George Conway: Stormy Daniels’ second day of cross-examination a ‘fiasco’ for Trump defense

CNN
9 May 202411:09

Summary

TLDRThe video transcript discusses a tense courtroom situation involving Stormy Daniels and the former president, Donald Trump. Daniels' testimony, which was intended to undermine her credibility, backfired, leading to embarrassing moments for Trump. A key aspect of the case revolves around a $35,000 payment made to Michael Cohen, which is scrutinized for its implications on Trump's financial oversight. The defense's strategy is criticized for being overly aggressive and not sticking to a concise cross-examination. The discussion suggests that the case's outcome hinges on whether the prosecution can prove Trump's knowledge and involvement in the alleged falsification of records. The importance of Michael Cohen's testimony is highlighted, as it could provide the missing link between Trump's actions and the alleged cover-up. The summary also touches on the potential impact of the payment's structure and the need for the prosecution to establish a clear pattern of deception beyond just the signatures on checks.

Takeaways

  • 🗣️ Stormy Daniels' testimony turned defense cross-examination into an embarrassment for the former president, showcasing her wit and undermining the defense's strategy.
  • 💼 A Trump Organization bookkeeper testified about the close monitoring of financial transactions, including payments to Michael Cohen, highlighting the president's attention to detail.
  • 🚫 The judge rejected a motion for a mistrial and denied a request to modify the gag order, indicating the court's stance on the ongoing case.
  • 💭 Stormy Daniels' tweet suggested that real men would respond to such situations by testifying in court, implying the opposite about the former president.
  • 📚 The defense's cross-examination of Stormy Daniels was criticized as a disaster, with the strategy described as a 'rabbit hole' that didn't need to be explored.
  • 🧐 The defense's strategy was questioned for its focus on proving a negative, which was seen as counterproductive to their case.
  • 🤝 The importance of Michael Cohen's testimony was highlighted, as it could potentially provide the missing link between Trump's actions and the alleged falsification of records.
  • 🏛️ Madeline Webster, a former gatekeeper and executive assistant to Trump, provided insights into Trump's financial habits, including his scrutiny over a $650 frame purchase.
  • 💰 The discussion around Trump's financial prudence and the $35,000 payment to Cohen raised questions about the legitimacy of the transaction and its documentation.
  • 🔍 The prosecution's challenge was identified as needing to establish not just the payments but also the intent behind them and how they were recorded in Trump's financial ledgers.
  • 🕵️‍♂️ The expectation that Michael Cohen's testimony would be key to bridging gaps in the case and potentially corroborating the prosecution's claims.

Q & A

  • What was the main issue discussed during Stormy Daniels' cross-examination?

    -The main issue discussed was the credibility of Stormy Daniels' testimony, particularly her allegations about her encounters with Donald Trump. The defense aimed to undermine her credibility, but some aspects of the cross-examination turned embarrassing for the former president instead.

  • How did Stormy Daniels defend her allegations during the cross-examination?

    -Stormy Daniels defended her allegations by stating that if she were making up her story about her encounters with Donald Trump, she would have 'written it to be a lot better,' implying that her testimony was genuine and not fabricated.

  • What was the purpose of the testimony from the Trump Organization bookkeeper?

    -The testimony from the Trump Organization bookkeeper was to show how closely Donald Trump monitors the checks he writes, indicating his attention to financial details. This was relevant to discussions about payments made to Michael Cohen.

  • What was the outcome of Trump's motion for a mistrial and his request to modify the gag order?

    -The judge rejected Trump's motion for a mistrial and denied his request to modify the gag order he was under. This meant that the trial would continue under the existing conditions, without alterations to the gag order.

  • What strategy did the defense employ during the trial, and why was it criticized?

    -The defense strategy was criticized for going into unnecessary details, such as questioning Stormy Daniels about trivial matters like walking distances in heels, which was seen as irrelevant and counterproductive to their case.

  • What was the significance of the $35,000 checks discussed in relation to Donald Trump?

    -The $35,000 checks were discussed to highlight the payments Trump made to his lawyer, Michael Cohen. These payments were significant as they were allegedly linked to the hush money payments made to Stormy Daniels.

