Fundamentals of LPVOs: Cheap vs Expensive

Forgotten Weapons
7 Apr 202426:41

Summary

TLDRIn this video, Ian McCollum interviews Mike Branson of Gideon Optics at Shot Show 2024, discussing the features and pricing of various low-power variable optics (LPVOs). Mike explains the trade-offs between affordability and performance, emphasizing that while more expensive optics offer better glass and light transmission, a well-designed, budget LPVO like Gideon's can meet the needs of many shooters. The conversation highlights the importance of matching the optic to the user's requirements and skill level, rather than blindly pursuing high-end, expensive options.

Takeaways

  • 🎥 Ian McCollum interviews Mike Branson of Gideon Optics at Shot Show 2024, discussing the company's new LPVO (Low Power Variable Optic) offerings.
  • 🤓 Mike Branson's background includes experience with Primary Arms, Swamp Hawks, and now his own startup, Gideon Optics.
  • 🔎 The discussion focuses on the features and pricing of different LPVOs, comparing high-end models to Gideon Optic's more affordable options.
  • 💡 Mike explains that while more expensive optics may offer better glass and light transmission, it doesn't always translate to practical benefits for the average shooter.
  • 🦌 The importance of light gathering is highlighted, especially for hunting scenarios where every bit of light can make a difference.
  • 💰 The price differences between various LPVOs are attributed to factors such as glass quality, manufacturing location, and the level of performance the user is willing to pay for.
  • 🔄 Mike discusses the challenges of designing LPVOs, including the trade-offs between magnification, size, weight, and optical performance.
  • 🔧 The conversation touches on the repeatability and quality control of turret adjustments, and how it affects the price of optics.
  • 🏹 The role of the user's skill set and the importance of practice are emphasized, suggesting that high-end equipment is not always necessary for achieving good results.
  • 🌐 The global manufacturing landscape and its impact on product quality and cost are briefly explored, illustrating the complex nature of modern production.
  • 🇺🇸 Ian McCollum and Mike Branson both express a commitment to supporting the Second Amendment and making high-quality optics accessible to all.

Q & A

  • What is the main topic of discussion between Ian McCollum and Mike Branson in the video?

    -The main topic of discussion is the comparison and evaluation of different low power variable optics (LPVOs), focusing on their features, performance, and price points.

  • What are some factors that contribute to the price variation among LPVOs?

    -Factors that contribute to price variation include the quality of glass, light transmission, optical design, manufacturing costs, and the level of performance required by the user.

  • What is the significance of the 34mm tube and 28 millimeter objective lens in the LPVO discussed by Mike Branson?

    -The 34mm tube and 28 millimeter objective lens are significant because they allow for better light gathering and easier viewing at 10 power, compared to smaller optics. However, this also makes the LPVO a bit larger and heavier.

  • What is the role of the reticle in an LPVO, and how does it affect the accuracy of the shots?

    -The reticle is crucial for aiming and determining bullet drop compensation. In second focal plane LPVOs, the reticle size remains constant regardless of zoom level, meaning the bullet drop compensation is only accurate at the highest magnification.

  • Why does Mike Branson emphasize the importance of quality parts and toughness in LPVOs?

    -Quality parts and toughness ensure the durability and reliability of the LPVO, which is essential for various shooting applications, especially in harsh conditions or during competitions and hunting expeditions.

  • What is the significance of the price difference between a Primary Arms 1 to 8 Platinum and a Night Force attacker?

    -The price difference reflects the differences in manufacturing origin, glass quality, and light transmission. Japanese-made optics like the Primary Arms typically have better glass and light transmission, justifying the higher price for those seeking the highest performance.

  • What does Mike Branson suggest for users who are unsure about the value of expensive LPVOs?

    -Mike Branson suggests that users should research and understand the specific features and performance improvements that higher-priced LPVOs offer, and consider whether they need those features for their intended use before making a purchase.

  • How does Mike Branson view the current state of affordable LPVOs and their capabilities?

    -Mike Branson views the current state of affordable LPVOs positively, noting that significant progress has been made, and they can offer high performance at a fraction of the cost of more expensive options, making them suitable for many users.

  • What is the importance of repeatability in LPVO adjustments, and how does it affect the price?

    -Repeatability in adjustments ensures consistent and reliable zeroing of the scope, which is critical for precision shooting. Higher quality and more consistent adjustments often come with higher-priced LPVOs due to better manufacturing processes and quality control.

  • What is the significance of the discussion on the Second Amendment and affordable firearms in the context of the video?

    -The discussion emphasizes the importance of making high-quality shooting equipment accessible to all, not just those who can afford expensive gear. It highlights the Second Amendment's applicability to everyone, regardless of their economic status, and the desire to democratize access to firearms and shooting sports.

