Anderson Cooper describes ‘severely damaging’ moment during Cohen’s testimony

CNN
16 May 202409:53

Summary

TLDRIn a dramatic courtroom exchange, Todd Blanchard's cross-examination of Michael Cohen revealed inconsistencies in Cohen's testimony regarding a phone conversation with Donald Trump about Stormy Daniels. Blanchard methodically dissected the timeline, pointing to text messages and call logs that contradicted Cohen's claim that the call was about the Daniels arrangement. This exposed Cohen to accusations of lying or making up stories, casting doubt on his credibility as the sole witness implicating Trump's direct involvement in the payments. The intense questioning left a powerful impression on the courtroom, with reporters and observers noting the high stakes and the potential impact on the case.

Takeaways

  • 📞 Todd Blanchard's Cross-Examination: The script highlights a pivotal moment in court where Todd Blanchard, through meticulous cross-examination, challenges Michael Cohen's testimony regarding a phone conversation with Donald Trump.
  • 🔍 Inconsistencies in Testimony: It is revealed that Michael Cohen's account of a phone call with Trump, which he claimed was about the Stormy Daniels arrangement, is called into question with the presentation of text messages and call logs.
  • 🤔 Cohen's Memory Issues: Michael Cohen appears to struggle with recalling details when cornered, often asking for questions to be repeated or expressing confusion, which raises doubts about the reliability of his testimony.
  • 📅 The Phone Call in Question: The disputed phone call took place on October 24th, allegedly around 8 p.m., and is central to Cohen's claim of Trump's direct involvement in the Stormy Daniels payments.
  • 📱 Text Messages from a Prank Caller: The script describes a series of text messages between Cohen and a 14-year-old prank caller, which Blanchard uses to cast doubt on the timing and purpose of Cohen's call with Keith Schiller.
  • 📉 Impact on Cohen's Credibility: The cross-examination is portrayed as damaging to Cohen's credibility, as it suggests he may have fabricated or misrepresented the content of the phone call with Trump.
  • 👀 Juror Reaction: While the jurors do not visibly react, their intense focus on the proceedings suggests the significance of the moment and its potential impact on their deliberations.
  • 🕒 Strategic Timing: Blanchard's decision to reveal the inconsistencies right before the lunch break is noted, implying a strategic move to leave the jurors with doubts about Cohen's testimony to ponder over the break.
  • 📝 Cohen's Admission: Cohen admits to not recalling seeing the text messages during preparation with prosecutors, which Blanchard suggests indicates a concocted story.
  • 🎭 Blanchard's Theatrical Presentation: The cross-examination is described as not only methodical but also theatrical, with Blanchard using his demeanor and body language to underscore his incredulity and challenge Cohen's account.
  • 📉 Broader Implications: The script suggests that the incident could lead the jury to doubt not just the specific phone call in question but all of Cohen's recollections of his interactions with Trump.

Q & A

  • What was the general atmosphere in the courtroom during the morning session according to Anderson Cooper?

    -According to Anderson Cooper, the morning session had a lot of boring moments with seemingly meandering cross-examination by Todd Blanch.

  • What significant event occurred in the last 20 minutes of the court session before the lunch break?

    -The significant event was an intense cross-examination by Todd Blanchard of Michael Cohen, which Anderson Cooper described as incredible and methodical.

  • What was the main focus of Todd Blanchard's cross-examination of Michael Cohen?

    -Todd Blanchard focused on a specific phone conversation that Michael Cohen claimed to have had with Donald Trump regarding the Stormy Daniels arrangement.

  • Why did Todd Blanchard's cross-examination become so dramatic?

    -The drama escalated because Blanchard revealed inconsistencies in Cohen's story by examining text messages and phone logs that contradicted Cohen's previous testimony.

  • What was the prank call situation that Todd Blanchard brought up during the cross-examination?

    -Blanchard mentioned a series of prank calls that Cohen received from a 14-year-old, which led to a text exchange between Cohen and the alleged prankster.