  • How did the discussion of Trump's spending habits relate to the case?

    -Trump's spending habits were discussed to demonstrate his meticulous nature in financial dealings, which was used to argue that he was likely aware and involved in how the payments to Cohen were structured and recorded.

  • What role did Madeline Webster play in the trial?

    -Madeline Webster testified as Trump's gatekeeper inside the White House and previously at the Trump Organization. Her testimony likely aimed to provide insights into Trump's direct involvement and oversight over financial and operational matters.

  • How is the testimony of Michael Cohen anticipated to impact the trial?

    -Michael Cohen's testimony is anticipated to be crucial as he is expected to provide a direct link between the payment arrangements discussed in the Oval Office and the actual payments made, potentially filling in critical gaps in the prosecution's case.

  • What was the main legal argument concerning the payments made to Stormy Daniels as discussed in the trial?

    -The main legal argument was whether the payments made to Stormy Daniels, categorized as legal fees, were actually part of an effort to cover up the true nature of hush money payments. This involves proving intentional falsification of payment descriptions to mask their real purpose.

Outlines

00:00

🤔 Cross-Examination Fiasco: Stormy Daniels' Testimony

The first paragraph details the cross-examination of Stormy Daniels, who managed to turn the defense's attempts to undermine her credibility into an embarrassment for the former president. It discusses the testimony of a Trump Organization bookkeeper regarding the president's meticulous attention to financial details, and the judge's rejection of a mistrial motion and a request to modify the gag order. The paragraph concludes with Stormy Daniels' tweet, which sarcastically comments on the former president's lack of court appearance.

05:00

💼 Trump's Financial Scrutiny and the Missing Link

The second paragraph focuses on the implications of Trump's known attention to detail regarding finances and the significance of the $35,000 payments made to Michael Cohen. It discusses the need for evidence showing Trump's awareness of how these payments were recorded in the Trump Tower ledgers. The discussion suggests that the prosecution will need Michael Cohen's testimony to explain the 'missing link' and to establish a connection between the payments and Trump's knowledge or involvement in the alleged scheme.

10:01

📚 The Importance of Michael Cohen's Testimony

The third paragraph emphasizes the critical role of Michael Cohen's testimony in the case. It suggests that Cohen's evidence is pivotal in bridging the gap between the payments made and Trump's alleged involvement in a scheme to falsify records. The paragraph also touches on the strategy for undermining Cohen's credibility, highlighting his past legal troubles and the importance of reasonable doubt in the context of the jury's decision-making process.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Stormy Daniels

Stormy Daniels is an adult film actress who was involved in a legal dispute with former President Donald Trump. In the video transcript, she is mentioned as having testified in a trial, which is related to her credibility and her claims about an alleged affair with Trump. Her testimony is highlighted as turning into an embarrassing moment for Trump during the cross-examination.

💡Cross-examination

Cross-examination is a legal process where a witness is questioned by the opposing counsel to test the credibility and accuracy of their testimony. In the context of the video, it refers to the questioning of Stormy Daniels by the defense attorney, which is suggested to have been a misstep that backfired and led to uncomfortable moments for the former president.

💡Donald Trump

Donald Trump is the 45th President of the United States and a central figure in the video's narrative. The transcript discusses a legal case where his credibility and actions are under scrutiny. His alleged involvement with Stormy Daniels and the financial transactions related to a non-disclosure agreement are key points of discussion.

💡Trump Organization

The Trump Organization is the collective name for the numerous businesses associated with Donald Trump and his family. In the video, a bookkeeper from the Trump Organization testifies about the financial practices and the attention to detail regarding payments, which is relevant to the case discussed.

💡Michael Cohen

Michael Cohen is an attorney who formerly worked for Donald Trump and is mentioned in the context of payments made to Stormy Daniels. The transcript suggests that there are questions about the legality and nature of these payments, and Cohen's knowledge and testimony would be critical to the case.

💡Mistrial

A mistrial is a legal term for a trial that has been rendered invalid due to errors in procedure or other issues. In the video, it is mentioned that a motion for a mistrial by Trump was rejected by the judge, indicating a significant ruling in the ongoing legal proceedings.

