"We Don't Know How Long We Have Left" Eric Weinstein On Nuclear Threat To Humanity

Piers Morgan Uncensored
7 Mar 202450:59

Summary

TLDRIn this thought-provoking conversation, Dr. Eric Weinstein, a mathematician and intellectual figure, discusses a wide range of topics, from the complexities of global politics and the potential dangers of AI to the challenges of free speech and the state of academia. He shares his insights on the importance of intellectual diversity, the need for civil discourse, and the critical role of scientific inquiry in understanding our world. Dr. Weinstein also addresses the controversial nature of the 'intellectual dark web' and his views on the current state of higher education, emphasizing the need for rigorous scholarship and academic freedom.

Takeaways

  • 🌐 Dr. Eric Weinstein is a mathematician known for challenging mainstream narratives and is part of the 'intellectual dark web'.
  • 📚 His PhD dissertation on self-dual Yang-Mills equations in higher dimensions was a significant contribution to mathematical physics.
  • 🤔 Dr. Weinstein believes that the intellectual dark web represents a diversity of viewpoints that mainstream media often fails to honor.
  • 🗣️ He emphasizes the importance of civility in debates and the need for better 'fighting' in intellectual discussions.
  • 🌍 Dr. Weinstein discusses the paradox of living in a seemingly peaceful time while facing existential threats like nuclear weapons.
  • 💡 He highlights the potential dangers of AI and the misconceptions about its capabilities, contrasting it with the immediate threat of nuclear weapons.
  • 🚨 Dr. Weinstein expresses concern over the lack of public awareness about the dangers of nuclear weapons and the need to reacquaint society with these risks.
  • 📈 He criticizes the handling of information during the COVID-19 pandemic and the lack of transparency in scientific communication.
  • 🎓 Dr. Weinstein advocates for a return to rigor, scholarship, and collegiality in universities, suggesting a 'civil war' to purge activist subjects.
  • 🚫 He refuses to provide statistical probabilities for events, citing the low quality of such exercises and the potential for misinterpretation on the internet.

Q & A

  • What is Dr. Eric Weinstein's educational background?

    -Dr. Eric Weinstein received his PhD in mathematical physics from Harvard University in 1992. His dissertation was on the extension of self-dual Yang-Mills equations across the eighth dimension.

  • How does Dr. Weinstein view the concept of the 'intellectual dark web'?

    -Dr. Weinstein sees the 'intellectual dark web' as a group of thinkers who challenge mainstream narratives and do not accept everything the mainstream media presents to the public. He emphasizes the importance of civility and intellectual debate within this group.

  • What are Dr. Weinstein's thoughts on the current state of the world in terms of global threats?

    -Dr. Weinstein believes that the greatest threat is the potential for nuclear war, as humanity now has the power to end the human project. He also mentions the importance of understanding the complexities of international relations and the dangers of misinformation.

  • How does Dr. Weinstein feel about the role of free speech in society?

    -Dr. Weinstein supports free speech but acknowledges that there are limits, such as libel laws and export controls. He is concerned about the exploitation of free speech to spread disinformation and personal attacks.

  • What is Dr. Weinstein's perspective on the COVID-19 pandemic and the scientific response?

    -Dr. Weinstein criticizes the scientific community for not being transparent about the origins of the virus and for changing policies without admitting to initial failures. He believes that scientists should be given the freedom to ask questions and seek truth.

  • How does Dr. Weinstein view the role of universities in the current academic and scientific landscape?

    -Dr. Weinstein is critical of universities for prioritizing diversity, equity, and inclusion over academic rigor and scholarship. He advocates for a return to a more traditional academic environment focused on intellectual freedom and collegiality.

  • What is Dr. Weinstein's stance on the use of ivermectin as a treatment for COVID-19?

    -Dr. Weinstein does not fully support his brother Brett's views on ivermectin as a near-perfect prophylactic. He believes that the scientific community should be open to exploring various treatments but also emphasizes the importance of rigorous scientific inquiry.

  • How does Dr. Weinstein describe his Theory of Everything?

    -Dr. Weinstein's Theory of Everything suggests that we live in a 14-dimensional world, with our perceived four-dimensional reality being a projection of this higher-dimensional data. He compares it to playing a record on a phonograph, where the stylus represents Einstein's Space-Time metric and the gramophone is our four-dimensional world.

  • What are Dr. Weinstein's views on the future of science and academia?

    -Dr. Weinstein believes that there needs to be a significant shift in academia to purge it of activist subjects and return to a focus on rigorous scholarship. He sees the need for a 'civil war' within universities to restore academic freedom and intellectual diversity.

  • How does Dr. Weinstein plan to address the issues he sees in academia?

    -Dr. Weinstein plans to use his large following and podcast to amplify voices that need to be heard and to challenge the status quo. He hopes to outlive the current generation of string theorists and promote a more open and ethical scientific environment.

Outlines

00:00

🌟 Introduction to Dr. Eric Weinstein

Dr. Eric Weinstein, a Harvard-trained mathematician, is known for his intellectual contributions across various fields. He is a prominent figure in the 'intellectual dark web,' engaging in debates that challenge mainstream narratives. His expertise spans topics like Putin, Ukraine, globalization, and even Jeffrey Epstein. Dr. Weinstein emphasizes the importance of intellectual curiosity and civil discourse, despite political divides.

05:03

🌍 Global Issues and Personal Struggles

The conversation delves into global issues such as the state of the world, the impact of nuclear weapons, and the anxiety of modern life. Dr. Weinstein discusses the paradox of living in a statistically better time yet feeling angst-ridden. He also shares his personal struggles with dyslexia and how it shaped his intellectual journey. The discussion touches on the importance of civility in debates and the challenges of understanding complex global dynamics.

10:04

🗣️ The Intellectual Dark Web and Nuclear Concerns

Dr. Weinstein reflects on the intellectual dark web's approach to differing political views and the importance of respectful debates. He expresses concern over the potential for nuclear conflict, particularly due to cultural misunderstandings and the complexity of modern game theory. The conversation also explores the role of AI and the potential dangers it poses, compared to nuclear weapons.

15:05

🤔 The Ethics of Nuclear Weapons

The discussion continues with the ethics of nuclear weapons, the potential for misuse, and the need for moral and intelligent stewardship. Dr. Weinstein questions the ability of humans to handle such power responsibly, drawing parallels to the dangers of AI. He also addresses the impact of social media on public perception and the importance of understanding the true nature of scientific advancements.

20:06

🌐 Geopolitical Strategy and Media Influence

Dr. Weinstein critiques the public-spirited fictions perpetuated by Western institutions and the media, arguing that they are not competent or minimal. He discusses the complexities of geopolitical strategy, particularly in relation to Ukraine and Russia, and the lack of transparency in statecraft. The conversation highlights the need for a more nuanced understanding of international relations and the dangers of oversimplification.

25:08

💬 Free Speech and the Role of Wikipedia

The conversation turns to the limits of free speech, the role of Wikipedia as a source of information, and the challenges of disinformation. Dr. Weinstein shares his experiences with Wikipedia edits and the struggle for accuracy. He also discusses the impact of free speech on public discourse, the rise of personal attacks, and the need for a more thoughtful approach to the exchange of ideas.

30:09

🦠 COVID-19 Origins and Scientific Integrity

Dr. Weinstein addresses the debate surrounding the origins of COVID-19, the changing scientific consensus, and the importance of honesty in public health. He criticizes the lack of transparency and the potential geopolitical implications of the pandemic. The conversation emphasizes the need for rigorous scientific inquiry and the dangers of political interference in science.

