ASUS Already On Government's Radar for Warranty Issues

if Asus has done this exact thing to

more than a 100 people and the FTC has

receipts about it that is enough for

them to go after him you know you were

showing me your phone and you're just

there was just email after email after

email of people with complaints if all

those people filled out this form 100%

the FTC would do

something acus has posted a second

apology it's the classic recursive

apology apology from a corporation after

it's non-apology where it's apologizing

for that non-apology so we're not going

to give the light of day it mostly says

the same stuff there's nothing concrete

or substantially different in it it's a

longer version that is less accusatory

but it basically says the same thing so

uh this video is not only about Asus

we're going to be talking about how to

protect yourself from getting screwed as

a customer talking about some of your

consumer rights some of this is very us

specific some of it is wider reaching

applies basically anywhere we're in the

US those are the laws that are the

easiest for me to research and

understand uh but as far as the Asus

part because we do want to close it that

story line This is basically part three

it might be the final for now uh again

we did a a similar thing last year with

them so there's always room for more

especially with Asus and we'll see maybe

we talk to them in the future but just

to get it out there publicly I asked

Asus if I could try to help them with

their own customers by which I meant hey

I have an inbox full of very upset Asus

customers I would like to help you help

them and they rejected the offer which

is cowardice and uh in my opinion anyway

and in the very least kind of shows what

they think of their own customers um so

anyway what we're doing now this because

this does go beyond Asus we can do

something productive and help some of

the people with all of these warranty

issues in general uh maybe even get some

policy passed that's kind of one of the

next things I'm starting to look into

but we have something for you all first

so we've created a warranty click

toolkit on the gamers nexus.net website

this is freely available there are no

ads on the page for any thirdparty

services and this web page contains some

legal definitions some explanations for

a US audience to inform you of your

rights but it also contains templated

replies that you can use in any region

and adapt for your own warranty claims

these are written to help you get a

productive and hopefully Speedy response

to your warranty issues with any

manufacturer we also have guidelines on

how to document your device suggestions

on how you could confirm everything in

writing and seek manufacturer guidance

every step of the way so they can't

you out of a claim and how it's

a push back against rejections of valid

claims if you happen to face one like we

did our hope is that with this

information you'll have some confidence

to be able to successfully push back in

many common scenarios of rejection of a

valid claim and we've even pointed you

towards if you're in the US at least a

couple of laws that you can reference to

maybe just get escalated to a supervisor

and have it resolved further we're

compiling a report with the public

interest interest research group they

were recommended to me by LS Rosman

Nathan Proctor from it's pronounced perg

will be joining us today in most of this

video to talk about consumer rights so

the goal here is consumer education uh

and just trying to help people as much

as possible when the company is uh

acting in the way that Asus is so we're

also going to be filing that report that

we are working on which is Asus specific

with the Federal Trade Commission so I

am going to be either personally

submitting it or submitting it to the

public interest research group who will

then bring it up as high as I can to the

FTC these reports are pretty powerful so

they are important now for everyone in

our audience who has had an Asus

warranty issue even if you've already

emailed it to us and thank you we have

lots of them now please also visit this

genius link on the screen it's GE ni.

us/ Asus claim that's just a link

shortener so g. us/ Asus claim and that

will bring you to a Google form we've

created the goal of this is to compile

evidence in a quickly referenceable and

standardized way so a form so that we

can use it going forward such as if we

want to bring any of these matters to

the attention of the FTC before that we

brought you this video our limited foil

cyers skeleton V2 shirt directly helps

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efforts it features a skeletal outline

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us head over to store. Gamers access.net

