the other one Bill Clinton to me
because Clinton didn't do anything
criminal in paying off Paulo Jones
that's the most normal settlement in
American history by the way there's
other people that did do things wrong in
the Clinton era Sandy Berger stuffed uh
National secrets into his socks and and
you know what they did to him they tried
him and Donald Trump took National
secrets and they're trying them if you
break the law you get tried but to your
question about the politics of this look
the giant difference between the
Republicans and Democrats is that the
Republican voters picked Donald Trump
and I respect that I think they picked
the wrong guy and I think that they're
that they're the mark Donald Trump is a
con man and the Mark isn't the Democrats
the Mark is the Republican voters but
nevertheless he did a he ran a
successful Con on them and they selected
him on the Democratic side the voters
didn't select anyone party leadership
selected Joe Biden and they pretty much
closed off the primaries as you know I
ran against them RFK Jr ran against them
and they pushed everyone out of the
party and said no we're going to protect
Joe Biden because he's the dear leader
and that is a terrible idea that's why
he's losing the Trump despite all of
Donald Trump's problems bid look guys if
you're a Democrat and you can't beat
Donald Trump there's something wrong
with you Hillary Clinton was a terrible
candidate Joe Biden is a terrible
candidate the Democratic candidate
should be up 10 points on Donald Trump
if you're not up 10 points on Donald
Trump you suck at this has been terrible
cand one point very
quickly very
quickly how about of the fact that two
points I want to make CH to you and and
and the FEC the Federal Election
Commission decided not to move on this
case with Trump they did not see a
campaign violation the doj decided not
to move in but Alvin brag in New York
City had the wherewithal to move on it
and then to a second point you made the
reason Donald Trump is up on Biden isn't
because Trump is bad and Biden is good
is because Biden's leadership sucks
Americans are far worse today than they
were when Donald Trump was in office
that's a fact the economy is worse the
National Security is a concern we have
War all all over the all over the world
the problem that we're facing is is that
Americans now have buyers remorse on
saying well we can't do four more years
of trump mind you that the last
impression of them is President Trump
having to manage a once in a generation
pandemic okay now we can disagree on all
the things you don't like Trump I don't
like Biden but we can all agree on one
thing want this country to thrive and
this country is not thriving today Chen
okay with presid that is why Donald
Trump is up here's what I would tell you
we're just hearing the the daily mailes
reporting that Trump may have raised
nearly $40 million last night uh
smashing all records so I mean Vinnie it
seems to me the people the Democrats are
probably raising equal money peers well
they may well be it may well be but
they're probably raising equal money
well maybe we'll see but that's a lot of
money uh Vinnie I mean
what do you think is going to happen in
November do you think Trump's going to
win I to be honest with you peers uh if
if the things that Christopher Ray and
uh Tony blinkin are warning us because
they keep telling us something bad's
going to happen China's here you know
you know the our infrastructure unless
there's something catastrophic that
happens to either Trump or the country
to keep people from voting I think he's
going to win in a landslide and when
Chen talks about you know Trump is Trump
and these documents ments CH what about
Joe Biden Joe Biden same crime same
crime but you know what they say for
Biden he's old he didn't know he had
these documents and Jack Jack Smith
taking photos with the FBI that case was
just just dismissed what do you even
talk then nothing's going to happen to
Trump I'm telling you right now he has a
chance and I'm so happy think about that
uh Pierce $50 million in a couple of
hours that's from everybody the people
are fed up with this this uh personality
politic be yes trank you just don't like
Trump you never even thought of trump
till he said he was running you never
thought of him the only time you thought
of him was on The Apprentice now he's
racist and he's how's he racist nobody
beli's Hitler he's RAC I'm not going to
hear Trump criticized for The Apprentice
because he chose me as his Celebrity
Apprentice and that showed a very dute
Jud very astute judgment um Frank let me
in with you but um it's Trump is giving
a press conference as I speak I think we
can predict the kind of narrative it'll
be it'll be doubling trebling
quadrupling down the money is pouring in
you've got to assume that that's going
to help him in some way how do this all
play out where are we going to be in
November do you think I think we're
going to be such a broken country he
calls himself a political prisoner there
is a definition of who is a political
prisoner he's prepared to use whatever
language gets the most attention gets
the most eyeballs and all the work that
we doing is work to help people people
disagree better to find civility to find
Unity to bring people together and your
show and the communication that we had
is simply
simp symbolic of how bad things have
gotten and we're going to have that you
and I are going to have this
conversation six months from now and
we're going to wonder how we got here
well we'll know how we got here but
we're not going to know how to get out
of it
and I know how to get i' like to think
think that I'm a patriot but I'm not
sure I like to think that the American
democracy is the best ever I don't
know I do know that we're sick I do know
that we're divided I do know that it's
toxic and I know that among people over
65 years old who saw Vietnam Watergate
oil embargos the assassination of
kennedies and
Kings they think this is the worst that
they've ever seen America I do pay pay
attention to them I'm going to Normandy
our young men fought and died for this
great democracy and I think that we have
to live up to that and I'm not convinced
that we will a sad end uh to a livey
debate but Frank thank you very much to
D for coming in to Chen to Vincent to
George to Emily who uh could only stay
half an hour so we very grateful for her
joining us earlier and to John Bolton
and Michael vanine thank you all very
much indeed I appreciate
it thank you pierce
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