The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell 3/23/2024 | 🅽🅱🅲 BREAKING NEWS Today March 23, 2024

to a special Friday edition of The Last

Word focusing on defendant Trump Donald

Trump has not come up with a magical

solution to prevent New York's attorney

general Laticia James from beginning the

process of attaching his assets on

Monday in order to guarantee the payment

of a $464 million civil fraud judgment

against Donald Trump the merger

announced today between Donald Trump's

social media company with a much higher

valued company called the digital world

acquisition Corporation can do nothing

to change Donald Trump's Financial

capacities on Monday when Donald Trump

hits the deadline for satisfying the

Judgment against him if Donald Trump had

$464

million he could just post it with the

court as a guarantee that he could cover

the Judgment if he loses his appeal of

the case but Donald Trump doesn't have

that much money despite claiming to have

had much more than that for many many

years now and Donald Trump has not been

able to get anyone to lend him that

money so that he could post a bond with

the court for the Judgment which would

then protect his assets the court gave

Donald Trump 30 days to figure this out

and he hasn't been able to and so now as

Financial reality closes in on him

Donald Trump goes to bed lying and wakes

up lying last night at 1:54 a.m. he

posted one of his familiar lies on

social media saying that the Judgment

against him was unconstitutional and

unfair and that it was

designed by the judge to quote not allow

me to use any of the large amount of

cash I have built up over the years

through hard work Insight Instinct and

diligence on my political campaign for

president so the LIE there is that

Donald Trump does not have hundreds of

millions of dollars just doesn't have it

and the lie that he was going to spend

that money on his political campaign

that is a complete and total lie Donald

Trump has never spent one penny of his

own money on any of his political

campaigns in his first campaign for

president after promising that he would

Finance his entire campaign himself and

would never ask anyone to donate to his

campaign

Donald Trump loaned a total of $10.8

million to his campaign to get it

started and then he quickly began

begging for money every day of his life

online to his supporters and when his

supporters sent in enough

money Donald Trump paid himself back the

$10 million that he loaned to his

campaign so no Donald Trump was not

hoarding large amounts of cash hundreds

of millions of dollars so that he could

spend that money on his political

campaign as he said just before 2 am.

last night and then when he woke up this

morning if he slept at all at 7:14 a.m.