35:11

🌌 The Theory of Everything and Scientific Ethics

Dr. Weinstein discusses his theory, which suggests a 14-dimensional world underlying our perceived four-dimensional reality. He expresses frustration with the scientific community's resistance to new ideas and the need for a return to rigorous scholarship. The conversation also touches on his plans to use his platform to promote scientific integrity and the importance of academic freedom.

40:11

🎓 The State of Universities and the Future of Academia

Dr. Weinstein calls for a 'civil war' within universities to purge them of activist subjects and restore academic rigor, collegiality, and freedom of speech. He criticizes the current system for promoting intolerance and the need to exclude those who undermine academic integrity. The discussion highlights the importance of adult supervision in academia to ensure the survival of intellectual discourse.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Intellectual Dark Web

A term used to describe a loosely connected group of intellectuals and thinkers who engage in open and often controversial discussions across political divides. In the video, Dr. Eric Weinstein is mentioned as a prominent figure within this group, challenging mainstream narratives and fostering debate.

💡Free Speech

The concept of the right to express one's opinions publicly without censorship or restraint. Dr. Weinstein discusses the limits of free speech, emphasizing that it is not absolute and can be restricted for the public good.

💡Nuclear Weapons

Weapons that derive their destructive force from nuclear reactions, specifically nuclear fission or fusion. Dr. Weinstein expresses concern about the potential for nuclear conflict and the importance of understanding the cultural differences in attitudes towards nuclear weapons.

💡Globalization

The process by which businesses or other organizations develop international influence or start operating on an international scale. Dr. Weinstein touches on globalization as a topic he tackles, likely in the context of its impact on various aspects of society and economy.

💡Dyslexia

A learning disorder characterized by difficulty reading due to problems identifying speech sounds and learning how they relate to letters and words. Dr. Weinstein refers to his own struggles with dyslexia, highlighting it as a personal challenge that speaks to the triumph of will.

💡Group Think

A psychological phenomenon that occurs within a group of people, in which the desire for harmony or conformity in the group results in an irrational or dysfunctional decision-making outcome. Dr. Weinstein criticizes this concept, advocating for diverse viewpoints and critical thinking.

💡Civility

The state or quality of being polite and respectful in behavior or speech. Dr. Weinstein emphasizes the importance of civility in discussions, suggesting that it is necessary for productive debates and the ability to tease out differences constructively.

💡Yang-Mills Equations

A set of partial differential equations that describe the interactions of elementary particles in the Standard Model of particle physics. Dr. Weinstein's dissertation work on extending these equations across higher dimensions is mentioned, showcasing his mathematical and theoretical physics expertise.

💡Cultural Difference

The variations in customs, traditions, and social behavior among different cultures. Dr. Weinstein discusses cultural differences, particularly between Russia and the West, in the context of nuclear weapons and their use.

💡Public-Spirited Fictions

The concept that certain lies or half-truths told for the greater good or to maintain social order are necessary in governance. Dr. Weinstein criticizes these fictions when they are not public-spirited, meaning they do not serve the common good and are not minimal or competent.

Highlights

Dr. Eric Weinstein discusses the intellectual dark web and its role in challenging mainstream narratives.

Weinstein's views on the potential for nuclear conflict and the cultural differences in perceptions of nuclear weapons.

The importance of civility in debates and the loss of the ability to have constructive disagreements.

Weinstein's perspective on the state of the world, contrasting statistical improvements with widespread anxiety.

His thoughts on the influence of science and the potential dangers of AI becoming sentient.

Weinstein's critique of public-spirited fictions and the lies told by institutions.

His views on the handling of the COVID-19 pandemic and the changing scientific advice.

Weinstein's stance on free speech and its limitations, including the challenges posed by social media.

His thoughts on the role of universities in society and the need for a return to academic rigor and collegiality.

Weinstein's Theory of Everything and his views on the nature of our reality being a 14-dimensional world.

His approach to dealing with the challenges faced by the intellectual dark web and his plans for a podcast to amplify voices.

Weinstein's views on the need for a 'civil war' in universities to restore academic freedom and intellectual honesty.

His critique of the current state of universities and the impact of diversity, equity, and inclusion on academic rigor.

Weinstein's thoughts on the role of social media in shaping public discourse and the quality of debate.

His views on the importance of understanding the complexities of international relations, such as the situation in Ukraine.

Weinstein's perspective on the limitations of free speech and the need for a more nuanced understanding of its role in society.