  • What was the phone call's timing and content that Michael Cohen initially testified about?

    -Cohen initially testified that he had a consequential phone conversation with Donald Trump on October 24th around 8 p.m. regarding the Stormy Daniels arrangement.

  • What was the revelation about the phone call that Todd Blanchard uncovered during his cross-examination?

    -Blanchard revealed that the phone call Cohen claimed to have had with Trump was actually about prank calls from a 14-year-old, casting doubt on Cohen's previous testimony.

  • How did Michael Cohen react when confronted with the inconsistencies in his testimony?

    -When cornered, Cohen seemed to struggle with understanding the questions and asked for clarification, which some might interpret as buying time to figure out his response.

  • What was the implication of Michael Cohen not recalling the text messages during his preparation with prosecutors?

    -The implication was that Cohen may have concocted the story of the phone call's content without realizing there were text messages that could contradict his account.

  • How did the courtroom observers, including the jurors, react to the cross-examination?

    -While the jurors did not show any reaction on their faces, they were watching intently, and the reporters in the room were highly engaged, indicating the significance of the moment.

  • What broader implications does this cross-examination have on Michael Cohen's credibility in the case?

    -The cross-examination raises doubts about Cohen's credibility regarding not just this particular phone call but also his recollections of other phone calls and testimonies related to the case.

Outlines

00:00

📞 Cross-Examination Drama: Michael Cohen's Testimony Challenged

In this segment, Anderson Cooper discusses a pivotal moment in court where Todd Blanchard, during cross-examination, challenges Michael Cohen's testimony regarding a phone conversation with Donald Trump. Blanchard methodically deconstructs Cohen's story, revealing inconsistencies with text messages and phone records that suggest Cohen lied about the purpose of the call. The segment highlights Blanchard's dramatic courtroom tactics, the implications for Cohen's credibility, and the potential impact on the jury's perception of his testimony. It also touches upon Cohen's pattern of evading questions when cornered and the significance of the jury's reaction to these revelations.

05:01

👀 Juror Intensity and the Impact of Cross-Examination

This paragraph delves into the reactions of the jurors and the courtroom atmosphere during the intense cross-examination of Michael Cohen. Despite the jurors' stoic faces, their intense focus on the proceedings is palpable. The discussion includes the strategic timing of the lunch break by Todd Blanchard to leave a lasting impression on the jurors. It also explores the implications of Cohen's changing testimony and the doubts it casts on his credibility. The conversation among the commentators suggests that the cross-examination was a turning point in the case, potentially damaging Cohen's reliability as a witness and raising broader questions about the authenticity of his other recollections and testimonies.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Cross-examination

Cross-examination refers to the questioning of a witness by the opposing counsel in a trial. In the context of this video, it is a pivotal part of the legal process where Todd Blanchard, the opposing counsel, challenges the credibility and consistency of Michael Cohen's testimony. This is crucial as it directly impacts the jury's perception of the witness's reliability.

💡Michael Cohen

Michael Cohen is a central figure in the video, a former personal attorney for Donald Trump. He is on trial and his testimony is being scrutinized for its truthfulness and relevance to the case involving Stormy Daniels payments and alleged approval from Trump. His credibility is under attack during the cross-examination by Todd Blanchard.

💡Stormy Daniels

Stormy Daniels is an adult film actress who was allegedly paid to keep quiet about an affair with Donald Trump. In the video, her name is mentioned in connection with a payment arrangement that Michael Cohen claims to have discussed with Trump, which is a significant aspect of the case and Cohen's testimony.

💡Todd Blanchard

Todd Blanchard is portrayed as a skilled cross-examiner in the video. He is the opposing counsel who challenges Michael Cohen's testimony, methodically dissecting the inconsistencies in Cohen's story. His performance in the courtroom is highlighted as being particularly impactful.

💡Credibility

Credibility in this video refers to the believability and trustworthiness of a witness's testimony. It is a key theme as the cross-examination by Todd Blanchard aims to undermine Michael Cohen's credibility by pointing out inconsistencies and suggesting that Cohen may be fabricating parts of his story.