💡Gag order

A gag order is a legal restraint on the public disclosure of information about a case issued by a court. The transcript notes that a request to modify the gag order was denied, suggesting that certain restrictions on what can be publicly discussed regarding the case remain in place.

💡

💡Credibility

Credibility refers to the believability or trustworthiness of a person or the information they provide. In the context of the video, the credibility of Stormy Daniels and Michael Cohen is a point of discussion, as their testimonies are central to the case and their perceived honesty can influence the outcome.

💡Bookkeeper

A bookkeeper is a person who maintains financial records and ensures the accuracy of financial transactions. The transcript mentions a bookkeeper from the Trump Organization, who provides testimony about the financial dealings that are pertinent to the case.

💡Non-disclosure agreement (NDA)

A non-disclosure agreement is a legally binding contract that requires parties to keep certain information confidential. In the video, the NDA is discussed in the context of payments made to Stormy Daniels, which is a focal point of the legal case.

💡Prosecution

The prosecution refers to the legal team that represents the state or federal government in a criminal case and seeks to prove the guilt of the accused. The video transcript discusses the prosecution's strategy and the evidence they need to present a convincing case.

Highlights

Stormy Daniels' testimony turned defense cross-examination into an embarrassment for the former president.

Daniels claimed that if she were lying about her story, she would have made it more believable.

A Trump Organization bookkeeper testified about the president's meticulous attention to financial details.

Judge rejected Trump's motion for a mistrial and denied his request to modify the gag order.

Stormy Daniels' tweet suggested that real men would respond to testimony by taking the stand.

Conservative lawyer George Conway critiqued the defense's cross-examination strategy as a disaster.

Nicholas, a reputed lawyer, was criticized for not keeping the cross-examination concise.

The defense's strategy was questioned as counterproductive, focusing on proving a non-event.

The discussion of a map of South Lake Tahoe, Nevada, was highlighted as a low point in the cross-examination.

Jurors were observed trying to suppress laughter at some of Daniels' responses.

The defense's focus on minor details was seen as a strategic mistake.

The importance of stipulating facts not in contest to focus on key issues was emphasized.

Madeline Webster, Trump's gatekeeper in the White House, testified about her role and interactions.

An email exchange about purchasing a frame for a picture of Trump's mother illustrated Trump's frugality.

The prosecution's strategy to demonstrate Trump's attention to financial details was discussed.

The absence of direct evidence showing Trump's involvement in the ledger falsification was noted.

The necessity for the prosecution to present more evidence to secure a conviction was highlighted.

Michael Cohen's anticipated testimony was identified as a key component in bridging the evidentiary gap.

The splitting of payments over a year was suggested as indicative of a scheme to disguise the true nature of the payments.

The prosecution's challenge to demonstrate the intent behind the payments and their mislabeling was discussed.

Michael Cohen's credibility as a witness and his past actions were questioned as potential defenses.

Transcripts

00:00

Stormy Daniels wrapped up

00:01

two days on the stand, managing

00:02

to turn a portion of defense

00:03

cross-examination aimed

00:04

at undermining her credibility

00:06

into some embarrassing moments

00:08

for the former president.

00:09

At one point saying

00:09

that if she were making up her s

00:11

about sex

00:12

with Donald Trump, quote,

00:12

I would have written it

00:13

to be a lot better.

00:15

Today also saw testimony

00:17

from a Trump Organization bookke

00:18

about how closely he monitors th

00:20

he writes, detailing the attenti

00:22

he paid to amounts considerably

00:24

than $35,000 checks

00:26

he wrote to Michael Cohen.

00:28

The day ended with Judge one mot

00:30

rejecting another Trump motion

00:32

for a mistrial

00:33

and denying his request

00:34

to modify the gag

00:35

order he's under

00:36

so we can talk about Stormy Dani

00:38

and capping it all off.

00:39

Stormy Daniels tweet this evenin

00:40

saying this about the former pre

00:42

quote, Real men respond

00:44

to testimony by being sworn in

00:46

and taking the stand in court.