Transcripts

00:01

Dr Eric Weinstein is a Harvard trained

00:03

mathematician and a Titan of the

00:05

so-called intellectual dark web they're

00:07

the big iconic clastic thinkers who span

00:10

political divides to challenge

00:11

mainstream narratives stoking

00:13

controversy and debate along the

00:16

way Dr Weinstein tackles everything from

00:19

Putin and Ukraine to globalization and

00:21

Jeffrey Epstein's become a superstar

00:23

guest on the world's biggest podcast and

00:25

streaming shows you met Jeffrey Epstein

00:29

the hero from the back of my neck stood

00:31

on end there are people that you need in

00:33

your dark hours and as soon as they

00:35

emerge we tar them with and now he

00:38

goes

00:39

unsensitive I'm always surprised when

00:42

people with your kind of intellect um

00:45

wrestle with any kind of quandry about

00:48

Russian dictator invading Sovereign

00:50

Democratic country powerful Nations like

00:53

Russia have concerns that don't have to

00:56

do only with their exact borders I mean

00:58

do you think anyone like like Putin who

01:00

has 6,000 nuclear weapons at his

01:02

disposal would want to start a war that

01:05

would obliterate everything hand

01:07

somebody a pair of nunchucks uh they're

01:09

most likely to knock themselves out

01:11

rather than to become Bruce Le we sit

01:12

here with a ticking Time Bomb we don't

01:14

know how long we have the four most

01:17

overrated things in life were Lobster

01:20

champagne anal sex and picnics I don't

01:23

really know much about champagne perhaps

01:25

the next question are there any limits

01:28

to free speech it has morphed more into

01:31

a question of what what can I get away

01:34

with that might not be true I've got 10

01:37

things rapid fire no no no yeah I declin

01:40

no I'm I'm quite

01:44

serious Eric wiy great to have you good

01:48

to be with you so I was just checking

01:50

your Wikipedia a minute ago uh and under

01:53

education defaced recently you can

01:56

challenge this if you like but under

01:58

education it said wi te receive his PhD

02:01

in mathematical physics from Harvard

02:02

University in 1992 in his dissertation

02:07

extension of self-dual Yang Mills

02:09

equations across the eighth Dimension

02:12

Weinstein showed that the self-dual Yang

02:14

Mills equations were not peculiar to

02:16

Dimension four and admitted

02:18

generalizations to higher dimensions and

02:20

I realized at that point having read

02:22

that Eric that you and I were probably

02:24

on slightly different intellectual

02:26

Pathways in our lives and this might be

02:29

quite a challenging

02:32

encounter you have a different theory

02:33

about the Yang Mills equation by the way

02:35

that's the most that's the most accurate

02:37

thing I've heard in my Wikipedia entry

02:39

in some time so maybe things are

02:41

improving I mean look obviously you've

02:43

got a massive brain um do you think

02:46

that's been a Force for good or for

02:48

angst in your

02:50

life I see evil isn't on the table um it

02:54

can be I I avoided that yeah yeah yeah I

02:58

mean to be honest uh I hope it's

03:00

inspiring to people with learning

03:03

differences and neurode Divergence

03:05

everywhere I was a terrible student in

03:06

high school um so to me it's quite funny

03:10

I mean I I I don't know what to say it's

03:12

a it's a it speaks to the Triumph of

03:15

Will and the Power of

03:17

Dyslexia the um the intellectual dark

03:20

web as it's called I've interviewed many

03:21

people uh from this Douglas Murray Ben

03:24

of pio Jordan Peterson Professor Steven

03:26

Pinker and so on on the common theme

03:27

seem to be people who just decid that

03:30

they're not going to accept everything

03:32

that the mainstream media pumps out to

03:35

the public they want to challenge uh you

03:38

know what I would call group think they

03:40

want to challenge tribalism certainly

03:42

fueled by social media they just want to

03:44

be I guess annoyingly curious and

03:47

combative about stuff that we're told

03:50

collectively we have to

03:53

believe I think it's a lot more than

03:55

that I mean uh I never explained who was

03:58

in it uh or what it meant so people try

04:01

to wrap ideas around it and one of the

04:03

reasons that it it gained currency was

04:06

that no one had a description for the

04:08

fact that many smart people were not

04:10

going along with the sort of

04:14

intellectual hegemony of the mainstream

04:16

which should represent a huge diversity

04:19

of viewpoints but in fact uh that's only

04:22

honored in the breech uh I think that

04:24

one of the things that is not frequently

04:26

thought about in terms of uh that

04:28

project was the importance of Civility

04:31

it's incredibly difficult to tease out

04:33

our differences when we're yelling at

04:37

each other calling names and in in point

04:41

of fact I believe that we've lost the

04:43

ability to have good fights our fights

04:45

are terrible I totally agree uh we can't

04:48

we can't get good people to sit down

04:50

because without uh intellectual

04:53

Queensbury rules all you get is eye

04:55

gouging and while there's a segment of

04:57

the internet that's always looking uh

04:59

you know for somebody to rip off an arm

05:03

lose a digit um most of us want to live

05:06

to see another day and continue to

05:07

develop our points and even concede when

05:09

the other person has a better one so I

05:11

you know the the the Dirty Little Secret

05:14

of the intellectual dark web is that

05:15

even though we were across the political

05:17

Spectrum we were pretty we were pretty

05:19

darn good to each other for a long time

05:21

and I think that that's the key to

05:22

getting great fights what I've noticed

05:24

is that um Ben Shapiro still has a

05:26

pinned tweet I think facts don't care

05:28

about your feelings

05:30

and I've definitely noticed in debates

05:32

that people go ad hominum very quickly

05:35

and very abusively normally to mask the

05:39

fact that their actual argument is

05:42

devoid of

05:44

fact well when you don't have a point uh

05:47

it's an excellent

05:49

tactic where are we in the world right

05:51

now Eric I mean you you know you've

05:53

you've written and spoken so much about

05:55

the state of the world but you know I

05:57

always say to people that if you

05:59

actually look at it statistically this

06:02

is the best time to ever be alive you

06:04

know we we're living longer we're living

06:05

healthier there's less child poverty the

06:07

a fuel Wars and so on and so on by every

06:10

conceivable metric this is arguably the

06:13

best time to ever be alive and yet so

06:15

many people seem so angst-ridden you

06:17

know young people have an epidemic of

06:19

anxiety um a lot of people having real

06:22

problems just dealing with life when in

06:24

fact compared to all their ancestors

06:27

they've got it good why

06:30

why well see I you've got to stop

06:33

drinking uh with Stephen pinkler picker

06:36

I think uh hey was that see him that

06:37

said that you're right yeah yeah uh well

06:41

this is a terrible idea that was spread

06:42

by Stephen Pinker um and what it is you

06:45

know to to borrow from my physics and Ma

06:48

and math background is uh you can't

06:52

understand the conservation of energy if

06:54

you don't have terms for both potential

06:56

and kinetic energy so if you think about

06:58

what you're talking about you're talking

07:00

about the cessation of all kinds of in

07:02

some sense human kinetic energy from the

07:04

early part of the 20th century with all

07:06

of the you know two two terrible Wars a

07:09

horrible pandemic Etc uh we don't see

07:12

that much in the world only Ma's grap

07:15

Leap Forward I think Rises to that level

07:17

of

07:18

atrocity um so that has been a huge

07:20

Improvement the problem is why that is

07:23

the case which is largely because in

07:26

1952 53 over six months we acquired ired

07:30

the secrets to both the atom and the

07:33

cell um so with the first Hydrogen Bomb

07:36

named Ivy Mike in the Pacific and Watson

07:38

and cric's elucidation of the double

07:40

helix structure for nucleic acid uh we

07:43

became Godlike in terms of our power and

07:46

as a result we acquired the first time

07:50

uh for the first time the ability to end

07:52

the human project and I think it's the

07:54

loss of an indefinite human future uh

07:56

future that has to be restored and no

07:58

one can figure out how to do it so we

08:00

sit here um effectively uh with a

08:03

ticking Time Bomb we don't know how long

08:05

we have and uh things are very pleasant

08:09

I mean you can you can uh sit in a

08:11