Outlines

00:00

🎥 Introduction to LPVO Discussion

The paragraph introduces the topic of low power variable optics (LPVO) with a focus on the variety of options available in the market, ranging from cheap to expensive. The speaker, Ian McCollum, engages in a detailed conversation with Mike Branson from Gideon Optics about the features and price points of different LPVOs. They discuss the importance of magnification, range, weight, and the limitations set by physics. The conversation touches on the value of investing in high-end optics versus more affordable options, and the features that can be improved with increased cost.

05:02

🔍 Optic Quality and Performance

This paragraph delves into the quality and performance aspects of different optics, highlighting the differences between Japanese and Chinese-made optics. The discussion emphasizes the importance of light transmission, especially in low-light conditions, and how it can affect the user's ability to gather light and see clearly. The conversation also explores the concept of diminishing returns in terms of performance and cost, and the need for customers to decide how much performance they are willing to pay for based on their specific needs and applications.

10:03

🛠️ Engineering and Design of LPVOs

The focus of this paragraph is on the engineering and design challenges associated with creating LPVOs. The discussion revolves around the constraints of physics, particularly in relation to the size and weight of the optics. The speaker talks about the trade-offs between magnification levels and the resulting eyebox, and the importance of repeatability in adjustments for precision shooting. The paragraph also mentions the innovation by Primary Arms in creating a smaller and lighter optic without compromising on quality, which is seen as a significant achievement in the field.

15:19

💡 Illumination and Adjustments in Optics

This paragraph discusses the complexities of illumination features in LPVOs and the potential issues that can arise, such as illumination failure. The conversation explores the balance between the cost, complexity, and reliability of illuminated reticles versus non-illuminated ones. The paragraph also touches on the quality control aspects of optic adjustments, highlighting how the price of a scope can be influenced by the level of quality and precision in its components. The discussion points out the global nature of manufacturing and the impact of labor costs on the final product.

20:21

🏹 The Relevance of Precision and Cost in Shooting

The paragraph examines the relevance of precision and cost in shooting, particularly in Precision Rifle Series (PRS) competitions. It discusses how shooters invest in high-end equipment to minimize variables and improve their accuracy. The speaker reflects on the progress made in the field and how current civilian equipment often surpasses historical military-grade weapons. The paragraph concludes with a passionate defense of the Second Amendment and the importance of making high-quality shooting equipment accessible to all, regardless of their economic status.

25:22

🚀 Conclusion and Recommendations for LPVOs

In the concluding paragraph, the speaker wraps up the discussion on LPVOs by reinforcing their accessibility and value to a wide range of users. The conversation briefly revisits the topic of different types of optics, such as prism and red dot sights, and the speaker's personal preference for a combination of both. The paragraph ends with a plug for Gideon Optics, promoting their affordable yet capable LPVOs and pistol optics, and encourages viewers to explore their options based on their needs and budget.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡LPVO (Low Power Variable Optic)

LPVO refers to a type of optical sighting device that offers variable magnification at lower powers, typically used for close to medium range engagements. In the video, the discussion revolves around the features, performance, and cost considerations of different LPVOs available in the market. The term is used to describe a range of optics that the guest, Mike Branson, has experience with and is now developing through his startup, Gideon Optics.

💡Optical Design

Optical design refers to the engineering and layout of the lenses and optical components within an optic device, such as a LPVO. It is crucial for determining the quality of image, light transmission, and overall performance of the optic. In the video, the host and guest discuss how smart optical design can make a difference in the user's ability to see through the optic at higher magnifications, and how it can affect the price point of the product.

💡Magnification

Magnification is the process of enlarging the appearance of an object viewed through an optic, such as a LPVO. It is a key feature that determines the range and detail of the target visible to the user. The video script mentions different magnification ranges like 1-10x, and how it affects the user's ability to engage targets at various distances, as well as the impact on the eyebox and overall size and weight of the optic.

💡Weight

Weight is a critical factor in the handling and user preference for optics like LPVOs. A heavier optic can affect the balance and carrying comfort of a firearm. In the video, the discussion includes the trade-offs between weight and quality, and how lighter optics can sometimes be achieved at a higher cost due to better materials and engineering processes.

💡Reticle

A reticle is the pattern or crosshair displayed within the viewing area of an optic, used for aiming at a target. The video discusses different types of reticles, such as first and second focal plane designs, and how they behave at different magnification levels. The reticle's visibility and design are crucial for accurate shooting, especially at longer ranges or in low-light conditions.

💡Light Transmission

Light transmission refers to the amount of light that passes through an optic to the user's eye, which affects the brightness and clarity of the image. High light transmission is desirable, especially for hunting or shooting in low-light conditions. The video talks about how different types of glass and coatings can affect light transmission and why it might be worth paying more for an optic with better light transmission.

💡Eyebox

The eyebox is the perceived size and shape of the viewing area of an optic, which affects the ease and comfort of looking through the device. A larger eyebox can provide a more forgiving viewing experience, while a smaller one can be more challenging, particularly at higher magnifications. The video discusses how the eyebox is influenced by the magnification and optical design of the LPVO.