00:47

Oh, wait. Never mind.

00:49

Back with the panel.

00:50

Joining us, conservative lawyer

00:51

George Conway, who was in court

00:55

What were your takeaways?

00:56

My takeaway

00:56

was that they continue

00:58

good cross-examination of Stormy

01:01

was a complete disaster

01:02

and a fiasco for the defense. I

01:05

as because it was a rabbit hole,

01:07

they didn't need to go there.

01:07

It just was just

01:09

it just went on and on and didn'

01:10

she didn't have anything on her.

01:12

And you got to confine

01:15

crosses to basically

01:17

a few short lines of of of stuff

01:21

That's good.

01:22

They didn't do that.

01:23

I think what happened

01:24

was they had a day off.

01:25

And Nicholas is a very good lawy

01:28

by reputation.

01:28

I can

01:29

you can tell just by the way

01:30

she conducted themselves.

01:31

She knows how to cross-examine a

01:33

It knows how to ask questions.

01:34

But she was

01:35

she's her

01:36

client is a narcissistic sociopa

01:39

and who is obsessed with proving

01:42

that he didn't

01:43

have anything to do with Stormy

01:46

And so they went off on

01:47

this whole tangent on.

01:48

But basically it doesn't.

01:50

It does in a lot.

01:51

The defense's position should be

01:53

it doesn't really matter

01:55

whether that happened or not,

01:57

because even if it was extortion

02:01

you know,

02:02

it was extortion money,

02:03

it still could be a crime.

02:04

But we're trying to prove someth

02:06

that happened,

02:06

didn't happen, is

02:08

just it's just counterproductive

02:10

And it was

02:10

it just got to the point

02:11

of ridiculousness where she's as

02:15

a stormy about basically a

02:17

map of South Lake Tahoe, Nevada,

02:18

to figure out whether or not

02:19

she was walking in her

02:20

heels one block or two

02:21

where she took a cab.

02:23

It was just garbage

02:26

and it was embarrass Ussing

02:27

and to the point where, you know

02:29

if you control the wit

02:30

that you

02:30

by keeping your cross simple and

02:32

you can control the witness.

02:34

But the longer you go, the more

02:36

the witness can pop off at you.

02:38

And this woman is way smarter th

02:41

necklaces client.

02:43

And she got some really good

02:45

I mean,

02:45

I thought I saw jurors

02:47

at some point

02:47

trying to do what I was trying t

02:49

which was suppress laughter

02:51

at some of the at some of the sh

02:53

that Stormy got into.

02:55

I got into the record.

02:56

It was just

02:57

it was just a complete waste of

02:59

The good news for the defense is

03:01

that's not what this case

03:02

is going to be about

03:04

in the at the end of the day,

03:06

the mean

03:07

the defense made the mistake

03:09

also of putting this all into pa

03:10

They could have just stipulated

03:13

that we're not going to contest

03:14

what happened in South Lake Taho

03:17

and we're just going to focus th

03:18

in on the fact

03:19

of whether or not

03:19

there is proof that Donald Trump

03:21

knew about the records that that

03:24

that we claim were

03:25

that that the fact

03:25

that the prosecution

03:26

claims were falsified.

03:27

Now, let's leave apart

03:28

the fact that he

03:29

signed some of this stuff

03:30

with a backup next to it,

03:32

and he carefully read it,

03:33

it was $35,000 to his lawyer,

03:35

hadn't really done that much mor

03:36

Let's leave that aside.

03:38

That's what this issue

03:39

that if he gets off,

03:40

that's how he's going to get off

03:42

by by leaving this issue open

03:44

about what happened in that hote

03:46

they invited the prosecution

03:47

to dump all the stuff in the rec

03:49

Then they failed to object to a

03:51

some of the stuff that should ha

03:52

they should have objected

03:53

to like the bit about,

03:54

you know,

03:54

whether or not he wore a condom.

03:55

I mean, if the judge said today

03:57

he did it,

03:58

I think that should have gone in

03:59

But there was no objection

04:00

to the thing about the amount of

04:02

and what how closely

04:03

he pays attention to that.

