Is Overclocking now useless?
Summary
TLDRThe video discusses the concept of overclocking and its diminishing relevance in modern computing, particularly for high-end CPUs and GPUs. It explains how manufacturers like Intel and AMD have pushed their components to the limit, leaving little room for users to overclock. The video also touches on the evolution of GPU boost technologies and the challenges in achieving significant overclocks. It concludes by highlighting the importance of cooling solutions for managing the power demands of contemporary hardware.
Takeaways
- 🚀 Overclocking modern CPUs and GPUs is less about pushing beyond rated speeds and more about achieving advertised speeds sustainably.
- 💻 The concept of overclocking being 'dead' refers to the reduced headroom for manual overclocking due to manufacturers pushing components close to their limits out of the box.
- 🎮 High-end gaming PCs from companies like Falcon Northwest focus on providing a true high-end experience with custom cases and rigorous testing.
- 🔧 Achieving the full advertised performance of a CPU now almost feels like an overclock due to the power and thermal limits set by manufacturers.
- 🌡️ Factors like thermal headroom, power limits, and power draw play crucial roles in determining the achievable clock speeds of CPUs and GPUs.
- 💡 Modern CPUs, like the Intel 14900 K, can achieve high single-core and all-core speeds, but sustaining these at 100% load can be challenging due to power and thermal constraints.
- 🛠️ Overclocking tools like Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility (XTU) allow for on-the-fly adjustments to performance parameters within the operating system.
- 🔥 ASIC quality becomes significant when trying to undervolt and overclock CPUs for better performance without excessive power draw or temperature increases.
- 🎲 The difficulty in achieving significant overclocks on GPUs has led to a focus on taming the power and heat output of high-end components.
- 💻 The script suggests a resurgence in interest for water cooling due to the power demands of modern high-end CPUs and GPUs, making it relevant again for cooling solutions.
Q & A
What is the main topic discussed in the transcript?
-The main topic discussed in the transcript is the concept of overclocking, its relevance in modern computing, and the challenges involved in achieving stable overclocks with current high-end CPUs and GPUs.
What does overclocking mean in the context of the transcript?
-In the context of the transcript, overclocking refers to the practice of pushing computer components, such as CPUs or GPUs, beyond their rated speeds to achieve higher performance.
Why is achieving stable overclocks difficult with modern components?
-Achieving stable overclocks is difficult with modern components because manufacturers are already pushing the components close to their limits out of the box, leaving little headroom for further overclocking. Additionally, the power and thermal constraints of these components make it challenging to sustain higher clock speeds without risking instability or damage.
What is the significance of the 5.5 GHz clock speed mentioned in the transcript?
-The 5.5 GHz clock speed mentioned in the transcript is significant because it represents a high-performance target for modern CPUs. It is an example of the rated speed that some CPUs claim they can achieve, but in reality, sustaining this speed under full load can be difficult due to power and thermal limitations.
What is the role of power limits in the overclocking process?
-Power limits play a crucial role in the overclocking process as they determine the amount of power that can be supplied to the CPU or GPU. Higher power limits can allow for higher clock speeds, but they also increase temperatures, which can lead to stability issues if not properly managed with adequate cooling solutions.
How has the practice of overclocking evolved over the years?
-Overclocking has evolved from a practice where enthusiasts could push their CPUs and GPUs significantly beyond their rated speeds to a more challenging endeavor where manufacturers have already optimized performance out of the box, leaving little room for further manual overclocking. The focus has shifted from achieving higher clock speeds to managing the power and thermal demands of high-performance components.
What is the significance of the core clock speed in CPUs and GPUs?
-The core clock speed in CPUs and GPUs is a measure of the frequency at which these components operate. Higher clock speeds generally result in better performance, but as the transcript discusses, achieving and sustaining these higher speeds, especially under load, has become more difficult with modern components due to their power and thermal constraints.
What is the role of voltage in the overclocking process?
-Voltage plays a critical role in overclocking as it directly affects the performance and stability of the CPU or GPU. Increasing the voltage can allow for higher clock speeds, but it also increases power draw and heat output, which must be managed carefully to avoid damaging the components.
Why is undervolting a CPU or GPU important in the context of the script?