coffee shop and um have a have a

08:14

perfectly good life uh but you never

08:16

know when the end is coming whereas in a

08:18

previous era you didn't know how often

08:20

you were going to be you were going to

08:21

be conscripted into a war but on the

08:24

other hand uh there was no chance of

08:26

humans extinguishing themselves so I

08:27

think you really have to to broaden that

08:30

concept and I would agree with you in

08:31

terms of the

08:32

realized um Terror uh that has engulf

08:37

the world in fact most of it is

08:39

potential Terror did you watch oppenheim

08:41

in the movie sure what did you think of

08:46

it it's very tough

08:49

um I don't think people

08:52

remember that we have this power and

08:56

that it was Unleashed by science and in

08:58

particular it was Unleashed

08:59

by effectively my former colleagues um

09:04

so that you know when you see a cameo

09:06

appearance by Richard Fineman let's say

09:08

uh or at least you know someone uh

09:11

portraying him uh you have to recognize

09:14

that these are the people who

09:16

unleashed the uh the Doomsday scenario

09:19

and for me because we ceased exploding

09:24

atmospheric nuclear weapons in 1962 I

09:27

believe uh We've really grown far too I

09:32

don't know how to say it we we're too

09:34

unconcerned with the danger in which we

09:37

live and for me it was an attempt to

09:40

reawaken our self- knowledge and to

09:43

remind ourselves how important science

09:46

is how how you know currently we we say

09:48

that scientists are feeble they don't

09:50

live in the real world and I promise you

09:52

uh you'll be living in their world uh

09:55

for the rest of for the rest of time

09:57

this is very much the real world and it

09:58

was it it was painful in part but it was

10:00

a very intriguing film I mean when

10:03

Vladimir Putin rattles his his nuclear

10:07

saber um which he does regularly as a

10:10

form of trying to intimidate the West in

10:12

particular do you think he means it I

10:14

mean do you think anyone like Putin who

10:17

has 6,000 nuclear weapons at his

10:19

disposal is ever I don't know whether

10:22

the St stupid isn't the right word is is

10:25

ever going to be in a position where he

10:27

would want to start war that would

10:29

obliterate

10:32

everything you can ask the same of us

10:36

yeah but I'm I'm I'm quite

10:39

serious the

10:41

um in terms of a cultural difference the

10:44

Russians regularly use nuclear uh

10:47

explosions for engineering purposes they

10:50

have a comfort with nuclear weapons that

10:52

we lack I think that many Americans do

10:55

not really understand the cultural

10:56

difference between Central and Eastern

10:58

Europe and the modern

11:00

West um which is you know frankly

11:03

terrifying I I really I see

11:05

cross-cultural

11:07

miscommunication as a potential start to

11:09

a nuclear uh nuclear scenario and as

11:12

we've seen from the Cold War there have

11:14

been many situations in which uh if

11:16

there's a glitch in a system and you

11:18

believe that somebody is uh firing upon

11:21

you that uh you're forced to make a very

11:24

tough decision quite honestly humans are

11:26

just not good enough to play this kind

11:29

of game theory and remember that with

11:31

the Cold War it was basically a bipolar

11:34

conflict you're about to move to

11:35

multi-polar Game Theory and I can assure

11:39

you that it's a much less stable

11:41

scenario where you're trying to figure

11:42

out what eight different players are

11:43

doing with regional conflicts and

11:46

unannounced nuclear Powers uh entering

11:49

the frame do you worry more about

11:51

nuclear Armageddon or AI becoming

11:55

sentient I worry about people trying to

11:58

to make AI a more pressing problem than

12:02

nuclear weapons a lot of the cool kids

12:04

in Silicon Valley have developed a meme

12:06

which is that oh AI is far more

12:09

dangerous than

12:10

nukes and that may be in the long run

12:14

but at the moment it's not even it's not

12:16

even close however it feels kind of P to

12:19

worry about nuclear weapons five years

12:21

ago or so I think I started publicly

12:23

calling for rare atmospheric tests of

12:26

nuclear weapons uh because I think the

12:28

greatest danger at the moment is that

12:31

fear of nuclear weapons is seen as out

12:33

of Vogue and we have to reacquaint our

12:36

our viscera with the danger in which we

12:39

live I mean I I did the last interview

12:41

with Professor Steven Hawking before he

12:43

sadly died and I asked him what's the

12:45

biggest threat to Mankind and he said

12:47

when artificial intelligence learns to

12:49

self-design the implication being that

12:51

when it does the first thing it would do

12:53

is probably conclude that humans are

12:55

completely pointless and irrational and

12:58

useless in many cases and they just get

13:00

rid of

13:02

us I don't think that's his best

13:07

work really you're you're not as

13:11

concerned well in the long run I think

13:13

that uh it's a huge concern but if you

13:16

look at what large language models are

13:19

and how quickly humans have confused

13:21

large language models for general

13:24

intelligence uh it tells you that maybe

13:26

more humans need to spend time C and

13:29

understanding the Transformer

13:30

architecture which enabled this uh

13:32

recent mini Revolution I mean it's

13:34

absolutely astounding but mostly what

13:36

these machines are doing are feeding us

13:39

back to us and once they've read all our

13:41

books and read all our papers uh it may

13:44

quite it's easily possible that this

13:47

model and this architecture May Plateau

13:50

but isn't it the same kind of situation

13:52

with nuclear weapons where in you know

13:55

decent hands supposedly decent hands of

13:59

people who have a moral code a code of

14:02

ethics who don't want to do the wrong

14:04

thing um nuclear weapons uh can be

14:07

controlled and can be safe but in

14:09

nefarious hands from people with evil

14:12

intent they become incredibly dangerous

14:14

and I I would say it's the same argument

14:16

with AI isn't

14:19

it I don't agree with the premise so

14:22

maybe ask that to someone else I believe

14:24

that if you take uh 10 very moral people

14:28

and very intelligent people and you give

14:30

them all nuclear weapons and the ability

14:32

to annihilate each other you can play

14:33

all sorts of game theoretic experiments

14:36

and find that we're simply not wise

14:38

enough to solve coordination problems

14:41

and signaling problems I I I I just

14:44

don't agree with this idea that it's our

14:46

morality and our intellect which makes

14:49

nuclear weapons dangerous it is simply

14:52

the power it's like handing a a

14:54

lightsaber to somebody in a Star Wars

14:57

film and uh you know watching them learn

15:01

U by slicing off you know a leg and an

15:03

arm within the first five minutes hand

15:05

hand hand somebody a pair of nunchucks

15:07

uh they're most likely to knock

15:09

themselves out rather than to become

15:10

Bruce Lee yeah but if you have Mother

15:12

Theresa with her finger on the nuclear

15:14

button and Adolf Hitler the chances are

15:16

more likely that it'll be the bad guy

15:19

that presses

15:21

it uh you took two people uh one is much

15:26

worse than the other but those aren't my

15:27

favorites uh

15:29

Mother Teresa I don't I we don't need to

15:31

relitigate the Christopher Hitchens

15:33

point I would say that um I just don't

15:37

know of of these good people who can

15:41

Steward nuclear weapons uh I it's simply

15:45

too much

15:46

power one of your or if you think about

15:48

it in terms of systems uh a democracy is

15:51

capable of having a string of uh you

15:54

know 10 moral ethical leaders and then

15:57

it gets itself into a period of distress

15:59

and suddenly it elect somebody who's

16:01

completely unfit for the office we we

16:03

don't have the ability to live with this

16:06

this amount of Leverage I had a a good

16:08

relationship with Christopher Hitchens I

16:09

employed him actually as a columnist

16:11

when I was editor of Daily Mirror and he

16:13

once sent me one of my favorite emails

16:15

ever which was he said the four most

16:17

overrated things in life were Lobster

16:20

champagne anal sex and

16:25

picnics

16:27

ah I I don't really know much about

16:29

champagne and some of the other items on

16:32

your list don't appeal to me for this

16:34

conversation perhaps the next

16:37

question uh one of your big thoughts is

16:39

that Western institutions including

16:42

politicians scientists the media are

16:44

actively lying to us and we've seen this

16:48

exacerbated by things like the pandemic