💡Price Point

Price point refers to the selling price of a product, which is influenced by factors such as features, quality, brand, and manufacturing costs. In the context of the video, the discussion focuses on the relationship between the price of LPVOs and their performance characteristics, and how consumers should consider their needs and budget when selecting an optic.

💡Performance

Performance in the context of the video refers to the effectiveness and reliability of the LPVO in various shooting scenarios. It encompasses factors such as image clarity, light transmission, magnification range, and durability. The video emphasizes the importance of balancing performance with cost, and how different users may prioritize different aspects of performance based on their intended use.

💡Second Amendment

The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In the video, the host expresses a personal belief in the importance of this right for all citizens, regardless of their economic status, and discusses how providing affordable yet effective firearms and optics can help ensure this right is accessible to everyone.

Highlights

Discussion on the variety of LPVOs available in the market, ranging from cheap to expensive options.

Considerations when choosing an LPVO, such as magnification, range, weight, and price.

Comparison between high-end LPVOs and more affordable options in terms of features and performance.

Explanation of the challenges with a 1-10 power LPVO and how Gideon Optics addressed them.

Discussion on the importance of glass quality in LPVOs and how it affects light transmission and performance.

Comparison of Japanese and Chinese made optics and their impact on price and performance.

Importance of light gathering capability in LPVOs, especially for hunting applications.

Discussion on the cost-benefit analysis of investing in high-end optics versus more affordable options.

Explanation of the differences between first and second focal plane reticles and their impact on shooting accuracy.

Discussion on the challenges and solutions related to reticle illumination in LPVOs.

Comparison of the eyebox in different magnification scopes and its impact on the user experience.

Discussion on the potential future developments in optic materials and weight reduction.

Explanation of the impact of quality control and manufacturing processes on the price and performance of LPVOs.

Discussion on the importance of repeatability in LPVO adjustments and its correlation to price.

Reflection on the progress made in the field of optics and how modern, affordable equipment surpasses historical military standards.

Emphasis on the importance of the Second Amendment for all citizens, regardless of their economic status.