-Undervolting a CPU or GPU is important because it allows for the reduction of power draw and heat output without significantly impacting performance. This can lead to more stable and efficient operation, especially when trying to achieve sustained high-performance levels or when working with the limitations of a specific cooling solution.
What is the impact of GPU Boost and similar technologies on the overclocking landscape?
-GPU Boost and similar technologies have automated the overclocking process for GPUs, allowing them to automatically adjust clock speeds based on temperature headroom and power limits. This has reduced the need for manual overclocking and has made it more challenging for users to achieve significant performance gains beyond the factory settings.
What is the significance of water cooling in the context of high-end CPUs and GPUs?
-Water cooling is becoming increasingly relevant for high-end CPUs and GPUs due to the high thermal and power demands of these components. As manufacturers push the performance limits, traditional air cooling solutions may not be sufficient, making water cooling a more effective option for managing the heat output and maintaining stable operation at high clock speeds.
Outlines
🚀 Overclocking and Modern Hardware Capabilities
This paragraph discusses the concept of overclocking and its relevance in today's computing environment, focusing on modern CPU and GPU components. It highlights the capabilities of high-end custom gaming systems from Falcon Northwest, emphasizing their state-of-the-art testing and design for optimal performance. The discussion includes the technical aspects of overclocking, such as pushing ASICs beyond their rated speeds, the importance of thermal headroom, and power limits. It also touches on the evolution of CPU clock speeds and the challenges of achieving advertised performance levels due to power and thermal constraints.
🔧 The Reality of Overclocking in Current Hardware
The paragraph delves into the practical challenges of overclocking modern components, such as the Intel 14900 K CPU. It explains how achieving the advertised clock speeds often requires manipulating system settings, as the hardware is already pushed to its limits out of the box. The discussion includes the use of Intel's Extreme Tuning Utility (XTU) and the impact of power limits on achieving sustained performance. The paragraph also addresses the quality of the ASIC and the role of voltage management in achieving stable overclocks, highlighting the diminishing returns of traditional overclocking methods in the face of power and thermal constraints.
🌡️ Balancing Frequency, Voltage, and Stability
This section explores the relationship between frequency, voltage, and stability in overclocking. It describes attempts to achieve higher clock speeds by adjusting voltage offsets and monitoring temperature limits. The importance of maintaining stability under extreme workloads is emphasized, as well as the diminishing benefits of undervolting and overclocking in the context of modern hardware. The paragraph also reflects on the historical significance of overclocking and how it has evolved from a method of significantly increasing performance to a more nuanced approach focused on managing power-hungry and thermally demanding components.
💡 The Changing Landscape of Overclocking
The final paragraph discusses the shifting landscape of overclocking, particularly in the GPU market. It contrasts the past practices of significant frequency increases with the current reality where GPUs automatically overclock to their limits. The paragraph explains how manufacturers like NVIDIA and AMD have incorporated features like GPU Boost and Precision Boost Overdrive that reduce the need for manual overclocking. It also touches on the resurgence of water cooling due to the power and thermal demands of high-end CPUs and GPUs, and the author's intention to focus on water cooling projects in response to these demands.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡overclocking
💡CPU
💡GPU
💡thermal headroom
💡power limit
💡Falcon Northwest
💡ASIC
💡TDP
💡voltage
💡stress test
💡water cooling
Highlights
The concept of 'overclocking being dead' is discussed in the context of modern CPU and GPU components.
Falcon Northwest has been building high-end gaming PCs for over 30 years, focusing on custom cases and rigorous testing for optimal performance.
Overclocking involves pushing an ASIC beyond its rated speeds, applicable to CPUs, GPUs, and even Raspberry Pi.
Modern CPUs have varying clock speeds and core counts, with high-end models advertising speeds up to 5.5 GHz or more.
Achieving advertised clock speeds often requires manipulating power and voltage settings, as components are pushed to their limits.
The 14900 K CPU is demonstrated to run at 253 Watts, reaching its max power rating, but not sustaining the advertised all-core speed of 5.5 GHz.
Motherboard manufacturers are criticized for lifting power limits out of the box, which can lead to higher temperatures and potential performance issues.
Overclocking has evolved from pushing beyond specified speeds to trying to achieve and sustain advertised speeds under load.
The quality of the ASIC plays a role in how much voltage can be reduced while still achieving high clock speeds.
The importance of achieving advertised speeds for sustained periods is emphasized over the traditional concept of overclocking.