💡Phone conversation

The term 'phone conversation' is repeatedly mentioned in the video as a critical piece of evidence. It refers to a specific call that Michael Cohen claims to have had with Donald Trump regarding Stormy Daniels. The authenticity and content of this phone conversation are contested during the cross-examination.

💡Text messages

Text messages are used as evidence in the video to challenge the narrative provided by Michael Cohen. They are shown to contradict Cohen's claim about the purpose of a phone call, suggesting that he may have been less than truthful in his testimony.

💡Keith Schiller

Keith Schiller is a former director of Oval Office operations and security for Donald Trump. In the video, he is mentioned in connection with a text message exchange with Michael Cohen about a separate issue, which becomes a point of contention during the cross-examination.

💡Inconsistencies

Inconsistencies refer to the discrepancies found between different parts of a witness's testimony or between their testimony and other evidence. In the video, Todd Blanchard uses inconsistencies in Michael Cohen's account to question his overall credibility and the accuracy of his statements.

💡Jurors

Jurors are the individuals who listen to the evidence and testimony in a trial and ultimately decide the outcome. In the video, their reactions and the impact of the cross-examination on their perception of the case are discussed, highlighting the importance of their role in the judicial process.

💡Memory refresh

Memory refresh in a legal context refers to the act of recalling or reestablishing one's memory about certain events or details. In the video, Michael Cohen's memory refresh is questioned, as it appears that he may not have been truthful or consistent in recalling the events related to the phone call with Trump.

Highlights

Todd Blanchard's cross-examination of Michael Cohen was intense and methodical, building a case around a specific phone conversation.

The alleged phone conversation between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump about Stormy Daniels' arrangement was a crucial part of Cohen's testimony.

Blanchard exposed inconsistencies by examining text messages and phone logs, suggesting Cohen's memory was refreshed incorrectly.

Cohen's phone records showed a call to Keith Schiller about prank calls, not Trump, contradicting his previous testimony.

Blanchard's incredulous reaction and dramatic courtroom presence put Cohen on the defensive.

Cohen's pattern of not understanding questions when cornered was highlighted.

The importance of the jury's belief in Cohen's testimony was underscored, as he is the only witness implicating Trump directly.

Blanchard pointed out that Cohen had not seen the text messages during preparation by prosecutors, suggesting a fabricated story.

The timing of Blanchard's cross-examination before the lunch break was strategic, leaving the jury with doubts about Cohen's credibility.

Observers noted the intense focus of the jurors, despite their lack of visible reaction.

The courtroom atmosphere was described as dramatic, with reporters' typewriters echoing the crescendo of the cross-examination.

Blanchard's tactic of ending the cross-examination before redirect could influence the jury's perception of Cohen's testimony.

If the jury doubts Cohen's testimony, it could have significant implications for the case.

Cohen's lack of confidence in his answers under Blanchard's cross-examination was apparent.

Blanchard questioned whether Cohen discussed the phone call with prosecutors, casting doubt on his recollection.

The broader question of Cohen's credibility regarding all phone calls with Trump was raised.

Transcripts

00:00

Anderson Cooper with us. Anderson.

00:02

How was court

00:03

You were there all morning.

00:06

I got to say

00:07

there was a lot of boring moments

00:08

early on.

00:09

There was a lot of kind of meandering

00:10

cross-examination

00:11

or seemingly meandering

00:12

cross-examination by Todd Blanch.

00:14

But the last 20 minutes of court

00:17

today, right before the lunch break,

00:19

it was incredible.

00:20

I mean, it was,

00:22

you know,

00:22

Elie Hoenig on, on my program

00:24

last night had talked about,

00:25

you know, on, on a cross-examination.

00:27

Lawyers want to kind of

00:29

put the the witness in a,

00:31

you know, build a box around the witness

00:32

and then slam it shut.