this issue goes far beyond Asus and

we'll be investigating other

manufacturers as well we've done a lot

of undercover warranty investigations

over the years Intel for example was one

of them in the past uh but I have

something to say to Asus directly as we

kind of close out their part of the

story line so our objective is for Asus

to be better and the reason I want Asus

to be better is not for Asus it's for

the customers or our viewers because our

really primary objective at GN is

consumer Focus who typically has the

least power in the whole chain of events

uh and if by the way of helping

consumers Asus also betters its own

reputation it gets some marketing then

great everyone's happy and Asus that is

our goal there is no other goal here so

if you claim to be a leader in the

market like you do then set the example

by sales Asus you are the leader in many

of these markets and no one is in a

better position to support the customer

than Asus they shouldn't feel threatened

by their competitors at least in things

like motherboards even handhelds they're

doing pretty well compared to their

competition uh regardless of total

market sales so if as if you suddenly

support your customers properly then all

of the manufacturers who compete with

you such as gigabyte ASRock MSI other

motherboard vendors they are going to

have to follow in order to compete

that's the great thing about when the

market leader does something right

everyone else is going to have to follow

it to compete whereas if someone smaller

does it that might just give them an

opportunity to Leap Frog Asus eventually

and get to the top so this can only help

Asus and we really want you Asus to set

the right example okay let's get into it

so we want to create a somewhat

permanent referential resource for you

to check for help with your warranty

claims it has basic guidelines how do

you successfully file a claim this is

assuming of course you have a valid

claim uh and that it's not a scam

because companies have to plan for that

too which we can respect and understand

that but the way to plan for that though

is not to just turn around and scam the

customer instead so there's the line to

be drawn we have the website page that's

made we're going to update that whenever

we think of something new to add some

kind of advice or suggestions to post

there so that's supposed to just be

there forever for you to help out

bookmarket or whatever for when you have

a warranty claim in the future uh

consumer rights differ between countries

as I said our focus is mainly the US

it's the market we're in selfishly uh

and it's the one I'm the most competent

about in terms of having access to

lawyers or people who know the laws so

we can inform ourselves so that's our

main focus but there's some generic

stuff in there too for everybody now uh

this video mostly is focused on an

interview with Nathan Proctor from the

public interest research group or again

perg uh again recommended by Lewis

Rossman and it's a companion piece to

our interview with attorney Vincent

Augusta where we discussed warranty laws

in the US Magnus and Moss the act from I

think it was the 1970s and some consumer

rights there so we've got these two

pieces where what we're trying to do

again is really take the opportunity to

to provide consumer education that is my

personal objective here because you know

this Asus thing uh it it sucks that

they're doing this it is upsetting and

it's frustrating at the same time

there's kind of a limit to how far you

can get with being frustrated and so the

thing to do once you hit that limit is

to try and turn it into education that

can be used broadly not just for this

one instance that we've been reporting

on so that's what we're doing here today

again to reference the article so it

talks through several of these aspects

we'll leave most of them there for you

to just read if you ever need it as one

example though we have some details on

how to convert a warranty support phone

call into something in writing so

everyone's on the same page that way

this is something that attorney Vincent

Augusta recommended in our discussion

with him where he's talking about

getting everything written down so the

manufacturer the customer everyone knows

what's supposed to happen here our guide

for example says to reaffirm with the

support rep on the phone that you

understand the agreement or the next

steps properly read it back to them from

your notes and then ask for their email

or a general support inbox so that you

can follow up at which point you would

confirm this understanding send the note

say just confirming that this is what we

agreed upon or what the next steps are

and that allows you to get it into some

form of writing now of course they can

respond and disagree but at least that's

written down and you can take it from

there now the reason for doing all this

or the I don't know the underlining

principle for GN from our sort of

standpoint is uh gan's grown enough at

this point and I've grown dissatisfied

enough with how a lot of these not all

of them but a lot of the companies

handle these situations where we're

starting the process of taking our

findings as far up the chain as we can

so you at first it was kind of talking

to lawyers about it getting some on

camera discussion educate the audience

and it's getting people like Nathan

Proctor on today to talk about even more

of the consumer right side but the next

step that I'm starting to look at is the

process of taking some of our findings

for things like this Asus claim and

whatever else we uh may run into to

lawmakers so I've already begun that

process of uh basically figuring out who

we want to connect with on the Congress

or Senate side of things who makes the

most sense to talk to I'm sure I'll be

having conversations with perg with Le

Rossman anyone else who can point me the

right direction who has experience with

it uh and also I'll be contacting the

Federal Trade Commission just in general

so not necessarily for Asus although

that's an option too but just more of a

hey I'd like to establish a line of

communication kind of like we did with

the US consumer protection the US cpsc

which is an agency

um that we worked with for the NZXT

cases catching on fire issue uh kind of

like that except on some of this

warranty and support side of thing so

that's kind of what we're looking at