GPUs have built-in features like NVIDIA's GPU Boost and AMD's Precision Boost Overdrive that allow for automatic overclocking out of the box.
The fun of tinkering and overclocking has been diminished as manufacturers push the limits out of the box, leaving little room for user adjustments.
The focus is shifting towards managing the power and heat output of high-end CPUs and GPUs, making water cooling more relevant.
The high-end CPU and GPU market demands more power and cooling solutions, with some CPUs exceeding 300 Watts and GPUs over 600 Watts.
The video discusses the practical challenges and diminishing returns of overclocking in the current landscape of high-performance computing.
Transcripts
you know there's this concept of
overclocking being dead that I sort of
want to talk about um it's partially
true but we we're we're going to talk
about modern CPU components even GPU
components and whether or not like
overclockability is something you should
even care about
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so all overclocking means is pushing an
Asic Beyond its like rated speeds so an
aset could be anything it could be a CPU
it could be a GPU it could be a
Raspberry Pi right it could literally be
anything anything that has a core clock
um so our CPUs as you know have all
sorts of varying clock speeds these days
and there's like single core there's two
core there's like three core six core
eight core and what I mean by that is
that's the amount of cores under load
that determine the speed so that's why
every single CPU that you look at now
says up to 5.5 GHz or up to 5.8 GHz
because there's a very strict set of
criteria that has to be met to be able
to get that clock speed is there thermal
Headroom are you anywhere near your your
TJ Maxx on temperature uh what is your
power limit what is your power draw it's
like power draw would be things like how
many amps is it actually drawing through
the CPU how how much voltage is being
sent to the GPU how hot's the GPU so all
these things play into a factor when it
comes to your clock speeds now the thing
is with modern modern components being
pushed as far as they're being pushed
today like 5 GHz was a pipe dream 5
years ago like 5 years ago sure you
might have you might have had a 9900 K
here and there that could hit like 5 GHz
it's maybe all core maybe and then
really good chips might be able to do
like 5 one single or dual core load now
we're talking like 58 or 14900 K is
doing like 5,800 MHz single core and two
core load and then up to 5.5 gahz all
core that's like completely unheard of
but one of the ways that they've
achieved that is the fact that they have
to push the power limits kind of to an
insane envelopes so for instance the
14900 K which I have installed on my
test bench right here on an Asus
uh board I don't remember which one it
is exactly I really don't remember which
one it is it says up to 5.5 GHz but it
run it's at 253 Watts now what I'm going
to show you here real quickly real quick
and we'll kind of do some demonstrations
here of of how to get the full
advertised performance out of your CPU
because essentially it's almost like an
overclock now to get the advertised
speeds which is really stupid and should
border on marketing legality at this
point um you can see right here we have
a couple cores that are sitting in the
5.8 GHz range there's one right there
there's one right there it's going to
hand off to down there watch see that
went 55 back and so Core 2 and three in
the P core Arrangement tend to be the
preferred cores for the higher clock
speeds all the e cores as you can see at
4.3 now realistically what should happen
here is when I start cinebench we should
see it go to 5.5 GHz all core the
problem is what we're going to find is
that getting 5.5 GHz all core at a full
100% % sustained load is not what you're
going to get you're going to get like 52
51 so check this out we don't care about
our score and stuff right now on sbench
I'm just using this as a benchmark to
load up the CPU so right now we'll look
at the scores to compare but I don't as
as I hit start on allore test or
multicore you're going to see 55 on all
cores now 5'2 it dropped like we got
like three or four seconds of 5.5 GHz
and what sucks about that is that's all
that was basically required for Intel's
up to 5.5 GHz to really legal so our
power shoots right up to
253 XX watts and that's exactly what
it's max power rating is now that's why
we're not actually able to get 55 on all
cores sustained is because there has to
be a limiting factor there's there is a
throttle reason yes right now if I was
to bring up XTU or extreme tuning
utility uh from Intel it would have a
throttle reason of yes as power power
would be our limiting factor here so
what a lot of motherboard manufacturers
are doing is they're lifting up those
power limits out of the box I've already
done a complete rant video explaining
that it motherboard manufacturers need
to leave Intel limits in place unless
the user goes in and specifies lift
those limits because the cooler has