00:34

That's what Todd Blanchard did to

00:36

to Michael Cohen.

00:37

I mean, the story,

00:39

you know, the Todd Blanchard

00:40

just methodically went through

00:41

this sequence of events,

00:44

of this this, phone conversation,

00:47

that alleged

00:48

that that,

00:49

Michael Cohen

00:50

had testified to previously,

00:52

you know, that

00:53

that he had had this

00:54

consequential phone conversation

00:56

with Donald Trump.

00:57

It was a 92nd phone conversation,

00:59

I believe was October 24th,

01:01

with the date

01:02

testified to and in around 8 p.m.

01:05

or so at night.

01:07

but Todd Blanchard

01:08

on on his cross-examination today

01:11

went kind of looked

01:12

at the transcripts of text messages

01:14

that Michael Cohen had,

01:16

received and sent

01:17

before that, that time frame.

01:20

and there had been this series

01:21

I guess, a prank calls

01:22

that Michael Cohen had received.

01:24

It turned out to be

01:25

from some 14 year old.

01:27

There was an exchange of messages

01:28

between the alleged 14 year old

01:30

and Michael Cohen.

01:31

And then Michael Cohen

01:33

texted

01:34

Keith Schiller at like 750

01:36

something or 7:48 p.m.,

01:39

saying, hey, you know,

01:40

I've got some dope has been harassing me.

01:43

I got the person's phone number.

01:45

Who can I talk to?

01:46

Keith Schiller texted him back

01:48

saying, call me, and Michael

01:49

Cohen calls Keith Schiller.

01:50

This is the conversation

01:52

that previously Michael Cohen

01:53

had said

01:54

he was calling

01:55

to speak to Donald Trump to tell him,

01:58

that the stormy

01:59

he was going ahead with the Stormy

02:00

Daniels arrangement

02:01

and that Trump approved it, which was a,

02:03

you know, a

02:04

crucial, crucial

02:05

to Michael Cohen's whole raison d'etre

02:07

for being on the stand.

02:08

He's the only person testifying

02:10

to involvement

02:11

by direct involvement by Donald Trump,

02:14

in the Stormy Daniels payments.

02:16

but it according to suddenly now

02:18

Michael Cohen's refresh memory,

02:21

he now says, oh,

02:22

it was a call about this

02:24

14 year old making crank

02:25

phone calls to me, but also about,

02:28

the the moving ahead on Stormy Daniels.

02:31

Todd Blanch was incredulous.

02:34

his voice cracking, his voice raising

02:36

up, moving around the courtroom.

02:39

speaking.

02:40

You know, saying, you know, saying that

02:43

what the the jury doesn't want to hear,

02:46

you know him?

02:48

guessing it wants to hear facts.

02:50

It was an extraordinary

02:52

cross-examination by Todd Blanch.

02:53

And, you know,

02:54

Michael Cohen's

02:56

throughout the day,

02:57

Michael Cohen

02:58

when cornered

02:59

and when he found himself in a corner,

03:02

he does have a pattern of

03:03

suddenly not

03:04

understanding the question

03:05

that's being asked or seemingly kind of,

03:07

I mean, one

03:08

could say buying time

03:09

to try to figure out

03:10

what how he wants to answer.

03:12

but he definitely suddenly starts to,

03:14

you know, have Todd Blanch

03:16

repeat questions and say,

03:17

I don't quite understand what you mean.

03:18

I'm confused by the question.

03:21

but this time Michael Cohen

03:23

was was cornered in what appeared to be,

03:27

a lie.

03:28

I think to many in the room,

03:30

and had to adjust suddenly his memory

03:33

that he had just testified to on Tuesday.

03:37

Lee, I mean, you pointed out,

03:39

just right before the commercial break,

03:41

you know, if jurors don't believe Michael Cohen,

03:43

how significant is that?

03:44

That might be. He was.