16:51

like modern warfare and all the

16:53

propaganda that flies around around it

16:56

how much of of your belief that they're

16:59

lying to us is driven by uh I guess the

17:03

social media element of this where

17:05

everything is Amplified in real time to

17:08

the public in a way it never used to be

17:10

in other words information used to Flow

17:12

To Us in a in a far slower a more

17:15

controlled way whereas now everything is

17:17

coming out as 24/7 in real

17:22

time well you know I I hold an unpopular

17:26

view which is that

17:29

uh

17:30

public-spirited fictions are essential

17:33

to proper governance the problem isn't

17:36

that they're lying to us the problem is

17:38

that the lies are not public spirited

17:41

they are not competent uh they're not

17:44

adult level fictions and they're not uh

17:48

they're not minimal you want to lie as

17:49

little as possible uh a French

17:51

philosopher once said that a nation is a

17:54

collection of people that have agreed to

17:55

forget something in common so in part

17:59

you know if you were to resolve the

18:00

contradictions let's say in the United

18:02

States first

18:03

amendment um you might find that you had

18:07

no Constitution the problem is the

18:10

nature of the laws and they are not

18:13

adult level and I don't mean to boast on

18:14

your program but I have an IQ above 40

18:16

so I find this really distressing that

18:19

I'm constantly asked to believe things

18:21

that uh no child should be asked to

18:25

believe I mean you you tweeted the other

18:27

day about Ukraine and Putin I can't tell

18:28

you my position on us strategy in

18:30

Ukraine if I don't know more all I know

18:33

is that in a democracy I'm being lied to

18:36

and pressure to support something I

18:37

don't sufficiently understand that's it

18:40

I mean you could take that argument in

18:42

1939 and say you know when Hitler

18:44

invaded Poland I don't know enough about

18:46

it I haven't been told enough about it

18:48

by my government therefore I can't take

18:50

a position about Adolf Hitler uh I would

18:54

say that what uh Putin is doing in

18:56

Ukraine is not dissimilar actually and

18:58

but his aspirations may not be quite as

19:00

heinous in terms of global domination as

19:04

as Hitler but no but I would I would say

19:06

his aspirations are heinous and I'm

19:09

always surprised when people with your

19:11

kind of intellect um wrestle with any

19:15

kind of quandy about Russian dictator

19:17

invading Sovereign Democratic country

19:20

and murdering loads of people and

19:21

helping himself loads of land and why

19:24

that shouldn't be in everyone's interest

19:25

to

19:26

repel well I would like to think that's

19:29

because you misunderstand my position um

19:31

but it could be a it could be a failure

19:33

of intellect on my

19:35

part we we're in a very long running

19:38

postc cold war strategy where in 1999 I

19:43

believe we extended Article 5 NATO

19:45

status to

19:47

Poland uh which was not former Soviet

19:50

Union but was Warsaw pack I didn't have

19:53

a problem at that point I think it was

19:54

in 2004 where we extended Article 5

19:59

status to lvia Lithuania and Estonia and

20:02

at that point I clearly felt that I

20:06

didn't understand what we were doing I

20:08

believe that you know Ria is within a

20:12

thousand miles or kilometer I don't even

20:15

know of Moscow and you know because the

20:18

Cuban Missile Crisis was very much top

20:21

of Mind during the part of the Cold War

20:23

that I saw and its aftermath I very well

20:26

remember the concept of America spheres

20:28

of influence that Cuba was not

20:30

considered a Sovereign Nation that could

20:31

choose to do whatever it wanted because

20:33

it was simply too close to the United

20:35

States I think that in part it's the

20:39

desire to only put on one pair of

20:43

glasses one set of lenses The Sovereign

20:45

Nation lens clearly suggests uh that

20:49

Putin is a madman and that his crossing

20:52

of the border of Ukraine um it's a slam

20:57

dunk so so it's not that I don't

20:59

understand your point but then again

21:00

there's another set of glasses which is

21:02

the spheres of influence glasses and

21:05

that says that in fact um powerful

21:07

Nations like Russia have concerns that

21:10

don't have to do only with their exact

21:12

borders and if you look for example at a

21:14

time lapse of the borders in Central and

21:16

Eastern Europe you'll notice that

21:18

they've been fluid for forever if every

21:21

time there is a border Readjustment we

21:23

go to the brink of nuclear war that's

21:25

game over furthermore uh there are very

21:29

complicated relations in Central and

21:31

Eastern Europe and I don't think that

21:33

Americans are particularly Adept uh at

21:37

discussing them and forcing us to say

21:40

Slava Ukraine is as a as a slogan uh you

21:44

know we're not allowed to say glory to

21:46

anything but we're supposed to to be

21:48

100% on board this is a long running

21:51

statecraft level narrative uh clearly

21:54

there was an idea in place as far back

21:57

as the fall of the bird Berlin Wall I

21:59

don't understand what the strategy is it

22:01

might be the right strategy I'm

22:03

certainly not supporting Putin who's an

22:05

absolute brutal Thug uh that's not in

22:08

question the problem is is that we are

22:10

now the stewards of a thermonuclear

22:13

planet and uh the simple application of

22:17

an idea that he crossed the border of a

22:19

Sovereign Nation after everything we've

22:22

been doing in Ukraine and all the games

22:23

that we've played uh I don't think that

22:26

this really makes sense and the problem

22:29

in in as I understand it is that we keep

22:32

telling the audience uh the electorate

22:34

if you will that these incredibly

22:37

simplistic lenses with which we choose

22:39

to view everything are sufficient to

22:41

actually form grown-up opinions and they

22:43

they aren't I mean the irony of course

22:45

is that if Ukraine had not been

22:47

encouraged to give up its nuclear

22:49

defense then Putin is highly unlikely to

22:52

have invaded

22:55

him there are so many choices that we

22:59

have made in terms of how we've handled

23:01

the postc Cold War former uh Soviet

23:05

Union countries and Warsaw pack

23:08

countries I I think you have to

23:10

understand that this is part of a long

23:12

running Grand strategy and it's not

23:15

shared with me this whatever I'm not

23:17

even positive that today's uh State

23:20

Department

23:21

officials are really 100%

23:24

in that they have good knowledge of what

23:26

this extended plan is very often what

23:29

you find is the architects of a

23:31

multi-decade plan die and they don't

23:33

teach their successors what the actual

23:35

strategy was when when Saddam Hussein

23:38

invaded Kuwait did you think it was

23:41

right that American boots were put on

23:43

the ground to kick him out given it

23:44

wasn't a NATO

23:49

country Kuwait in some sense uh is in

23:53

part created as a block so that uh

23:56

Saddam H that Iraq would have the

23:59

tiniest um

24:01

seafront the the creation in some sense

24:05

of states by Colonial powers or um

24:09

accidents of History I I think the the

24:12

the problem here is that Saddam Hussein

24:15

was an absolute

24:17

brute uh but he was a brute in a region

24:20

in which one has to become brutish it is

24:22

astounding the extent to which many

24:24

Iraqis who were relatively middle class

24:27

and new the difficulties of governing in

24:30

that region uh viewed him as an absolute

24:33

brute but were appreciative of of his

24:35

efforts of keeping Iraq relatively

24:37

secular that's not to say that I'm a

24:40

Saddam Hussein supporter far from it

24:42

it's just to say that we keep

24:44

communicating very strange things into

24:47

these

24:48

regions for example when I think it was

24:51

George Herbert Walker Bush who told the

24:53

marsh Arabs in the south of Iraq to rise

24:55

up and then got them slaughtered we we

24:57

have to be very careful in our

24:59

Communications in incredibly different

25:02

regions from our own do you think it's

25:05

really in America's national

25:07

interest that Vladimir Putin could win

25:10

in Ukraine could just seize a vast chunk

25:13

of that country and claim it as Russian

25:18

um as he did with Crimea and this of

25:21

course after invaded Georgia as well I

25:23

mean do you think it's in America's

25:24

national interest that a Russian

25:26

dictator expands the power and

25:29

geographical land of

25:33

Russia no no no no I I very much don't

25:37

want Vladimir Putin to uh taste victory