Transcripts

00:03

hey guys thanks for tuning in to another

00:04

video on forgotten weapons.com I'm Ian

00:06

McCollum I'm here at Shot Show 2024

00:09

today joined once again by Mr Mike

00:11

Branson of Gideon Optics uh Mike is a

00:14

huge Optics nerd with experience in a

00:16

couple of different uh companies you

00:17

were with uh primary arms for a while

00:20

you were with swamp Hawks for a while

00:21

and now you're doing your own new

00:23

startup here yeah with Gideon Optics

00:24

yeah we've been in here we did Pistol

00:26

dots last year and then uh this year

00:28

we're expanding and I've got a new pvo

00:30

here so let's talk about lpos okay so

00:33

there's a lot of lpos out there yes

00:35

there are and some of them are really

00:37

cheap and now there's one

00:39

more and some of them are really

00:41

expensive yes and I look at this and I'm

00:44

like okay I can look at magnification

00:46

range and the

00:48

weight and those are like the only

00:50

quantifi I can think of so do I spend a

00:53

lot of money on a high-end one am I

00:55

going to get features like what features

00:57

can I get improved by throwing money at

01:00

lpvo right

01:01

versus what you know there's a whole

01:04

bunch of lenses in there and there's

01:05

going to be some stuff that's just

01:07

dictated by physics right where a 10,000

01:10

well not 10 $2,000 sometimes 10 now okay

01:13

it's yeah ask ask Sig with the new nsgw

01:16

optic oh there it is I mean it's got a

01:18

laser piggyback thingy on top of it but

01:20

there that's that's 11 Grand to pop

01:23

thanks Uncle Sam so what is what is

01:25

there that you know Gideon can do just

01:28

as well as s

01:31

versus versus not yeah exactly yeah so

01:35

uh right

01:37

so that's yeah it's a it's a simple

01:39

question with a again a complicated

01:41

answer right and this is the part where

01:45

uh the internet guys expect me to pound

01:47

my chest and go just as good just as

01:50

good right but let's have a real

01:51

conversation about it let's you know I

01:53

want to contribute to forgotten

01:55

weapons the best I can let's talk about

01:57

what things what things are really like

01:58

and that and

02:00

so the first thing is you cannot defeat

02:04

math right math is math and so this is a

02:08

1 to 10 with a 34mm tube and a 28 millim

02:11

objective lens so it's a little bit big

02:13

it's a little bit heavy compared to a

02:14

30mm tube optic with a 24 millimeter

02:17

lens so why did I do the big heavy one

02:19

what's the problem with one to 10 they

02:21

get tied at 10 power I turn this thing

02:23

from one to 10 and I can't see through

02:25

it and I'm fighting it and it's a pain

02:27

in the butt to look through if I make my

02:29

tube a little bit Bigg ger I make my

02:30

internal lenses a little bit bigger I

02:32

make my objective lens a little bit

02:33

bigger and I'm smart with my Optical

02:35

design it's a little bit easier to see

02:37

through this one at 10 power than some

02:40

of the other lpv on the market and

02:42

that's something that I can accomplish

02:45

at our price level which this is about a

02:46

$400

02:48

lpvo um and it's got great glass it's a

02:51

true onx download does all the things

02:52

that I expect from an lpvo at that price

02:56

point and it's plenty tough uh you know

02:59

the aluminum is is the aluminum it's you

03:01

know it's got Quality Parts in it it's

03:03

going to do uh the toughness things that

03:06

we expect so why is it 400 bucks when a

03:10

when a a primary Arms 1 to eight

03:12

Platinum is 1,500 bucks and why is that

03:16

scope 1,500 bucks when a night Force

03:19

attacker is $1,000 more than that let's

03:22

talk about it excellent question yeah

03:24

there we go so now I've cirle around to

03:25

your question so uh the the primary arms

03:28

optic is a Japanese made optic this is a

03:30

Chinese made optic so the Japanese

03:33

Optics do have better glass they are

03:36

crisper uh they got a little bit more

03:38

light transmission um which doesn't

03:41

matter until it does if I'm shooting in

03:43

broad daylight uh I'm shooting a match

03:47

and uh you know even if it's cloudy

03:49

overhead I'm getting like 98% light

03:53

transmission through this optic I'm fine

03:54

it doesn't matter if I am on a hunt and

03:58

I'm running an lpv o on like an elk hunt

04:01

up north and I've spent a bunch of money

04:03

for that tag and a bunch of money for

04:05

the Outfitter and I've taken my two

04:07

weeks of vacation for the year to try to

04:09

bag an elk and the elk trots out there

04:12

and the sun has gone down and I don't

04:14

have night vision on this thing then I

04:17

need as much light Gathering as I can

04:19

possibly get and I'm going to want as

04:21

close to 100% light Gathering as I can

04:24

get if I spent that much money on that

04:26

elk hunt and I'm 15 grand into that elk

04:29

hunt to begin with go ahead and buy that

04:31

primary arms with a Japanese glass and

04:34

you'll get a little bit of a benefit you

04:36

might be able to see that out take that

04:38

shot get your trophy whatever right so

04:41

it's it's one of those things where it

04:42

doesn't matter until it does right so

04:44

the customer needs to decide how much

04:46

performance am I willing to pay for in a

04:49

realm of diminishing returns because I

04:51

can go way past even $3,000 and there's

04:53

valid reasons why a March scope will

04:56

cost that much for the guys that are

04:58

doing March scope stuff you know um they

05:02

demand that performance level it matters

05:04

to them for what they're doing you stick

05:06

me behind the rifle I see I can't really

05:07

be that much of a scope's knob you put

05:09