04:04

It didn't get anywhere near

04:05

as much attention

04:06

as the Stormy Daniels cross-exam

04:08

But Madeline Webster,

04:09

who got on the stand,

04:10

it was the last witness today.

04:12

And she'll be back on the stand

04:12

tomorrow morning.

04:13

She was Trump's

04:14

gatekeeper inside the White Hous

04:15

and basically was the liaison

04:18

who was his executive assistant

04:19

at Trump organization, Trump Tow

04:21

They trained her of how to basic

04:23

that out of the White House.

04:24

And there was one moment

04:26

that the prosecution

04:27

clearly brought up where

04:28

there was an email

04:29

between her and Rhona Graff, Tru

04:31

assistant here in Trump Tower,

04:32

about buying a frame frame

04:34

from Tiffany's next door

04:35

because they didn't have any emp

04:37

for us,

04:37

a picture of Trump's mother

04:39

they wanted to put and run

04:40

a graph

04:41

responded in the email and said,

04:42

but the frames are about $650

04:44

with a 10% discount.

04:46

Can you check with him

04:47

if that's how much he wants to s

04:49

This is all Donald

04:49

Trump is the president

04:50

of the United States of America,

04:52

and he was

04:53

a Rona who knows him better

04:54

than anyone, essentially

04:55

was still checking to see

04:57

if that was too much money

04:58

for him to spend on a frame

05:00

and for her to expense it.

05:01

And I think that is where

05:02

we're going to see this go tomor

05:04

that they trying to get to the f

05:05

that he was a penny pincher

05:07

and he paid attention

05:08

to where every cent went

05:09

and we paid this guy $35,000 a m

05:11

And he has a reputation around t

05:13

of stiffing law firms like you.

05:16

Could you could

05:17

I mean, you can make a long list

05:19

notepad. There are all the refer

05:20

I mean, the recording

05:21

that Michael Cohen secretly

05:22

taped of his client, you know, T

05:25

sort of seem interested

05:27

in the details of payments.

05:28

I mean, he's talking about,

05:29

you know, in cash.

05:30

Yeah, can we do it?

05:31

Can we do it in cash?

05:33

So let me ask you this question.

05:34

Is, you know,

05:36

it seems to me

05:37

that there is a lot of evidence

05:39

that Trump in general

05:41

was very scrupulous about,

05:44

you know, how

05:44

he was spending his money

05:46

and in general looked at documen

05:49

you know, very carefully

05:50

before he signed them.

05:51

But there's not any evidence spe

05:53

physically

05:54

that he looked at these document

05:55

Do you think that's enough

05:57

for a conviction?

05:57

I mean, there is evidence

05:59

he signed those checks with the

06:02

but that's not evidence.

06:03

That's not That's not evidence.

06:06

That's the evidence that.

06:08

Is that clear?

06:08

It's clear

06:09

how you feel about President Tru

06:11

Okay.

06:12

I don't have feeling one way

06:14

or the other.

06:14

I'm looking at this as a trial a

06:16

Okay?

06:16

Looking at his objectively

06:17

as I can, as a former prosecutor

06:19

and as a current

06:20

criminal defense attorney,

06:21

what there's a big difference.

06:23

Yes, there's evidence

06:24

that Donald Trump signed the che

06:25

I've said that that's not the cr

06:28

And there's.

06:29

Caitlin, your point

06:30

up to the count on the count.

06:32

The checks, your

06:33

your point about the frame.

06:35

It's clear that he watches his m

06:37

but that's not the crime.

06:39

It's that second leap of how doe

06:42

then get written down

06:45

back in New York City?

06:46

Where is it listed? How is it li

06:48

Is it listed as reimbursement

06:50

to Michael Cohen or is it legal

06:53

Michael Cohen

06:54

There's been no proof whatsoever

06:56

that Donald Trump had anything t

06:59

with how it's listed on the ledg

07:01

in Trump Tower.

07:02

Can I try to

07:03

I can I try to frame this for a

07:04

I've posed a question to you, Ge

07:06

If the prosecution stands up tom

07:08

and says, Your Honor, at this po

07:10

can they possibly win?