25:43

I don't want him to try to reassemble

25:45

the former Soviet Union so how do you

25:47

stop him

25:51

uh well in part you might want to

25:53

cooperate you you might have wanted to

25:56

have cooperate Co cooperated with him

25:58

more

26:01

and it's very difficult look my family

26:05

comes from the region almost uh 100% of

26:08

my ancestors came from Poland Russia

26:12

Ukraine and

26:13

lvia

26:15

um I'm very hesitant to talk in Western

26:18

media about the realities of the region

26:20

because I don't think that Americans

26:22

have been prepared for quite what the

26:24

pressures are in this area and it is

26:27

incredibly important that we understand

26:30

just how dangerous this region is in

26:32

part because of the skill level of the

26:34

players Vladimir Putin may be a brute a

26:36

butcher but he's also incredibly skilled

26:40

and you have to remember that America's

26:41

nuclear power effectively um came from a

26:45

bunch of igrs from places like Lavo

26:47

which is now called Lviv which I think

26:49

of as a Polish city which is now claimed

26:50

to be

26:51

Ukrainian um we have to um we have to

26:56

appreciate that this is a region that is

26:58

incredibly skilled incredibly

27:01

dangerous uh a source of intellectual

27:04

horsepower which built America's own

27:05

Atomic Arsenal uh refugees from the area

27:08

so I think that you just have to

27:10

understand that uh most of us are way

27:12

out of our depths if we don't have great

27:14

information we don't have cultural and

27:17

historical understanding of the tensions

27:19

between these peoples I want to just

27:22

change Tac to free speech in your

27:25

estimation are there any limits

27:28

to free

27:30

speech well it depends if you know

27:32

people say free markets and there are

27:34

all sorts of limits on free markets

27:36

usually when we say Free Speech adults

27:39

know the limits you know that there are

27:40

liable limits there's uh you know

27:43

Brandenburg versus Ohio there are all

27:46

sorts of things that you can't say or do

27:48

we have export

27:49

controls uh in fact in uh in physics uh

27:54

there's a concept called restricted data

27:57

where if you have an idea and you're not

27:59

a federal employee and you don't have

28:01

security clearance if the idea uh

28:04

touches nuclear weapons uh you may not

28:06

share it uh at all because it is born

28:10

secret uh there are huge limits on

28:13

speech that are part of free speech so

28:15

when we say Free Speech I'm 100% for

28:18

Free Speech but that is an understanding

28:21

that that's a reserved term of art it's

28:24

not uh unrestricted speech it has it has

28:27

never been and it can't exist as such I

28:31

mean you and I I think are both big fans

28:32

of Elon Musk uh I had an interview plan

28:35

with him at the start of the year which

28:36

he unceremoniously cancelled when he

28:39

found a clip of me on the show mildly

28:41

criticizing his decision to let Alex

28:44

Jones back on to X having previously

28:46

said he would never let him back on and

28:49

he wouldn't let people who stand on the

28:50

graves of of dead children on the

28:52

platform and I thought he was wrong to

28:54

change his mind about Alex J but I found

28:56

it quite ironic that Elon who you know

28:59

is a constant uh promoter of free speech

29:02

particularly onx would not want to

29:04

engage in an interview with me because I

29:06

criticized him over something like

29:10

that well you know everyone wants to

29:13

date Free Speech but when Free Speech

29:15

wants to date other people we always

29:16

have second thoughts and uh I'd like to

29:19

think that I'm at least self-aware

29:22

enough to realize that most of the

29:26

things that we stand up for truth ethics

29:29

Free Speech Etc when they bind on us we

29:32

as humans are very likely to change our

29:34

mind that's why we try to ins Shrine

29:35

this in law it's sort of a Ulisses

29:38

contract that I know that I'm going to

29:39

be against Free Speech when it's used in

29:41

a way that I don't like I bristled when

29:43

you said you read my Wikipedia entry

29:46

because I have idiots who constantly try

29:47

to deface it uh on the other hand

29:50

because I'm locked into a free speech

29:52

mentality I it stays my hand when I try

29:56

to say that that's something that

29:57

shouldn't be permitted effectively I

29:59

have to put up with uh the empowerment

30:02

of idiots and Dangerous Ones at that if

30:05

I'm really signed up for the Free Speech

30:07

project and you know there you have it

30:09

it's interesting on Wikipedia me my

30:11

eldest son noticed I don't know if you

30:12

know if it's still there I never look at

30:13

it but it said that I was the youngest

30:16

of four children and I happened to be

30:17

the oldest of four children so it's a

30:20

tiny little fact it doesn't matter to

30:23

anybody other than it's wrong so my

30:25

oldest son is a journalist corrected it

30:28

and then whoever it was who' put the

30:30

erroneous information up there Rec

30:33

corrected it back to the false one and

30:35

this went on and on and on and on and it

30:37

was there was no end to it where my

30:40

eldest son kept saying I was the eldest

30:42

and whoever this person was kept saying

30:45

I was the youngest and all it showed me

30:47

was that Wikipedia professes to be you

30:51

know a great vehicle for information

30:54

accurate information about people and so

30:55

on and free speech and so on but there's

30:57

not much it can do if someone is utterly

30:59

determined to put disinformation out

31:02

there well it was briefly a great

31:04

resource the problem that we find is it

31:08

had certain flaws when you had rules

31:11

about you know authoritative sources and

31:13

sources were in fact largely

31:14

authoritative it worked well as you've

31:16

seen the degradation of authoritative

31:18

sources and as people have become more

31:20

sophisticated about what kinds of

31:22

exploits work on w wikipedia you have a

31:25

very dangerous situation which is that

31:27

technical articles continue to be of

31:29

Fairly high quality because there's no

31:31

one determined to Graffiti over them

31:35

however when you start including

31:38

political uh people or people who are

31:41

disliked by someone the incentives

31:44

change and as a result what you see is a

31:48

sort of a chimeric resource which is

31:51

very high quality if it was going to

31:53

describe hydraulic uh presses let's say

31:56

but very low quality when you have a

31:58

controversial figure who's hated by a

32:00

determined group so I think that it has

32:04

morphed over our lifetime from being

32:06

something which is an

32:08

astonishing uh achievement to something

32:10

which is in fact very dangerous though

32:12

the other thing I would say is that we

32:14

have a very strange

32:17

um situation in that we expected that

32:20

Free Speech was going to be the exchange

32:22

of ideas with which we disagreed and

32:25

instead it has morphed

32:27

I think over my lifetime much more into

32:29

a question of what what can I get away

32:32

with that might not be true uh it might

32:35

not uh be a different point of view but

32:38

it's simply a free speech exploit to

32:41

destroy if I don't have a good argument

32:43

against somebody's position I always

32:45

have the ability to try to talk about

32:47

that person's family or skin care or

32:49

what have you and I think that for many

32:53

of us we're sort of waking up to the

32:55

idea that a world saturated in in speech

32:58

without friction which is what we now

33:00

have you don't have to print a pamphlet

33:02

or get a book deal in order to to say

33:05

your peace that in a in a cinus world

33:08

mostly what Free Speech produces is a

33:11

vitriol and personal attacks and I think

33:13

that we're all sort of scratching our

33:15

head this isn't exactly the future that

33:17

we had envisaged yeah on the covid

33:20

pandemic which we touched on earlier um

33:23

your brother Brett's become a very

33:25

high-profile uh part of this debate we

33:28

got a a clip of him talking about it

33:30

let's listen to this I believe we must

33:32

zoom out if we are to understand the

33:34

pattern that we are gathered here to

33:36

explore because the pattern is larger

33:38

than federal health agencies and the

33:40

covid cartel if we do zoom out and ask

33:43

what are they hiding the answer becomes

33:45

as obvious as it is disturbing they are

33:48

hiding

33:49

everything so that was to a senate

33:52

committee this week um what did you make

33:55

of your brother's appearance there what

33:56

do you make it the general debate about