me behind a night Force attacker and I'm

05:11

like wow that's a really nice scope with

05:12

great glass but the light comes in

05:14

through the front it bounces around in

05:16

here and gets flipped and does all that

05:18

stuff it comes out the back here what's

05:20

the last thing the light hits before it

05:22

hits my eye by $200 set of glasses that

05:25

are all scratched to hell and I've

05:27

they're not even look I've got like a

05:28

rubber piece on this side and not on the

05:30

other side it goes through this before

05:32

it hits my eye so can I even perceive

05:35

the difference between an attacker and a

05:37

Vortex J not really not with these

05:40

eyeballs not with the stuff that I'm

05:41

doing but someone can and it's worth

05:43

extra money to them so I had that same

05:45

experience hunting where a scope that I

05:48

thought in fact in this case it was this

05:50

whole Scout scope concept oh gosh and on

05:52

the Range it was fine it worked and then

05:54

I discovered actually hunting the

05:58

percentage of times when the sun is is

05:59

very low and it's either coming pretty

06:01

close to in this way or pretty close to

06:03

in this way and now there's problems

06:05

with the whole Scout scope concept but

06:08

that never happened you know I didn't go

06:10

zero the rifle at 6:30 in the morning

06:13

right so if I'm going to take this to a

06:16

two gun match that's going to be in the

06:19

day in Arizona yeah do a desert

06:20

brutality with it or something right

06:21

could probably put Vaseline on the front

06:23

of the lens and still do fairly well

06:25

I'll get plenty of light through it yeah

06:26

but that's different than the hunting

06:28

application so so there there are

06:30

differences are you willing to pay for

06:32

them you know another difference is

06:33

retical illumination so this is a second

06:36

focal plane uh lpvo so second focal

06:39

plane is the one where um no matter how

06:42

I zoom in or out relative to the field

06:44

of view inside my scope the reticle is

06:47

always the same size so that means that

06:50

my bullet drop that goes out to 600

06:52

yards on this is only going to be valid

06:54

at 10 power right if I have it sets at

06:58

six and I try to take a 400 yard shot

07:00

with my reticle I'm it's a Miss every

07:02

time right right so then there's first

07:05

focal plane reticles we're going to have

07:06

one of those I worked on it for two

07:08

months I was obsessed with it and we'll

07:11

have a 1 to eight in second focal plane

07:13

like this and a 1 to eight in first

07:14

focal plane and the problem with the

07:16

first focal plane lpv is that when you

07:18

go to one power the middle of that

07:20

reticle disappears right it's just gone

07:23

down to just a big SI ah right so then

07:25

what you do is you crank your

07:27

illumination all the way up to 11 and

07:29

you use it like a Red Dot right if you

07:32

have the night Force attacker the the

07:36

Razer gen 3 the primary arms that I

07:39

mentioned doesn't have that refractive

07:41

reticle illumination that's why they're

07:43

at a $1600 price point those retical by

07:46

themselves are stupid expensive okay

07:48

they are incredibly expensive to get

07:50

that diffractive illumination that

07:51

nuclear bride illumination and I don't

07:53

have that so I have to crutch it in some

07:56

other way um I have to design my reticle

07:59

very care carefully so it can be seen at

08:00

one power without the sort of benefit of

08:05

uh the $2,500 price level amazing

08:08

nuclear Brite

08:10

illumination do you need the nuclear

08:12

Brite illumination because you've got a

08:13

first focal plane scope and it's your

08:15

goto um you know do or die then yeah

08:19

it's a really good idea to have that

08:20

right not not totally frivolous right

08:22

it's not frivolous but I've had good

08:25

used 4x4 trucks that cost me less than a

08:27

night Force attacker right there's

08:29

there's there's a an opportunity cost to

08:33

all of this right you know and bluntly

08:36

uh a mutual friend of ours uh does have

08:39

an attacker and on a very nice lwrc gun

08:42

and he saved up money for like five

08:45

years to build his ultimate AR and then

08:47

he took it out and he's with match great

08:49

ammo he's hitting like four M MOA and

08:52

he's like what's wrong with it is it my

08:53

Mount you know I'm like no you got a

08:55

$250 mount on there it's not your Mount

08:57

Well's is it my ammo no it's not your

08:59

ammo

09:00

it's that you saved up money for 5 years

09:02

and got no repetitions on rifle and you

09:04

don't know how to shoot you could have

09:06

bought a $400 lpvo and built a skill set

09:09

and gone and shot matches and you'd have

09:12

four years of experience on how to pull

09:14

a trigger and you'd be that'd be a sub

09:16

rifle in the right hands but now you're

09:18

not the right hands because you spent

09:19

five years not shooting and saving up

09:21

money so you could be better and then he

09:23

kind of went oh crap yeah so what you

09:26

need to do is start going to matches and

09:27

get your butt kicked by guys with $400

09:29

lpos for a couple of years and then

09:32

you'll be worthy of the money that you

09:34

spent I've had some places where people

09:36

ask me for a recommendation and I will

09:38

recommend just the totally standard

09:41

basic like I'm looking for a good pistol

09:43

like you know what get a Glock find a

09:45

used Glock and it's not worth buying

09:48

something better until you can

09:49

articulate specifically what the better

09:51

thing will do that you need it to do yes

09:53

and I can very much see that being

09:56

appropriate foros if you're buying it