Donald Trump repeated that lie saying I

currently have almost $500 million in

cash a substantial amount of which I

intended to use in my campaign for

president no he did not he has never

intended to use one penny of his own

money in his

campaign and saying that he now has

almost $500 million in cash would mean

that his lawyers were lying when they

told the judge at the beginning of the

week that it was quote an impossibility

that was their word an impossibility for

Donald Trump to come up with $500

million in cash Trump's lawyers actually

called that quote a practical

impossibility the Trump lawyers

explained to the court just how

thoroughly Donald Trump failed in coming

up with the money the lawyers said quote

these diligent efforts have included

approaching about 30 shorty companies

through four separate Brokers a bond

requirement of this enormous magnitude

effectively requiring cash reserves

approaching $1

billion is unprecedented for a private

company so in a Manhattan courtroom on

Monday the foundational lie of Donald

Trump's image building as a poli

politician will be

exposed I don't need anybody's money

it's nice I don't need anybody's money

I'm using my own money I'm not using the

lobbyists I'm not using donors I don't

care I'm really rich that was an

enormous part of Donald Trump's initial

appeal when he began as a candidate he

mounted other appeals including direct

appeals to racist to expand his base of

support but many Trump voters in Iowa

believed that and said then in

interviews that the Trump wealth that

they believed he had was a virtue they

believed he would be Incorruptible

because he had too much money already to

be corrupted Donald Trump was lying

about that and his voters were wrong to

believe it but they have forgiven or

overlooked every Trump lie that has been

exposed and so at the end of the day on

Monday most of them might still be

willing to believe that Donald Trump is

as rich as he has always pretended to

be but Donald Trump knows better and

Donald Trump has proved how rich he

isn't to anyone who can

think the world's famous billionaires

have no problem coming up with $500

million Jeff Bezos has that in his

pocket Bill Gates has given away more

money than Donald Trump has ever had in

his life life Bill Gates has given away

billions of

dollars and the real billionaire New

York politician former mayor of New York

Mike Bloomberg who has also given away

billions of dollars never brags about

his wealth he could easily cover a

sudden bill of $500 million at any time

from his current Holdings of

106.2

billion Mike Bloomberg started with

nothing grew up in Suburban Boston moved

to New York City had to work to make

every single penny he has earned had to

do it on his

own Donald Trump hates billionaires like

Mike Bloomberg who came to the big city

where Donald Trump was born rich and

left Donald Trump far behind in the

building of important businesses and the

accumulation of wealth that staggers

Donald Trump's poisoned

imagination Donald Trump has never dared

to even pretend that he is as rich as

Mike Bloomberg never mind the younger

men like Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos who

have hit the stratospheric level of

wealth that Donald Trump sees with

jealousy about every day of his

life the drama Donald Trump is living

through now now the drama he's living

through tonight the drama that we are

all

watching was foretold when the

presidential election was called for Joe

Biden and Donald Trump officially

entered the history books as a loser on

that day Peter Marx the drama critic of

the Washington Post

wrote I imagine it as a chilling final

turn of the plot his world is coming to

an end

he will never have another good day

loser label will haunt him the law will

pursue him mental illness will hobble

him his

properties will bankrupt

him leading off our discussion tonight

is Tim O'Brien senior executive editor

for Bloomberg opinion and author of

trump Nation he is host of the Bloomberg

podcast crash course and an MSNBC

political analyst also Ander Weissman

former FBI general counsel and former

Chief of the Criminal Division in the

eastern district of New York he is the

coauthor of the New York Times

best-selling book the Trump indictments

uh Andrew Eisman as we close in on

Monday uh what will you be looking for

on

Monday the trial date you know I think

um looking at the

papers uh leaving a leaving aside one

caveat which is that one of Donald

Trump's lawyers is really a superb

ethical lawyer so you never want to sort

of count her out I'm I'm going to be

interested to seeing what Susan necklace

that defense lawyer has to say what

arguments she makes but having read the

papers on both sides this really looks

like a sort of minor kurur fuckle I

think the judge will be focused on is

there anything there that's going to

take more than the 30 days that he is

granted uh and whether the judge will

stick with essentially this trial

starting on ironically given your

opening and what you talked about April

15th um but I I sort of expect that we

will get a trial date that is if not

that date shortly thereafter so uh Tim

O'Brien in the Civil uh case now which

enters this new zone of the $454 billion

million doll collection period um we get

the feeling uh from the outside you've