33:58

covid as it raged in real

34:01

time well first of all I just I want to

34:04

be very clear that whatever Brett's

34:06

positions are on covid are his positions

34:09

uh they are not my positions and I don't

34:11

want to be referenced to his positions

34:14

much of what he says is true but the

34:18

problem is that when you are so clearly

34:22

lying about the origins of covid its

34:25

treatment the reasons for doing things

34:27

the science you open up the question

34:31

what exactly is going on and why are we

34:33

lying about

34:34

everything uh I think the Stark

34:37

difference is is that Brett claims that

34:39

he can figure out much more of that

34:41

story than I think I can and I dare say

34:44

I don't think anyone can if you're not

34:47

going to really go after the Eco Health

34:50

Alliance and Peter daik in terms of the

34:53

information that that organization and

34:55

that individual holds

34:57

and you're not going to discuss Ralph

34:59

Barrack's lab uh in North Carolina

35:01

you're not going to talk about the

35:03

private Communications inside of NIH

35:05

with Francis Collins if you're not going

35:07

to talk about Anthony fouche's duties uh

35:10

in terms of biowarfare after the Geneva

35:13

and bow Warfare conventions of the

35:16

1970s because presumably this is all

35:18

about statecraft and extremely secret

35:21

programs as to why are we in Wuhan um

35:24

talking about inserting inserting if

35:26

you're in cavage sites and humanizing

35:28

Corona

35:30

virus it's an absolutely terrifying

35:33

vacuum of

35:35

knowledge and I don't think we know why

35:39

I I think that this you know very likely

35:42

we are trying to play 12-dimensional

35:44

chess and we're barely able to play

35:46

Checkers and this goes back to the

35:47

original point about uh I think it was

35:50

April of 53 when we figured out DNA and

35:52

then 10 years later we had the genetic

35:54

code with the work of Marshall nerenberg

35:56

it's so much power and the treaties that

35:59

we've signed

36:01

are possibly nonsensical I mean we we

36:04

have a problem that we don't develop

36:06

offensive weapons but defensive measures

36:09

can be easily converted to offensive

36:12

measures we have put restrictions on

36:14

ourselves that we then attempt to get

36:17

out of uh almost certainly this has to

36:20

do

36:22

with questions that we don't want

36:25

resolved in public and I came from from

36:27

you know I'm I'm an old man now uh at 58

36:31

I remember the church hearings the pike

36:34

hearings the Watergate hearings the Iran

36:36

Contra hearings we have given up on a a

36:40

a taste for actually figuring out who we

36:42

are what we've done what our

36:44

responsibilities are and I think I think

36:47

that we don't know Brett may know I

36:49

don't think he does I know that I don't

36:51

know and uh the hearings were the way

36:54

that we were going to figure this out

36:55

and I don't think that we did that in a

36:58

smart and aggressive fashion how do you

37:00

think the pandemic

37:04

began I don't know it could be a wet

37:07

Market it's very unlikely I think that

37:09

the diffuse proposal that came out of

37:11

the Eco Health Alliance um clearly

37:14

suggests that uh there's a whole lot of

37:17

coincidence that was going on in Wuhan

37:19

China but I have to say that you know as

37:23

somebody with a a stem

37:25

PhD um

37:28

I'd like to restrict myself first to

37:30

what I can say and what I can say is

37:31

we're not trying to figure it out I can

37:34

also say with absolute certainty that

37:37

the claim coming out of places like the

37:40

Lancet that uh any attempt to figure out

37:43

the origin of covid that considered the

37:46

Wuhan Institute of virology was

37:48

necessarily racist was an Abomination

37:51

the attempt to sign up Nobel

37:53

laurates uh in order to make this seem

37:57

like a respectable position what was it

37:59

like 60 plus Nobel laurates

38:03

um this is a great danger to science we

38:07

cannot spend our credibility covering up

38:11

for failures of statecraft and uh 12d

38:16

Chess at a geopolitical level I think we

38:18

have to go back to a world in which we

38:20

actually get answers and if we killed a

38:21

bunch of people by helping the Chinese

38:24

in their biological Laboratory iies

38:26

we're going to have to take

38:27

responsibility that uh potentially tens

38:30

of millions of people are dead through

38:32

our stupidity during the pandemic that

38:35

the science regularly changed as facts

38:38

changed that struck me looking back on

38:40

it as a perfectly normal sequence of

38:43

events that with a novel virus that that

38:46

would happen um I mean were you are you

38:50

sympathetic to the issues that

38:53

scientists had and the fact that they

38:55

did keep changing their mind about

38:57

things from the efficacy of masks for

38:59

example to whether if you had a vaccine

39:01

you could transmit the virus and so on

39:03

are you sympathetic to that's that's the

39:06

fog of War when you're dealing with

39:07

something like

39:09

that

39:11

no really you think it was willful

39:15

willful deliberate disinformation

39:17

knowing the facts look I'm not a bi I'm

39:19

not a biologist but uh you know again

39:22

that that above 40 IQ uh you know keeps

39:25

causing me problems

39:27

this was obviously two separate things a

39:30

small amount of Revision in terms of our

39:33

knowledge as we learned more and a

39:36

massive amount of revisions as

39:38

our as our policy changed if you

39:42

expended too much uh PPE personal

39:44

protective equipment in a previous

39:46

administration and then you failed to

39:49

follow the admonitions of the literature

39:51

which said that you had to be prepared

39:53

for surges very sudden uh needs for a

39:57

very large amount of PPE for example um

40:01

it was very clear that we were being

40:02

told that masks didn't work at the

40:04

beginning in part because we were trying

40:06

to reserve them uh for people who were

40:09

working in emergency rooms and then we

40:11

decided that we needed these masks

40:15

despite questions about the size of the

40:17

virus and the width of the mesh of the

40:21

mask and then we go back and forth and

40:23

back and forth this is a transparent

40:26

situation in which we're

40:28

pretending that our reasons for doing

40:31

something are are given by some proxy uh

40:35

I think that what what we had was we

40:36

didn't want to admit that we'd failed to

40:38

replenish our stock under Obama I think

40:42

we didn't want to admit that the masks

40:44

weren't necessarily very

40:46

efficacious we didn't really have great

40:48

tools and as such we just look like

40:52

idiots and we couldn't ask questions

40:54

right when you if if you look at the for

40:57

example the phds who are outside of the

41:00

control of the University system who

41:02

aren't dependent on NIH grants who are

41:05

free effectively to ask questions we

41:07

were supposed to be the representatives

41:09

of ordinary Americans who wanted answers

41:12

to these

41:13

questions and we were all denigrated we

41:16

were told that we

41:17

were I don't know crazy people

41:19

conspiracy theorists etc etc you look at

41:22

the the trajectory of Jeffrey Sachs who

41:24

was put on Let commission to investigate

41:27

these things he appointed all of these

41:29

people from inside the system and he

41:31

realized that he uh hired wolves and

41:35

foxes to guard hen houses

41:38

um this is a crazy situation we need to

41:41

give our scientists Fu money and we need

41:45

them to tell us the truth and I don't

41:49

think it was that the science was

41:50

changing I think that the idea is

41:52

something terrible happened and we

41:53

weren't honest about it you have been

41:56

called the new Einstein um because you

41:59

love math and physics but also because

42:01

he had the theory of relativity you have

42:02

The Theory of Everything um it's complex

42:06

The Theory of Everything but what's the

42:08

simple Layman version of

42:11

it that Einstein was well first of all I

42:14

mean I I I it's a very kind introduction

42:17

uh I'm happy to just be myself uh

42:20

effectively that you're looking at

42:22

something that's extraordinarily simple

42:24

that uh Einstein's theory if you will

42:27

began with four degrees of freedom which

42:29

you can think of as any four degrees of

42:31

freedom like treble mid Bas and Reverb

42:33

on an amp then he what he did was he

42:37

took the four degrees of freedom and he

42:38

said let's put three rulers and one

42:41

watch as measuring devices and six

42:44

protractors to measure the angles