09:58

because you're favorite YouTube guy said

10:00

this is the one the Navy Seals used it's

10:02

your money but I know I I'm his money

10:07

yeah from being in that position I it

10:09

probably was not his money to paid for

10:11

it right exactly so yeah if you don't if

10:14

you don't know why this is worth more

10:16

money then do more research talk to

10:19

people that shoot you know all right so

10:21

ibox is a tricky thing the higher in

10:24

magnification you get the tighter that

10:26

eyebox gets that's right there's no way

10:30

that is physics like I could get a $200

10:32

scope off AliExpress and it's going to

10:35

have the same eyebox if the tube and the

10:37

magnification are the same physical size

10:39

it's really close there's a few little

10:41

tricks that you can pull with your

10:43

Optical design to try to maximize it but

10:46

basically you know the basic formula

10:48

which I think is uh you know opt uh

10:51

ocular lens diameter divided by

10:54

magnification that basic formula is math

10:57

you can't you can't defeat math and you

10:59

can go look at the different websites

11:01

look at the different manufacturers and

11:03

look at their spec sheets go on Optics

11:04

Planet and look at they've got specs for

11:06

all their Scopes what is the exit pupil

11:09

there's a shaft of light that comes out

11:10

the back of this optic what's the

11:12

diameter of that shaft of light I have

11:14

to line up my eyeball with that shaft of

11:16

light to look through it all of these 1

11:18

to 10 are 2.3 2.5 2.6 millimeters I'm

11:25

lining up a 2.6 millimeter shaft of

11:27

light with a 4mm puple in my eye yeah

11:30

that's going to be kind of slow and

11:31

picky you know at that magnification

11:34

right and that's why you see on

11:36

Precision rifles where they've got like

11:38

a five to 25 on there now we got a 25

11:41

magnification optic that's why Precision

11:43

rifles always have those cool adjustable

11:46

stocks where that there's a cheek and

11:48

you can you can tilt it just right and

11:50

you can extend it and it's got little

11:51

wheels everywhere that's so you can put

11:53

your face in the same time on the rifle

11:55

every time it's on the stock the exact

11:57

same way so your eye lines up with that

11:59

tiny little exit pupil the same way

12:02

every time and that's why Precision

12:03

rifles have those crazy expensive

12:05

adjustable socks okay the bigger your

12:07

magnification gets the worse it is to

12:10

look through the scope and there's no

12:12

there's no escaping that you cannot

12:13

negotiate with math math will win now

12:15

what about weight because there's

12:17

definitely I'm sure there's some way you

12:19

can save money on weight for

12:22

um so save weight with money save weight

12:25

with money uh yes and no

12:27

again so so you ever taken all the guts

12:31

out of a Glock frame and you're just

12:33

holding the plastic frame and you're

12:35

like oh this is nothing it's like it's

12:38

like paper in your hands it's so thin

12:39

that thin polymer a scope body without

12:43

the glass is like that okay if you have

12:46

this aluminum body and I don't have any

12:47

of the guts in it it's astonishingly

12:49

light it's amazingly light I filled it

12:52

up with big thick heavy chunks of glass

12:55

in the future someday I predict we'll

12:58

have fully multi-coated glass front

13:01

fully multi-coated glass rear and the

13:03

inside will be polymer

13:05

lenses one day because it doesn't matter

13:08

if they get they can't get scratched up

13:09

in here right not if the abrasion

13:11

doesn't matter because they're internal

13:12

right that will save us weight one day

13:15

but they can't do it yet because you

13:17

lose too much light transmission you get

13:19

distortions you get chromatic aberration

13:21

all the stuff that you don't want so

13:23

they're working on it but we're not

13:25

there yet that will save weight across

13:27

the board right now now all these lpv 1

13:30

to 6 1 to8 1 to 10 they're all pretty

13:33

much the same size and weight with one

13:35

exception and I have to give props to a

13:37

former employer of mine primary arms um

13:41

primary arms has a 1 to8 Platinum ja

13:45

Japanese made optic and they had a long

13:48

gestation period with that optic and

13:51

they basically challenged their Japanese

13:53

manufacturer and said we want to do lpvo

13:56

stuff can we make it smaller and lighter

13:58

and they they for years they've been

14:00

working on this and that optic just won

14:02

its first contract with the Department

14:04

of energy so the doe so the doe is

14:06

rocking primary arms now and it is

14:09

significantly smaller and lighter and as

14:11

far as I'm concerned it's witchcraft I

14:13

have no idea how they managed to

14:15

accomplish that but that what they did

14:17

was somehow somebody had a breakthrough

14:20

in Optical design Optical engineering

14:23

one of the real Engineers that has a

14:24

degree in the math figured out a way to

14:27

cut out a lens or to make a lens thinner

14:30

or to make a laminate lens where you

14:32

have it's one lens but it's really three

14:34

shapes inside it so it does the light

14:35

bending of multiple lenses I don't know

14:38

how um I should like buy one and take a

14:40

saw all to it and cut it in half and see

14:42

right but but that shows that it's

14:45

possible right so primary arms the first

14:47

one they got this one dat that's super

14:49

light and and and and it's shorter and

14:51

everything and apparently they didn't

14:52

give up anything it doesn't have bad

14:54

Optical qualities it doesn't have a

14:56

narrow depth of field it's a home run um

15:18

[Music]