right now which is because we've we've

done this enough we've complained enough

and um the goal isn't to just complain

it's to actually get something done and

if the companies aren't going to do it

themselves then we'll find a way to make

them do it that's that's where we're

going with it so anyway I want to

briefly talk about two times

specifically that we've covered where a

company did exceptionally well with a

warranty type issue the reason I'm

bringing these back up is because I want

to set a road map where Asus or just you

all anyone can look at it and say all

right we get it what do you want Steve

and there's two examples Arctic and

fractal both did phenomenally with their

own warranty issues they were of

different severities so uh quick recap

we already covered them in Fall we'll

link them below if you want those

details but Arctic had an issue with

corrosion of its one of its liquid

freezer 2 Series of pumps so the

previous generation they had a serial

number range and they actually contacted

us before we found out about it on our

own which is amazing already and they

said we' found this big problem uh the

pumps are getting gunked up and it's

causing temperatures to be too high or

feasibly could cause failure of the

liquid cooler product so they told us

about it they explained what the issue

was they I think gave me like some kind

of I x-ray analysis materials analysis

or whatever of the failure and with all

that detail they then said here's what

we would like uh we want everyone to

know about this and that's awesome

because their feeling was they want the

customer to have a good experience with

the product they would hate for anyone

to have this problem and not know they

can get help for it or that it's an own

issue and so they did a uh an option

where you could either send it in to get

repaired or you could take a repair kit

and repair it yourself and that was

great handled excellently um really

professional handling of that fractal

had an issue similar to XTS where it had

a PCB and I believe it was the torrent

that was uh a poor design and could

short in a way that could potentially

cause it to uh burn or maybe even catch

fire if you have the wrong conditions

just like the H1 fractal also contacted

us in advance and they said we have this

problem we are pulling all of the

shipments of the torrent back this is

like before it was really fully hitting

the market and we're fixing all of them

and we'll send them back out again with

the fixed one so those are two examples

not going to get them further we have

videos on them but the point is that

companies can do stuff well and I

actually I won't specify which one but I

spoke with one of those two companies

after it was all said and done and I

said so how'd it work out and they said

well we fixed all the claims and

actually our sales increased so much

that it even covered the cost of fixing

everything which is awesome because

companies should be recognized and

rewarded for doing the right thing like

that that is exactly how the system

should work and uh I I hope that's

encouraging for Asus to look at this and

go maybe we need to recalculate how we

view warranty claims and if they don't

if large corporations don't then keeping

in mind that you know these smaller

companies have the mobility and they

have the motive to act in the interest

of the consumers whereas large

corporations will be more calculating

and one thing that changes that

calculation is laws and policy and

legislation and things where it now

there is a potential uh punitive aspect

to it

and that that Waits the outcome for the

consumer enough of that so closing out

on the Asus side of things specifically

if you've been affected by their

warranty processes in the past even or

especially you emailed us please fill in

the survey we've linked the emails are

not going to be used for any kind of

marketing uh it is explicitly so that we

can collect data in a spreadsheet so the

inbox doesn't doesn't automatically sort

of spread sheet if I it uh and use that

to communicate with say the FTC and try

to help explain to them what is

happening in this segment of the market

and try to get something done about it

um for now though let's get into the

discussion with Nathan Proctor remember

this can be applied to other companies

it's an educational piece includes

details on how you can get involved as

well if you'd like uh uh if this all

motivates you so let's jump over to it

okay so now I am joined by Nathan

Proctor and you were recommended to me

by Lewis Rossman okay before we get into

some of the details a little bit of your

background I think would help help and

kind of where you've worked you know

within this field I am the senior

national campaign director for the perg

public interest research groups Network

working on right repair advocacy I've

been working on right repair almost

exclusively for seven years okay so some

of the campaigns you've worked on one

example you gave with the Chromebooks

give me some hope give me give me some

kind of optimism of like what is

something that has worked yeah and what

you know what does that look like at the

end you know Google is definitely a

bigger company than Asus right we were

starting we started getting calls in

like 2021

2022 from people who are at schools who

were having a lot of trouble keeping

Chromebooks in use and there's a whole

slew of problems that they had um you

know one of the big ones was that

Chromebooks have an end of support date

like an automatic expiration date for

the the security off for the security

updates that they provide um and this is

baked in like when they approve the

build at the very start of the process

you're going to get this much time after

which you won't get security updates and

the problem with that for schools is

mostly they use uh they need these

computers to be able to connect to these

secure State testing sites as well as

Enterprise tools like Google Classroom

which will will not work on an unsecured

device so schools are like literally

they had thousands and thousands of

Chromebooks totally working laptops at

the time where we released that report

you could go on Amazon on Walmart and

some of these other retailers you could

buy already software expired notebooks

as brand new with no disclosure that

that you would be totally incapable of