dealt with Donald Trump up close he sued

you for telling the truth about how rich

he wasn't uh you won of course um you

get the feeling that he doesn't actually

feel he can't anticipate danger properly

it's why he went bankrupt in Atlantic

City the the ability to anticipate risk

is what saves businesses from disaster

it saves all areas of life from disaster

he he seems surprised that it has come

to this yeah you know business is

riskmanagement banking is riskmanagement

managing money is risk management I was

he and I were walking around Mara Lago

once in around 2005 talking about when

he almost went personally bankrupt in

the early 1990s and he said you know my

father always said to me never

personally guarantee any loans and and I

made a mistake I I personally guaranteed

too much money in the early 1990s I

didn't think it would catch up with me

and it did and I learned my lesson I

decided I'd never personally guarantee a

loan again after that I later found out

that he was lying to me in that very

moment I didn't know it but it turned

out he had personally guaranteed some of

the loans on a new building he was he

was developing in Chicago that only came

out a few years later um so he goes

through these searing moments where he

almost loses everything he can has and

he says I've learned these lessons and I

should have listened to my father and

then lo and behold he's doing the same

old thing and now here we are in you

know in

2024 and and he is about to get exposed

it's going to be a slow grind I don't

think there's going to be a lot of drama

on Monday but the process of opening the

kimono and and discovering that indeed

Donald Trump has no Financial clothing

at least not the kind of financial

clothing he's claimed he's had begins

and and it is a demonstration that he

doesn't learn his lessons he doesn't

anticipate problems properly and he

doesn't do it because he's a juvenile

delinquent he he lacks the maturity and

the wisdom and the Strategic Insight of

an adult uh and and Andrew Barbara Jones

role in this uh by that's been expanded

uh by judge andoran includes the

following it it says that uh she should

monitor in advance any efforts to secure

shy bonds so that would mean if anything

was going on this weekend you have to go

through her first or in the last few

days and it says uh she also has the

authority uh to examine any

representations made by the Trump

organization in connection with securing

such bonds so Andrew that seems to

indicate that whatever goes on here uh

cannot be done secretly e even some

magical multi-billionaire Angel who

wants to come in and drop that money uh

in Donald Trump's pocket it's seems

Barbara Jones would have to know about

that that's absolutely right and so

people understand Barbara Jones is a

former Federal prosecutor who for years

served as an article 3 federal judge in

the southern district of New York and

has been engaged in oversight of the

Trump organization judging Goran in the

Civil fraud case has expanded her role

to as exactly you said making sure that

that there are no Financial Shenanigans

going on um because the judge has found

that there was a history of Fraud and

financial Shenanigans and so he's trying

to make sure that does not repeat itself

so she will be overseeing whether for

instance um there's a purported sale of

an asset with you know which was not

really at market value um making sure

that there is no fraud going on to at

the last minute somehow manufacturer the

sum of money that Donald Trump needs I

would also just point out the stupidity

of Donald Trump saying today that he

actually has the money he has pending

before the court an application where

the application to the court is please

lower the bond amount because I cannot

pay it and at the same time he has said

I can pay it so just put yourself in the

shoes of the judges who have that

application

them do you think they would grant that

based on the defendant now saying oh I

can actually pay it I mean one way or

the other somebody is lying about that

and I've never seen a stupider litigant

in court on a very consistent basis uh

and Andrew let me take you back to uh

the criminal prosecution you're talking

about in Manhattan which is obviously

going to be the first criminal

prosecution of Donald Trump and it's

pretty clear that it is going to happen

uh if not in April ail certainly by May

and and with the latest pleadings we've

seen in this case uh that concern the

recently developed evidence that the

district attorney is saying look there

isn't much there it's largely

duplicative it doesn't require a lot of

time to uh to modify the defense in a

way that includes that new evidence so

uh we are going to know uh do you expect

that we will have a trial date set soon

or might might the trial date discussion

uh be be continued for a

bit it is possible but you know this is

a serious judge and he clearly was not

happy about this predicament I I would

be surprised if we don't hear something

on Monday if not Tuesday about the trial

date I I just think the papers that were

submitted by the DA's office are so

thorough um because they laid out they

gave so many affidavits as to what it

precisely happened but I just think it

Narrows the issues for the judge on

Monday that I'd be surprised that he