07:11

They would have to dismiss the c

07:13

They could not necessarily.

07:14

And I think there's enough

07:15

circumstantial evidence

07:16

that they could infer it,

07:17

but they need to put some more o

07:18

And so so

07:19

I want to just so you know, so

07:21

it would be I agree with her.

07:22

I think if the prosecution

07:23

rested tomorrow,

07:24

it doesn't go to the jury.

07:25

So they need something

07:26

from Michael Cohen, right?

07:27

Yeah, They're going to need.

07:28

What do you think they need

07:28

from Michael Cohen?

07:29

Basically is going to explain

07:31

the missing link

07:31

that he needs to be meeting

07:32

in the Oval Office in 2018

07:34

where they basically discussed

07:35

how to do this.

07:35

And I think, you know,

07:37

and I think they're going

07:37

to do a cross on Michael

07:39

that is going to attempt to be b

07:41

the way they attempted to brutal

07:43

Stormy Daniels today.

07:45

And, you know,

07:46

and a lot of people

07:47

have low expectations for that.

07:48

But the fact of the matter is,

07:50

given everything that they appoi

07:51

to so far

07:52

from the commencement

07:53

of the hush

07:55

of the catch and kill scheme to

07:57

everything, everything,

07:59

like just fell off my mike

08:00

just to hold it up.

08:02

Basically what Michael has been

08:04

is going to say

08:05

has basically been pre corrobora

08:07

So, you know, it's going to be t

08:09

but it is going to be the key mo

08:10

I think that's exactly right.

08:11

And that bridges the gap

08:12

that I think we're seeing here,

08:13

which is there has to be that la

08:15

And Michael Cohen is going to sa

08:16

it's that meeting in the Oval Of

08:18

in 2017.

08:19

We're going to hear about

08:19

they actually

08:20

set the foundation for that toda

08:22

because the woman who testified

08:23

had an email showing

08:24

that this meeting was happening

08:26

doesn't tell us what's what was

08:28

But the jury knows that meeting

08:29

And Michael Cohen's testimony ab

08:31

Yes, I'm sorry, Go ahead.

08:33

I ask

08:33

this is going to be a dumb quest

08:35

but the fact that these payments

08:37

were split up

08:39

over the course of a year to me

08:41

seems like one of the most fishy

08:43

elements of this whole scheme.

08:45

If he were just going to reimbur

08:46

Michael Cohen,

08:47

he could have just written a che

08:49

that money was there.

08:51

But the fact that they split it

08:52

up, it seems to strongly suggest

08:54

they were trying to make it seem

08:55

like something that it was not a

08:58

that was being paid over the cou

08:59

of a long period of time, right?

09:01

GROSS up.

09:02

Well, yeah.

09:02

I mean,

09:03

I mean, regardless

09:04

of the regardless of the amount

09:05

the means to me,

09:07

I think

09:08

the prosecution hasn't

09:09

explained this or touched on thi

09:12

but that seems strongly

09:13

suggestive of a scheme

09:15

to make it seem like

09:16

something that it was not.

09:17

And that's exactly the point.

09:18

It's not enough for the prosecut

09:20

to show Donald Trump signed thes

09:22

He knew they were intended

09:23

to reimburse Michael Cohen

09:24

for the hush money payments.

09:26

They have to show that this was

09:27

of an effort to falsify

09:28

to falsely structure

09:30

these labels in the pull down me

09:32

as lawyer fees,

09:34

attorney fees in order to cover

09:35

the fact that they're really hot

09:36

How does he

09:37

but how does Michael Cohen

09:38

help on that question?

09:39

Well, look, at the end of the da

09:42

what's a reasonable doubt

09:43

or reasonable

09:43

doubt has to be that

09:44

there has to be some plausible

09:46

alternative explanation

09:48

for all these things that happen

09:51

And at the end of the day,

09:52

it's going to be

09:53

I think it's be hard

09:54

for the jury to believe

09:55

that Donald Trump

09:56

didn't know

09:57

that these payments were for Geo

09:59

I the end of the day, yeah,

10:01

an experienced lawyer view magni

10:04

You know what you would say