15:59

these down the road the illumination

16:00

conks out guys have to call Bob at

16:03

customer service hey my illumination

16:04

won't work and then it's an RMA and they

16:06

get another optic from us right how do

16:08

we prevent that well we could do one

16:09

that's not illuminated at all and

16:10

there's less to go wrong okay right so

16:13

there's a there's cost and complexity

16:15

and those things but I don't think

16:16

weight is really that much of a factor

16:18

when it comes to illumination stuff it

16:20

really is the glass that's it's the

16:21

glass is so heavy um yeah it's such a

16:24

high percentage of the Optics weight so

16:27

what about repeatability of your

16:29

adjustments right is that how much of

16:31

that is involved in price point the

16:34

lowend ones really just as good no they

16:36

are not uh and and and we had a talk in

16:39

a previous video about quality control

16:41

yeah that's very true with with turrets

16:44

so these turrets are exposed locking

16:46

turrets I can't turn it I can't turn it

16:48

I have to pull it up and I can then have

16:51

tactile and audible clicks once I've

16:54

made my adjustment I can either set it

16:56

back to zero if I want to or I can just

16:58

push it down a lock it either way

16:59

whatever my preference is there's a

17:02

spline on here there where my outer

17:04

turret hits my inner turret and the

17:06

number of teeth on the spline is much

17:08

less than the number of adjustments that

17:10

I have on on this that's etched on the

17:13

outside of this turret right so if I

17:16

play with this enough and I have enough

17:18

permutations of taking it on putting it

17:20

off taking it on putting it off and

17:22

spinning this around I can get to where

17:25

I have my indicator on the scope body in

17:27

between two hash marks

17:30

on this optic right it's in between two

17:32

so it's between the number 44 and the

17:34

number

17:35

44.1 in a on10th you know mil adjusted

17:39

or half mo mo whichever whatever it

17:42

is in a $2500 optic

17:46

unacceptable right again does that mean

17:50

that they have that their five AIS CNC

17:53

machines are better than R5 AIS CSD

17:55

machines maybe but I have this Theory

17:58

once you really understand this it's

18:01

almost terrifying when you think about

18:03

the world economy and globally sourced

18:05

parts and our standard of living and and

18:08

what what we're making what we're paying

18:10

each other if I have a 5axis TNC machine

18:13

and it's at the Colt Factory in Hartford

18:15

Connecticut and I'm a I'm a unionized

18:18

worker making $35 an hour and at $35 an

18:22

hour I hit the start button it makes a

18:25

turret you know right it makes a part

18:27

that I programmed in that scene

18:29

I take that CNC machine and I move it to

18:33

koala lumur or I move it to French Guana

18:35

or I move it to Vietnam some place

18:37

that's that's you know was Communist and

18:40

is discovering capitalism I plug it into

18:43

a wall there in Vietnam and a guy who

18:45

makes $4 a day and feeds his whole

18:47

family on that by the way hits the start

18:49

button it doesn't say well I'm in

18:51

Vietnam now I'm going to make crappy

18:52

parts the CNC machine does not care it

18:55

makes the same part wherever you plug it

18:58

into any where in the

18:59

world let that sink in because it's a

19:02

little scary okay that's reality yeah so

19:06

I don't know that Vortex can make

19:08

turrets that are perfect every time for

19:10

their Generation 3 1 to 10 I do know

19:13

that their turrets are better than ours

19:15

because they're discarding all of the

19:16

imperfect ones they all go into a pile

19:19

of aluminum and a pile of stainless

19:20

steel and a pile of of of brass or

19:22

copper or whatever and then they melt

19:24

that stuff down and they try again right

19:26

it's the it's the discard pile and you

19:28

pay for all the discards when you pay

19:30

for the scope you're not just paying for

19:32

this one you're paying for all the parts

19:33

that they threw away getting you a more

19:36

high quality result so I don't know how

19:40

much of that is that their tooling and

19:41

their Machinery is better and how much

19:43

of that is that their QC is better but

19:45

either way if you want perfect turrets

19:47

you will pay through the nose for

19:48

perfect turrets so that really is an

19:50

area where money translates pretty

19:53

efficiently into better performance it

19:54

does if you actually need that

19:57

performance right because if if I'm at

19:59

if this is half MOA per click and I'm in

20:03

between two clicks then at 300

20:07

yards I have a 1.5 in shift depending on

20:11

if I'm at number 44 or at the hash Mar

20:13

next to it I'm 1.5 Ines off at 300 yards

20:17

do I care can tell I I don't right like

20:20

is was that the thing that made me go

20:22

there instead of there or was it wind

20:24

was it ammo was it my finger on the

20:26

trigger was it that my eye wasn't quite

20:28

behind you know there's like all these

20:30

other factors and if you're shooting PRS

20:33

and you're shooting these you know

20:34

Precision cost money what those guys are

20:36

spending tons of money to do is to

20:38

eliminate as many factors as possible so

20:40

then they can say aha I missed my wind

20:43

call not oh it could have been my Mound

20:46

it could have been my Parallax setting

20:47

it could have been this it could have

20:48

been that they want to spend money to

20:49

get rid of all those variables so then

20:52

they know which variables to focus on

20:54

you know for their for their application

20:56

if that's you then it's worth the money

20:58

to you to do that I'm happy as a clam to

21:01

take a 5.56 gun and ring steal at 600

21:04

yards before that caliber is totally out

21:06

of gas if I can get this gun to 600

21:08

yards on steel for $400 yes please sign

21:11

me up yeah I'll take it and think about

21:14