03:47

I mean, it is hard to

03:49

I wonder how prosecutors

03:51

are going to redirect on this

03:52

because Todd Blanch also pointed out,

03:55

I got Michael Cohen

03:56

to admit that

03:58

he had not seen these text messages

04:00

in the Prep by prosecutors,

04:02

so he had

04:03

apparently had no memory

04:04

of those text messages.

04:06

and the implication is that he concocted,

04:11

you know, he was shown

04:12

that there was a phone call

04:13

to Keith Schiller at this time

04:15

by prosecutors in the prep

04:17

and the the implication,

04:18

certainly, by Todd Blanch,

04:19

is that

04:20

he concocted this story

04:22

of what

04:23

that 92nd phone call was

04:25

not realizing

04:26

that there were text messages

04:27

right ahead that directly related it,

04:29

and right after that directly related it.

04:31

So I understand obviously,

04:32

this resonated with you

04:33

as a courtroom observer.

04:35

Did you happen to see anything

04:36

in the jury box?

04:37

Were you able to pick up on

04:37

any reaction from the jurors?

04:41

I mean, these jurors are not, as you know,

04:43

I think a lot of people have said

04:44

and I've seen before,

04:45

they are they are they

04:46

they do not show reaction.

04:48

but you could tell the import import

04:52

of the moment and everybody in

04:53

the courtroom can tell.

04:54

And if you were unaware of it,

04:56

the clicking of every reporter

04:57

in the room's typewriters,

04:59

it was like a crescendo,

05:01

because the drama of the moment

05:03

was so clear to everybody in the room.

05:05

But the jurors showed

05:06

nothing on their faces, but they were.

05:08

They were watching incredibly intently.

05:11

And, you know, Todd Blanchard

05:13

essentially stopped the cross-examination

05:16

and said to the judge, you know, this

05:17

maybe this is a good time

05:18

for a lunch break.

05:19

And the judge agreed.

05:20

So this is what the jurors

05:21

are going to think to lunch.

05:22

I was talking to Norm

05:23

icing on the way out from court.

05:25

who was saying, you know, Todd Blanchard

05:28

should try to keep the cross-examination

05:30

going all the way

05:32

till through the afternoon.

05:34

not allowing the the prosecution to

05:37

to redirect it

05:38

so that for the next three

05:39

days, jurors

05:40

are just have

05:41

Michael Cohen's tested

05:42

testimony to mull over.

05:44

Yeah, that's a common tactic.

05:45

Anderson, let me ask you

05:46

if I can put you in the jury box,

05:48

having just witnessed

05:49

that piece of cross-examination,

05:51

do you have doubts

05:52

that that conversation happened

05:53

the way Michael Cohen testified

05:55

on his direct examination?

05:56

That I think Trump answered, I think it's

05:59

absolutely, absolutely

06:01

I think it's devastating.

06:02

I mean, for Michael Cohen's

06:03

credibility on this,

06:04

I mean, in this one particular topic,

06:06

whether it's, you know,

06:08

he just didn't I mean, it's it's hard to

06:12

I don't know. Yes.

06:13

I think

06:14

if I was a juror

06:15

in this case watching that, I would think

06:17

this guy's making this up as he's

06:19

going along

06:20

or he's making this particular story up.

06:23

You know, Todd Blanchard's pointing out

06:25

you were testifying

06:26

just on Tuesday in this court.

06:30

you know, and all morning long, he's

06:31

been pointing out,

06:33

you know, inconsistencies.

06:35

in, in Michael Cohen's testimony

06:37

or at least questionable

06:38

aspects of Michael Cohen's testimony,

06:40

but nothing that you would necessarily,

06:42

as a juror, think, okay, that's clearly

06:45

a lie. Maybe that's just,

06:48

he was

06:48

misunderstanding or,

06:50

you know, he was bragging or whatever.

06:52

This one, Todd Bland clearly saved this

06:56

to right before the lunch break.

06:57

I'm assuming,

06:59

because it was just so well crafted

07:02

and just point by point,

07:04

walking through this story,

07:05

which at first seemed, you know, why?

07:07

Why?