using them on a secure platform so we we

took we or you know we did a big thing

we we told Google we were going to do it

then we did it and um you know it's a

lot of headlines

uh there's a lot of pressure on Google

we kept on moving like we had a

secondary release of like here's all the

Chromebooks you can buy that are already

expired and you know and eventually um

there was the shareholder engagement

from people who you know from

shareholders at Google and eventually

they just said okay 10 years updates and

we're going to be retroactive we're

going to cover a bunch of things that

are coming off the AE date and um you

know I mean that was some work right but

it was the right thing

we had we had enough people engaged

Google is going to act in the best

interest of Google and if you can set up

a situation where it's in Google's

self-interest to do the right thing the

thing that's beneficial for us then then

then everybody is going to you know move

forward and that that's how you win when

you're trying to figure out how to move

a big company like that so the question

for Asus

is they they might view it as in their

self-interest to forced or to coer or to

whatever they're doing to get customers

to pay for repairs they don't need you

know I think that one to me fairly

plausible Theory would be that they have

to replace a bunch of the components in

these products because they're defective

and in order to help kind of lower the

cost they're losing money on this

they're kind of trying to you know not

so subtly twist your arm into paying for

stuff you don't need right

and that could they could view that as

their

self-interest there's definitely a

situation where it's very bad for Asus

to continue doing that or to do things

like that and so I think if you want to

think about how to change Asus as

Behavior you just create the conditions

where it's cheaper and better for their

brand for their company for their you

know their mission what they're trying

to do to treat their customers better

when it comes to warranties yeah I think

even cynically we're talking about this

before we started filming but even if

you have a cynical Outlook of the

company only wants to make money you can

still approach it from that Outlook and

okay fine how do we how do we let them

do that but in a way that's better for

everybody right I mean that's that's

that's why you know regulations and laws

are such so important right if there are

no rules and that you can do

anything that means if you're ethical if

if being ethical is more expensive

then you know if you're ethical it puts

you out of business so that's why if you

want them to behave well we need to set

the rules and so that even even the

companies that want to do the right

thing they don't lose market share

because they're like they're acting

kindly and being punished for it every

company's looking at what the other

companies are doing and if like the

number one most dominant company was

like treating customers great they'd all

be like hey we should do that so that we

look good I mean I would say the other

thing that's difficult about the

warranty part of the process and this is

true this is true in WR to repair

broadly is these things are typically

happening after they've made their money

so like you've already bought the thing

right you're already in the

ecosystem you've already got all these

games that you paid for and now they

don't have to treat you as nice and

that's why I mean competition law

broadly is really important so that

customers have the ability to move

around but then you have to rec I mean

there's this thing in antitrust law

called tying which is the core of it's a

huge part of Magnuson Moss and the idea

of tying is that if you have one

purchase if you make one purchase you

shouldn't be able to coers the person to

buying another good or service right so

if I buy a car it shouldn't secretly

have a built-in Arrangement where I have

to go only to the dealership to get oil

changes because there's no other way to

do it that's viewed as an

anti-competitive ative act the FTC has

rules around tying that is the reason

why in Magnuson Moss the warranty law

federal warranty law which you guys

discussed in your last

episode it says you're not allowed to

condition someone's warranty on

exclusive use of the

manufacturer's repair services or their

materials like if it used to some kind

of consumable um like batteries you

can't say you have to use our batteries

um but you know Asus has actually

already been in trouble for this very

thing right we were discussing this

before and yeah let's pull that up let's

pull this up so the background is in I

did check actually and we we covered it

in a news episode briefly but in 2018

the

FTC sent uh I guess what I'll describe

as aent assist to Asus along with

several other companies right right I I

think that that's a I don't I don't know

if that's the legal word but that

certainly describes what the FDC is

saying to Asus here um all right so I'm

just going to read a section of this and

and I'm sure you guys can put it up on

the screen here but the ftc's division

of marketing practices has reviewed

written warranty materials related to

products offered by Asus tech computer

Inc Asus available on asus's website

asus.com a website that markets phones

computers and other products to

Consumers staff has concerns about

certain representations your company is

making regarding its warranty coverage

staff is particularly concerned about

the following elements in asus's ridden

warranty quote the warranty applies to

Firmware issues but not to any other

software issues or customer induced

damages or circumstances such as but not

limited to the product has been tampered

with repaired Andor Modified by

non-authorized Personnel the warranty

seals have been broken or altered and

this is one of six letters that the FTC

sent to companies including Sony and

Nintendo and M Microsoft and HTC and

Hyundai um that basically said you can't

have these void if removed stickers or

policies like you're not allowed to tell

people that they can't open things does

it seem like there's a a situation where

Asus is in violation of some kind of FTC

rule or regulation or in other words for

all of the hundreds of people in the

audience who've emailed us just in the

last I don't know year alone it might be