everything to do with how well it can
perform cuz the problem is when you lift
the power what do you do you also lift
the temperatures what's essentially
become
overclocking these days is not pushing
the core necessarily Beyond it rated
spef or specified speeds which is the up
to 5.8 single core and up to 5.5 GHz all
core on a 49 or 4900 K it's just trying
to manipulate the specs to get the
advertise speeds sustained so let's do
this I'm going to go ahead and load up
XTU I love XTU because it allows me to
make these changes on the fly in the OS
so right now what I want to see is can I
even come close to getting Beyond 5.5
GHz all core
and I'm not entirely so sure because
components are pushed so close to the
Limit these days with that you know well
over well into the 5 GHz range even the
AMD and that's a AMD rig behind me with
a I don't remember which CPU is on there
but it's an AMD system right there even
with amds Precision boost overdrive and
stuff it's very difficult to get the
advertised speeds for very long and even
those CPUs are up into the 5 GHz plus
range now which is huge for AMD they
were lacking in the clock speeds for so
long and they've definitely caught up
into that 5 gz race so here's our multi
our performance core ratio multiplier 55
so it's that times 100 how we get the
5500 and then the efficiency core at 4.3
now what I'm going to do right now is I
actually have to go
into you know what I'm going to click
automatic overclock and see what happens
I haven't done this in a
while let's just see if it actually does
anything
useful okay so it lifted at 100 MHz on
each and lifted the offset by 20 molts
well the attemp went to 9 DC immediately
there's 55 all core now we drop 54 hey
it's actually doing something look at
our TDP right there 330 WTS 903c on the
core and we are getting the 5.5 GHz all
core you notice we have 5.6 selected and
we're not getting 56 we're actually at
54 right now and that's because of the
fact that it probably upped our power
limit to that 330 Mark which means that
with our voltage being extremely high
right now at
1.33 we're not even getting the number
we put in we're still not even getting
sustained advertis
numbers and we've added clock speed and
we've added voltage so the power and
current limits optimized gave us a limit
of 330 which is what I thought just
based on what I saw right there 425 amps
and then know so now we can actually
adjust this sort of stuff but I'm going
to go 5 six I'm going try 57 allore at
stock voltages let the 330 be the thing
I'm not going to update the voltage yeah
so you're immediately down to 5.5 GHz
we're at
323 Watts 91c now this is this is where
Asic quality really starts to play a
role where if we have a really good CPU
that will allow us to undervolt and
overclock then we'll get really good
performance here and I think 330 watt is
a safe limit to have because of the fact
that we know the 360 cooler can handle
that anything more than that would
require some exotic cooling probably
something chilled or or Beyond room temp
there's a
38835 but this is still underperforming
so much versus what I would expect I've
gotten for or 13900 K to be nearly
40,000 and above 40,000 this so far
would start to be a lot of tuning and a
lot of work for 300 MHz now what's more
important than quote unquote
overclocking these days is just getting
our advertised speeds for sustained
periods of time so here's what we're
going to do again we're going to drop
this back down to
5.5 we're going to leave the efficiency
core at uh 43 which is
stock and what I'm going to do is I'm
going to I want to leave the enhanced
limits cuz we know we need more power
limit to get it done but I'm going to
start playing with a offset here I'm
going to go minus 50
molts and let's see if this will allow
us to get all I'm trying to do now screw
overclocking I'm just trying to get that
allore number to stay all the time now
the thing is while gaming and stuff
right now with a lesser load it would
probably stay at 5'5 just fine but
overclocks are not considered stable
unless they can handle extreme workloads
like this without crashing like there's
game stable there's like General usage
stable and then there's like stress test
table and stress test table is the only
one that we really truly care about okay
there's 55 all
core 84c still at
55 84 83 so that looks like we have a
pretty good comparison there where
temperature is not going to cause us to
drop 55 the entire
time there's a 38329 so you see all I
did was I didn't overclock anything I
just dropped how much voltage it needed
um yeah we're only pulling 288 Watts
right now which is nice at 5.5 GHz but
as you can see the stock speeds couldn't
sustain that but the stock 253 watt
because the up two and the 253 watt
limit were never going to allow full
load to sustain those types of clocks
but I do want to see now if we can do a
56 allcore overclock at a minus 50 now
we're overclocking technically because
we are above the 5.5 recommended not
recommended but stated Max up two speeds