07:07

Well, this seems like a ridiculous story

07:09

some 14 year old is sending him,

07:11

you know, nasty text messages

07:13

and he's going to call it

07:14

Keith Schiller about it.

07:15

And then you realize, you look at that.

07:16

He showed the phone logs

07:18

that the prosecutor had shown,

07:20

and it's the phone call that,

07:21

that, that,

07:22

that Michael Cohen

07:23

previously talked about.

07:24

I think it is severely damaging

07:26

to Michael Cohen's testimony.

07:27

And I know

07:27

Kara Scannell is with us as well.

07:30

I mean, Carrie, you were there.

07:31

What did you think we were sitting

07:33

I was sitting opposite,

07:33

and I haven't been. I'll talk to you.

07:35

But I found it just so exciting.

07:37

It was,

07:38

you know, whatever,

07:39

whoever you believe, whatever side.

07:40

It was just a remarkable moment in court.

07:44

It truly was.

07:45

Because it

07:46

was really just kind of this building

07:48

crescendo with more of that,

07:50

you know, more mundane

07:51

questioning of trying to see

07:53

if Cohen did lie about multiple things,

07:55

including whether he wanted a pardon

07:57

or whether he was accepting

07:58

responsibility for his guilty plea.

08:00

But then it built to that moment

08:02

where Todd Blanch

08:02

methodically went through the phone

08:05

calls, the text messages and,

08:07

you know, as you were saying,

08:08

kind of put Michael Cohen in the box

08:10

and then shut the lid because it was and

08:14

added to it by being himself

08:15

more theatrical about it.

08:17

He's pacing, he's rubbing

08:18

his head, he's flailing

08:19

his arms, his voice is rising

08:21

as he is being incredulous,

08:23

saying to Cohen,

08:24

are you do

08:24

you really expect me to believe

08:26

that in that one minute,

08:27

36 second phone call

08:28

that you talk to Keith Schiller

08:30

about the harassing text

08:32

messages and phone calls,

08:34

and also to Donald Trump

08:35

about Stormy Daniels,

08:36

where you told him it was resolved.

08:37

So really

08:39

just trying to undercut

08:40

all of Cohen's credibility in that moment

08:43

and in Cohen,

08:44

you know, while he maintained his composure,

08:46

he certainly didn't look like

08:48

he had a lot of,

08:50

confidence in his answers there.

08:52

I mean, it even began

08:53

even more slowly

08:54

by saying that, you know,

08:55

asking Cohen,

08:56

did you even talk about this phone call

08:58

when he met with prosecutors?

08:59

And Cohen couldn't remember if he did.

09:01

He was trying to refresh

09:02

his recollection.

09:04

did it say that he did.

09:05

So that was casting doubt.

09:06

And then he just built and built

09:07

and built by showing those text messages

09:09

showing the call logs,

09:10

and then at the end

09:12

where he left the jury with it

09:13

after that big moment, he then said,

09:16

you know,

09:17

so I don't want what you think

09:19

you remember.

09:19

I the jury needs to know what you know

09:21

and what you definitely remember.

09:23

And then he left it

09:24

hanging in the air of did

09:25

was this true

09:26

for all of the phone calls

09:27

that Cohen recalled in 2016?

09:29

Because that gets to the broader

09:31

questions of his credibility

09:32

and whether the jury should should

09:34

maybe just doubt this one

09:35

phone call or doubt all of Cohen's

09:37

recollections of the phone calls

09:39

that he had with Donald Trump, including,

09:41

you know, some of these ones at the end,

09:43

including his testimony

09:44

about the Oval Office meeting,

09:46

the Trump Tower meeting where Trump

09:47

allegedly approved

09:49

and signed off

09:50

on the reimbursement scheme

09:51

that's at the heart of this case.

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العلامات ذات الصلة
Courtroom DramaCross-ExaminationMichael CohenStormy DanielsLegal BattleCredibility TestPhone Call EvidenceText MessagesDonald TrumpLegal Strategy
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