doesn't just you know hear from the

defense rule on it and then say this is

the trial date and give everyone advaned

warning that that's what I would

anticipate and Tim to Donald Trump who

apparently his his mind works like a

junkies he he only deals with the thing

in front of them at that moment right so

when we get past the whole issue of

what's happening with the collection of

the the half a billion dollars for any

other person the looming criminal trial

that is right behind it right behind it

would be really top of mine now it's it

seems like his brain won't even start to

worry about that until it's a couple of

days before going to going to trial and

where and in which he might have to

testify and and he is a lawyer's worst

Nightmare on the stand he is he he

bloviates he lies he doesn't stay on

script and undoubtedly he's not

listening to any advice he's getting

from them right now it is the legal

equivalent of what he does financially

in his business life which is to not

anticipate the freight trains that are

rolling towards him in an existential

way and and he just doesn't know what to

do Tim O'Brien's going to stick with us

to guide us through more of this Andrew

Weissman thank you very much for

starting off our discussion tonight and

a podcast note as Donald Trump's first

criminal the sheriff literally send the

sheriff to begin collecting from Donald

Trump that's

next New York attorney general Leticia

James first move against Donald Trump's

assets might be at the most liquid

assets beginning of course with cash the

near Times reports she could send

so-called restraining notices to Mr

Trump's Banks and broke B's firms

effectively freezing his accounts she

could do the same to anyone who owes Mr

Trump money essentially collecting rent

from tenants in his building here is

what former New York Assistant Attorney

General Adam Pollock said last night on

this program about what we can expect to

see next

week well we should see on Monday or we

should see after the expiration of the

deadline is a few devices used to

enforce the Judgment one is Bank

execution

the Attorney General can enlist the

sheriff or the Marshal kind of a wild

west meets New York City to go execute

on Bank on banks on assets held in

financial institutions like Banks or

others to what does execute mean so

execute nobody's dying right but the

assets get seized by the sheriff and

turned over to the Attorney General's

office to the state of New York right

away right away no judicial process

involved the statute says forth

with Politico reports that after that

after going after Trump's bank accounts

Attorney General James would likely then

move on to seizing either Trump's

personal property planes cars jewelry

artwork or real estate such as Trump

Tower 40 Wall Street or the Trump

National Durell Golf Resort joining us

now is Mark Zer a veteran New York

business litigator who has secured many

appeals bonds and Tim O'Brien is still

with us uh Mark the sheriff is coming

literally the sheriff is coming well he

doesn't wear a hat got a badge here or

you know we we picture in our Mind's Eye

that come Monday if there's no bond

posted you're going to have little

people running around the city you know

from the Sheriff's Office putting

padlocks on real estate that's not going

to happen we're going to have a lot of

paper shuffling and as your last night's

guest said there are processes there but

it's going to take a little longer I

believe that was outlined so the these

devices that were referenced can be used

simultaneously so let's go after the lwh

hanging fruit that's the bank accounts

right well here's what happens so you

deliver a piece of paper to the sheriff

it's called an execution the paper is

brought to the bank that's called a levy

that secures in priority uh the Attorney

General's position on those accounts the

restraining order that you've served

sometimes only preserves a for some

other creditor that comes first you have

to perfect you have to have that Levy

and then if the money is not turned over

which it normally is not until there is

what's called a turnover proceeding

brought which is an order from the court

that's sought to turnover the

proceedings to the attorney general so

it happens but it happens not in a in a

nanc at the same time she will be

turning retention to real estate but

that's tricky remember she can only get

her hands on and order the sale uh of

the interests that Mr Trump has now you

take 40 Wall Street for example which

we've we've seen talked about a lot uh

in the media he doesn't own the building

he has a ground lease so he since he

doesn't he he leases the ground the

building is on he owns he leases it to

yes the tenant is the owner of the

building so she can come in and uh for

clo on it so to speak the the sheriff

will levy on it and it will be put off

at auction at the best value who's going

to buy it and how much are they going to

pay for it uh or she might get an order

from the court called the charging order

where she can keep temporarily the the

fees that are coming in from the tenant

the building owner but he doesn't own it

in other situations the real estate he's

owned is owned by various corporations

and he has an interest in corporations

that have interest in those corporations