we stay at 56 the whole time there's a
38729 so not a huge gain but voltage and
frequency are linked so as frequency
goes up voltage goes up with it so now
I'm going to try minus
60 so now we drop to 307
309 or 89c
so this is also a spike right this is
the max temp so that means it hit 91 for
a second we're at 8889 now so we drop 3
c 2 c 3 C but there also will become a
point where you'll see the clocks the
stain but if you drop the voltage too
far you'll notice the score drops even
though the frequency stays the same and
the reason for that is because of the
lower uh available wattage to it and
that wattage um voltage linear frequency
scale you might there might be uh
frequency changes happening too quickly
to actually see in the software but the
frequency might be doing quick micro
adjustments that's enough to actually
affect the score so once you start to
see the score go down if you can if
you're like I can keep undervolting this
is is great you might notice performance
going down with it and stability is
still being there I'm going to drop down
to minus 80 and see if we can sustain
that if so then I might push the
efficiency cores up to 46 now we're
technically in overclocking territory oh
see we actually drop score right there
is a 39634 so I'm going to run this
again just to see if we continue like we
lost 200 points by dropping our voltage
I want to make sure not we're not
getting like micro throttling with the
frequency here that could have just been
a weird back-to-back run on that one
yeah we lost more points
39577 so I'm going to go- 75 and see if
that 5 molts helps you'd be surprised
what 5 molts can actually do it's a
39779 okay so let's try 46 eor oh
there's a hard system
lock so this video right now was not
about showing
you how to overclock it is showing you
how much work is actually kind of
involved to get a very mediocre
overclock overclocking The Way We Know
It And used to know it is very very
different than 10 years ago my best
overclocking CPU I ever owned was a
e6300 core2 Duo 1.86 GHz processor that
I ran at
3.34 GHz for its entire life almost
double the rated
speed it was two cores and no
hyperthreading that actually was
hyperthreading I don't remember I cannot
remember if it was hyperthreaded or not
but all I know is the frequency it ran
at was insane I ran that CPU for years
and then gave it to my brother-in-law
where he ran it until he killed the
motherboard completely unrelated to the
CPU that CPU never complained about
temperatures or frequency that was some
one of the most underrated CPUs ever but
back in the day you know we would be
able to push our our frequ we would see
CPU frequencies pushed 1,000 MHz above
its posted speeds but because the
hardware is being pushed to its limits
now because of the CPU race that took
place ever since ryzen came out with AMD
giving actual danger to Intel's market
share when it comes to desktop Computing
we saw this Race For Speed for clock
speed so essentially the manufacturers
like Intel and AMD have found ways to
push their CPUs to the Limit as close to
the Limit as they possibly can out of
the box I those updates underway push
the limits as far as they can out of the
box leaving us very little Headroom to
be able to actually kind of overclock
now gpus let's talk about gpus for a
second here I don't even really need to
demonstrate this one every single GPU
you plop on your computer on your
motherboard and fire up like MSI
afterburner and monitor your speeds
every single one of them will go beyond
where they're advertised they will Auto
overclock and that's by Design because
it's called GPU boost for NVIDIA um AMD
has other uh like Auto overclocks and
rage mode and stuff like that which are
not quite as a aggressive cuz AMD is
still kind of figuring out the the the
Silicon limits and stuff when it comes
to their gpus so they don't actually
allow you to push them too too far
there's a lot of modding required to
really push an AMD GPU but Nvidia on the
other hand when it comes to GPU boost
we're in GPU boost 3 plus territory now
where back in the day it used to push
the frequency if there was available
temperature Headroom then they GP boost
would allow it to push the frequency
with temperature Headroom and power
limit Headroom where it could go beyond
specified power limits see back in the
earlier days of GPU boost uh 1.0 you
could actually modify the voltage slider
you could actually move the voltage
slider and have it affect actual voltage
to the GPU giving you proper like real
overclock overclockability when it comes
to the end user once GPU Boost 2.0
allowed for power limit adjustment the
control of the voltage stopped being
accessible to the end user where all you
could do is control the voltage slider
what I mean by that is like I referenced
with the c you have there's a frequency
and a voltage uh correlation like
correlation between the two if you move
up the frequency the voltage moves with
it all you can do with Nvidia now when
it comes to the voltage slider is move
where that slider is what I mean is you