42:46

between all of those four objects and he

42:50

called that

42:51

SpaceTime that SpaceTime object is not

42:54

where I believe uh we live we actually

42:58

live on top of all of those extra rulers

43:02

watches and

43:03

protractors and we are played back in

43:06

this four-dimensional space so imagine

43:08

you have a record on a phonograph

43:10

imagine that that record was in some

43:12

sense 14 dimensional data the stylus was

43:16

Einstein's SpaceTime metric and the

43:18

gramophone is the four-dimensional world

43:20

that you perceive that is in essence

43:23

where I believe we are I believe that we

43:25

are looking at a 14-dimensional

43:29

world effectively you think you're

43:31

living in four dimensions but you're

43:33

playing back a 14-dimensional world

43:35

versus via Einstein's metric and you're

43:38

getting confused how is it um that you

43:41

know you have Schrodinger's cat both

43:43

dead and alive well how is it that on

43:46

the door's first album you have both

43:48

Break On Through To the other side and

43:49

Light My Fire but you don't hear them

43:51

both at once um you don't think of that

43:53

as a paradox and I think that in part

43:56

uh we have all of these crazy log jams

44:00

because we think we're living in a

44:01

four-dimensional manifold so for people

44:04

who are scientifically illiterate like

44:07

me what is your plan to resolve

44:12

this uh sooner or later the string

44:16

theorists will retire and die and my

44:21

desire is to outlive them effectively

44:23

what you have is one group of very

44:27

brilliant very smart people who refuse

44:30

to follow scientific ethics they won't

44:32

consider other people's work they name

44:34

everything after themselves they absorb

44:37

everything into their worldview and

44:40

they've made science impossible much the

44:42

way biology was made unpossible under

44:44

covid and what I thought I would do is

44:47

I'd start a podcast I'd grow an enormous

44:50

Channel I think I'm the mathematician

44:51

with the largest following in the world

44:53

yeah and uh the the entire point of that

44:57

is to make sure that they can't do to me

44:59

what they did to me before which is to

45:01

uh drown me out and uh use the official

45:04

channels so I'll use the unofficial

45:05

channels in fact the intellectual dark

45:07

web came about because I'd spotted that

45:10

podcasts were far more powerful than

45:12

anyone in traditional media had thought

45:15

and so what I did was I tried to

45:16

aggregate uh few people with mega

45:19

channels and a lot of voices that needed

45:20

amplification and uh wrap a kind of a

45:23

concept or a brand around it uh right

45:26

now the Legacy Media doesn't know why

45:28

it's dying and what I intend to do is to

45:32

use a large channel to become even

45:35

larger and apparently I jumped the gun a

45:38

little bit I think that um unfortunately

45:40

this University system that holds back

45:43

new

45:44

ideas and and I mean scientific ideas

45:46

and it is still too powerful this thing

45:49

that we just saw with Claudine gay

45:51

however is a huge I don't know it's a

45:55

huge window of hope that's opening

45:57

because if I had told you before that

45:59

the president of Harvard was completely

46:02

unqualified uh for that office and that

46:04

that person might be a plagiarist uh

46:06

that might have sounded completely

46:09

fanciful you might have thought I was

46:10

crazy well the fact that she lost her

46:13

job for it is actually would have

46:15

sounded crazy because you would have

46:17

thought that no no no no she she's still

46:19

she's still employed as a professor

46:22

right but she lost her job as a

46:23

president of the of the of Harvard right

46:25

absolutely but what I'm trying to say is

46:28

you when you find out how corrupt our

46:31

universities are and how much amazing

46:35

work is still being done within them

46:38

you'll be ready to listen to geometric

46:40

Unity but you're not in you're not there

46:41

yet right now you're in the process of

46:43

figuring out that Harvard isn't Harvard

46:46

MIT isn't MIT and I I sure hope that

46:49

Oxford and Cambridge are still

46:51

themselves they have a little bit uh a

46:52

little longer in the tooth and maybe a

46:54

little bit more history under their belt

46:56

but right now it's important to purge

46:57

the universities of everything related

46:59

to diversity Equity inclusion plagiarism

47:03

all we need to get rid of a lot of these

47:05

activist subjects uh that were maybe

47:07

founded with the best of intentions in

47:09

the late 60s and we need to return to

47:11

rigor scholarship and above all

47:13

collegiality with enough money that

47:16

professors do not fear if they don't

47:19

sign a loyalty oath they don't need to

47:21

worry about walking to campus that

47:22

they're going to be um you know attacked

47:26

uh right now what we need is something

47:27

like a civil war in the universities and

47:29

the right side has to win you know I I

47:31

realized we' reached an absolute Nadar

47:34

with this when a professor at an

47:36

American University I can't remember

47:37

which one for 25 years had delivered a

47:40

lecture about the use of offensive

47:42

language in modern society and as part

47:45

of the lecture he used examples of

47:48

offensive language and he was reported

47:51

by students who couldn't handle this and

47:53

were triggered by it for using a

47:55

offensive language and he was fired even

47:58

though the whole point of his lecture

47:59

for a quarter of a century had been how

48:02

you navigate the use of offensive

48:03

language in society and at that point I

48:05

realized we had literally lost our

48:07

mights I mean the idea that a university

48:10

Professor would be hounded out of his

48:12

job for giving a lecture about a subject

48:15

where the students had just

48:17

willfully

48:18

deliberately misused the use of the

48:21

offensive language to get him out of his

48:23

job seemed to me extraordinary

48:30

University is not

48:32

kindergarten it is important to become

48:35

intolerant of people who are not

48:38

tolerant themselves that will sound like

48:40

a paradox to some we have no time for

48:43

that it is very important to restore

48:45

collegiality academic freedom freedom of

48:48

speech and a lot of people don't belong

48:50

in University and we need to practice

48:53

exclusion rather than inclusion in their

48:56

case I don't know how to say this this

48:58

idea this Vogue that we have for things

49:00

that sound good but make no sense has to

49:03

be purged from the system by the adults

49:05

otherwise there will be no adults in the

49:07

system I want to end very quickly Eric

49:10

um I've got 10 things I want to give uh

49:13

you the opportunity to give me a

49:15

statistical probability of these things

49:17

happening so you can choose any

49:18

percentage you like okay but you got to

49:20

answer quickly it's rapid fire no no no

49:23

yeah I decline you can't do that

49:26

no really why because it's going to be

49:28

well because it's going to be extremely

49:30

low quality I live on the internet and

49:33

as no I'm I'm quite serious the there's

49:35

a Vogue for trying to get people to

49:37

answer all questions I didn't

49:39

particularly want to answer a question

49:41

about my brother's views on covid

49:43

because why I I completely supported him

49:46

with respect to Ivor mechon and the idea

49:49

it wasn't horse to warmer but I

49:51

completely disagreed with his Ivor mecon

49:54

maximalism and the internet can't

49:56

maintain a distinction like that you see

49:58

in other words to the Ivor mechon Army

50:01

uh Brett was a genius for realizing that

50:04

Ivermectin was a near-perfect

50:05

prophylactic which I didn't believe on

50:08

the other hand to people who were buying

50:10

the official line I was killing people

50:12

by suggesting that ior maon was a

50:15

replacement so every time you ask a

50:18

person to engage in such activities what

50:20

happens is that that person's life turns

50:23

to crap because of the low quality

50:25

people on the internet many of whom are

50:27

Bots probably not even humans uh that

50:30

dog you with everything that you say so

50:31

the reason that I don't accept what

50:33

you're saying is that uh I don't want

50:36

three weeks of pain in my life that I'm

50:38

an idiot for giving those

50:41

probabilities that's actually a

50:42

brilliant answer uh Eric W it's been a

50:45

pleasure talking to you thank you very

50:47

much really enjoyed it Pierce thanks for

50:48

having me take

50:54

care

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