all the history that you've looked at

21:16

the amazing thing is how much progress

21:17

there's been made and how much higher

21:19

our expectations are massive look at

21:22

look at the history of what you've

21:24

you've done on the channel if I told

21:27

someone if I told your Channel

21:29

10 years ago that I'd have a parts built

21:33

AR that I you know got a piece from here

21:35

and a piece from there on Black Friday

21:36

sale and I cerakoted it and I have a

21:39

$400 Chinese made scope and I'm going to

21:41

shoot bulk Pack 55 grain you know PMC or

21:46

whatever and I'm G to hit it 600 yards

21:48

every time you would laugh in my

21:51

face generally speaking the accuracy

21:54

standard for World War II rifles was

21:56

about 4 Moa right maybe five or six in

21:59

some cases and the sniper rifles weren't

22:02

much better than that right I had a

22:04

friend who over spent a lot of money on

22:06

one of the original pu sniper the the

22:08

the MOs and the GS with a real pu on it

22:10

it's all numbers match everything he

22:11

spent a lot of money for it I said hey

22:14

how's it shoot and he said the Scopes to

22:16

help you see how much you missed

22:20

by yeah whoops which makes you wonder

22:23

about the svts are those things replaced

22:25

because the svts weren't accurate right

22:28

well and even on our side we had the M1

22:30

grand snipers and they weren't around

22:32

for very long because they that you know

22:34

it had a scope on it but the real world

22:36

performance just was nothing like what's

22:39

available to a civilian for you know you

22:41

could put one of these together now for

22:44

you know $1,200 in an AR like this and

22:47

and man you are golden compared to most

22:50

military weapons throughout the 20th

22:52

century you're golden so we're in an

22:55

amazing age right now even a lot of

22:56

military weapons currently in service

22:58

today when you get outside of like first

23:01

tier first world major militaries and

23:04

you look at what second and third world

23:06

countries have as actual military

23:09

issue it's rough this this the AI

23:12

generated stereotypical show AR yeah

23:16

this is a great AR it really is but I

23:18

asked I asked an AI bot to make me a uh

23:21

an image of an AR15 at Shot Show and it

23:23

came up with this so but even this would

23:27

blow away a lot of the stuff that's

23:29

being used in places around oh yeah well

23:31

I mean I I remember uh remember the

23:33

attack in bezan in in Russia right the

23:36

terrorist they blew up the school and

23:37

killed all these kids and they they they

23:39

they sort of they escaped and they ran

23:41

through the hinterland I had like a I

23:44

felt so guilty I felt personally guilty

23:46

because I W I'm obsessed by the footage

23:48

of this and I'm getting updates and I'm

23:49

watching it and these guys are like

23:51

chasing these guys with like iron

23:53

sighted SKS rifles terrorists that

23:55

killed children and they're they've got

23:57

a 10 ironsight at SKS and I'm I'm

24:00

thinking to myself I got better stuff in

24:02

my closet yeah oh no you know like I

24:06

felt guilty like like I felt so bad you

24:09

know they these guys have they have

24:10

nothing but that's that's kind of why I

24:13

do what I do you know to get on my soap

24:15

boox for a second I want the blue

24:20

collar ordinary dude who's got two kids

24:23

hi facel hi Kayla who are they trying to

24:26

figure out how they're GNA pay for their

24:27

college

24:29

and you know like they they got a job

24:32

that's not that great and they don't

24:33

like their boss that much I lucky I like

24:35

my boss they're working for the weekend

24:38

and they just want to ring some steel

24:39

and they want to compete

24:41

right they deserve they deserve to have

24:45

something at a at a high level the

24:47

second amendment applies to that guy he

24:50

has a right to defend his family has a

24:51

right to defend his life he has the

24:52

right to have fun with guns let's make

24:55

it fun and and if I can help those guys

24:58

buy into the Second Amendment I will the

25:01

Second Amendment is for you you can

25:02

afford this go do the thing it's it's

25:05

you can do amazing things with a rifle

25:07

like this with some practice and some

25:08

ammo go do it because the whole stop

25:12

being poor thing nothing makes me more

25:13

mad than that you know this so well if

25:16

you can't afford a $10,000 rifle then

25:17

just keep a baseball bat under your bed

25:19

and throw some ninja stars at him you

25:21

loser no the second amendment applies to

25:24

all of us and that's why I love this

25:27

startup mode this this budget area where

25:31

I'm at this is my Lane man uh I believe

25:35

in that down to my bottom of my feet you

25:37

know I think that's pretty clear to

25:39

everybody yeah I love it so anyway

25:42

that's lpvo they're not dead that's when

25:45

they were getting hate clicks on on

25:47

YouTube lpv are dead they're over no

25:49

they're not no they're totally they're

25:51

totally not no we could go into when do

25:53

you want lpvo and when do you want a

25:55

prism versus when do you want a red

25:57

that's a that's a whole that's a whole

25:59

series of YouTube videos but I love it

26:01

that everybody else is also already I'm

26:03

still a red dot plus magnifier guy I I

26:06

love red dots and magnifiers yeah all of

26:08

the above man all of the above yeah all

26:11

right we'll get into that later uh if

26:13

you are looking for an inexpensive but

26:16

very capable lpvo Gideon Optics Gideon

26:19

optics.com you also do pistol dots and I

26:23

got a little prism scope yeah prism

26:24

Scopes we're expanding out you got a

26:27

good pistol dots anyway Ian I appreciate

26:29

it so much this has been a lot of fun my

26:31

pleasure hopefully you guys enjoyed the

26:32

video thanks for

26:39

watching

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