you can't get that real estate sold that

way all that can happen is the attorney

general buyers don't want a transaction

that complicated yes and they don't want

a minority or even an interest in

stocking some company that's you're that

may have liabilities they don't know

it's like when you in a business

transaction you may want to buy an asset

but you're not going to buy stock

because you don't know what liabilities

go with the assets so it's going to take

time uh Tim O'Brien I am shocked uh

Donald Trump doesn't own what he says he

owns I am shocked I thought he owned 40

Wall Street uh he's got this new deal

that he's uh happy about this merger uh

with his uh website his website is worth

nothing uh on the day of the merger uh

but there's no way that's going to

affect his financial picture on Monday

it absolutely won't he he's locked up

from selling the shares for six months

anyway the the value of the shares are

going to be variable over time so anyone

attaching that at an asset it's not

going to be something that's going to be

attractive to them because they can't

actually predict what the value of it

will be over time once it's publicly

traded and and and and Trump's own you

know the spack itself they've all been

full of speculative collapses the the

the operating numbers of this particular

company are not great it is writing on

the gas of Trump's name being attached

to it and as Mark just pointed out

Trump's name being attached to something

doesn't necessarily mean permanent value

or ownership there's a number of

buildings in New York the Trump

International Tower Columbus Circle GE

owns that not Donald Trump a German owns

the land under 40 Wall Street Trump

Tower most of it is owned by the condo

uh owners who own the apartments in that

in that Tower he controls some of the

commercial space in the basement and his

own condo but he doesn't own the whole

building and he Mark I I got to ask you

about we've been talking about Donald

Trump's inability to anticipate risk

anticipate danger anticipate where he's

going to hit the wall you've represented

clients in situations like this where

the Judgment has gone against them at

what point in the proceedings do you

tell your client if this judgment goes

against you here is what the proceedings

here's what the proceedings are going to

be here's what you're going to face uh I

I would suspect you tell them that early

in the process like somewhere in the

first week or so so they can think about

is there a settlement to there's a lot

of things to think about when you

understand what the risk is 100% it's

probably the first conversation after

you get your retainer okay so uh ABS

absolutely so if I could add to what my

colle so what would you have said in in

a case like this involving okay there's

there's business fraud here the attorney

general has what they have uh if the

judge finds against you what would you

have told your client early on in a case

like this well I'd tell them what would

happen I'd go through these steps if you

lose i' try to give an honest view of

the merits of the case as I understand

it and sometimes a client will ask well

if I lose you know can they get my

assets and can I do anything about it I

say that's not what I'm representing you

for and if he wants to do things that

involve planning to get his assets out

of the jurisdiction some clients do I

don't get involved with that I'm sure Mr

Trump has had extensive counseling about

his assets at this point and by the way

on Monday this merger where he's going

to get stock it's not going to do them

any good the court won't take it Court

only wants cash a bonding company is not

going to take it to issue a bond because

who's who it's speculative and if they

took it and two years from now they had

to pay out what would it be worth so and

it finally it's going to be attached by

Leticia James the money will go to her

if this money so it's it's nothing uh we

got to leave it there mark zauer and Tim

O'Brien thank you both very much for

this important decision discussion I'm

learning so much that I didn't know

coming up the worst of the Civil Trial

penalties that Donald Trump faces could

still be ahead of him as he faces

multiple lawsuits over the January 6th

attack on the capital that he incited

those cases could cost Donald Trump

several hundred million dollar in

judgments against him Congressman Eric

swell is one of the people suing Donald

Trump for what happened on January 6th

he'll join us

next other lawsuits on Donald Trump's

legal Horizon in Washington DC could

cost him several hundred million doar

last year a Washington DC jury returned

a judgment of 14 8 million against

Rudolph Giuliani for

defamation imagine how big a dollar

judgment a Washington DC jury might

return against Donald Trump for the

physical injuries suffered by police

officers on January 6th who are now

suing Donald Trump for that a Washington

DC jury decided that Rudolph Giuliani

must pay Georgia pole workers Ruby

Freeman and wander Shay Moss 100 $148

million for lying about them jurors

drawn from the same jury pool will

decide five different lawsuits filed

against Donald Trump for causing the

attack on the capital on January 6th

Congressman Eric swalwell filed one of

those lawsuits and we'll join us in a