Victoria Nuland RESIGNS, Glenn Greenwald EVISCERATES Leading Neocon: Interview

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Victoria nuland will step down from her

post as under Secretary of State for

political Affairs the third highest

ranking US Diplomat position known for

her hawkish stance especially toward

Russia and his actions against Ukraine

nulan has increasingly come under Fire

over her views she was passed over for

the number two spot at the state

department by Biden last year now prior

to joining the Biden Administration

nulan served as assistant Secretary of

State for Europe during the Obama

Administration but retired after Donald

Trump was elected now her diplomatic

career took her to Moscow during the

1993 coup against then Russian president

Boris yelson and an ambassador to Nato

and a spokesperson for the Secretary of

State Hillary Clinton Newlands also

known as the spouse of neocon Robert

Kagan now with us to discuss her Legacy

is journalist Glenn Greenwald Glenn it

is an honor to have you on our show

again always great to be with you guys

thanks for asking so I think our viewers

are probably a little bit more educated

about Victoria Newland than uh the

average of viewers of political news

shows but in case anyone has missed out

on what she has been responsible during

her time advising uh presidents why

don't you fill them

in yeah I mean I find her not just a

singularly repellent and destructive

figure but also a highly representative

one a really Vivid vessel through which

we can understand how Washington really

works because although you mentioned

most of the low lights of her career one

of the things you admitted that actually

was most important in launching her as a

major voice in Washington was that she

was Dick Cheney's top advisor in the

White House in 2003 and for the next

several years for counseling him on how

to implement the invasion of Iraq and

then how to maintain the occupation of

Iraq and we're supposed to regard I

thought the Iraq War as some kind of

grave at Best Mistake if not moral crime

the worst war of the last generation and

yet the people responsible which

certainly includes Victoria nulan it's

almost like we don't even remember

anymore who these people are we don't

even mention it we just elected Adam

Smith the Democrats did rather to the

Senate effectively in California last

night he was a major voice for the Iraq

War of course Joe Biden was it's like

this has all been forgotten and then

from there she just continued to

implement classical neoconservative

policies not just wanting to confront

Russia but most other countries in the

world and she's part of this neocon

circle that liberals just 15 years ago

used to describe as warmongering and

psychotic and yet she served very

comfortably under the Obama

Administration with both John krey and

Hillary Clinton then ran Ukraine for

both Obama and now Biden I mean the

Ukraine piece I think where a lot of us

came to be more knowledgeable about

Victoria nulan with the now Infamous

tape recording that seemed to suggest or

seem to demonstrate her trying to choose

the leadership of Ukraine can you unpack

pack that episode for those who might

not be as

aware yeah so well first of all she has

roots in Ukraine her family uh is in

large part from Ukraine and I think a

lot of people have forgotten this part

of history that during the Obama

Administration Obama was reluctant to

confront Russia he didn't want to send

lethal arms to Ukraine he didn't want to

confront Russia over uh Syria he didn't

think Syria or Ukraine was worth risking

a war with Russia but part of the state

department led by Hillary Clinton was

extremely hawkish and pushing to do more

to confront Russia and Hillary and

Victoria newand were very much part of

that when Hillary wrote her book the one

place she was most critical of Obama was

on his refusal to confront Russia more

and she led the way and what you can

basically trace this current war in

Ukraine to was the 2014 US supported

attempt and you can argue about how much

the US was involved but they were

certainly supportive openly of the coup

against the then elected president of

Ukraine who was elected in 2010 served a

five it was supposed to serve a 5-year

office but he was removed moved in 2014

when the US and the EU perceived him as

being too comfortable with Moscow and

Victoria nulan went there she like gave

cupcakes and donuts to the people

outside the palace trying to remove him

from power and that was a key event in

what led to the war in Ukraine and then

as you say she got caught on a tape

recorded conversation that they claimed

the Russians hacked and released but

whoever it was it was certainly an

authentic H where she was plotting with

the then US ambassador to to Ukraine

over exactly which people the US wanted

to take which positions in the Ukrainian

government once this uh elected

president was removed and then after

that coup was effectuated exactly the

people that she directed be put into

government ended up ruling Ukraine you

know you mentioned earlier that uh uh

not so long ago um liberals many

Democrats were you know horrified by the

decision to invade Iraq which was

supported by many top Democrats but was

an initiative under a Republican

president and now some certainly not all

but some of the most um kind of

neoconservative or more interventionist

hawkish voices uh continue to exist or

have even maybe grown with respect to

Ukraine in particular in the Democratic

party like I if I'm looking on on X I'm

seeing criticism of Victoria nuland from

you know people U responsible

non-interventionist voices on the left

like yourself but also frankly a lot of

people on the right given how Ukraine

has shifted the political veillance a

little bit seeing like Steve for

instance did an episode in his show

condemning her um that sort of thing

what do you think it says about the

trajectory of the political

transformation on foreign policy taking

place in this

country when I started writing about

politics Robbie it was 2005 late 2005 in

the middle of the war on terror at the

beginning of the second term of buen and

a consensus emerged among liberals then

that neocons were the single worst

faction in American political life Bill

Crystal and Paul wolfowitz I I mean all

these people that brought in Guantanamo

and torture and the invasion of Iraq and

you know the attempt to move that to

Iran and she was not only you know

counseling that but she was also the UN

ambassador to Nato that led the way with

condesa Rice under Bush and trying to

expand NATO up to the Russian border to

include Ukraine which was again probably

the initial act that led us to where we

are in Ukraine so if I had said you know

15 or 10 years ago that Victoria newand

who also again is married to like into

the Kagan family probably the largest

and most important dynastic neocon

family in the United States the brother

the father her husband if you had said

Nikki Victoria Nan was this you know

sort of symbol of American evil every

liberal would applaud you because she

was a well-known recognized neocon which

is what liberals thought now 15 years

later you won't see a single mainstream

Democrat or liberal agreeing with you

that Victoria nand is that and that's

because like most neocons she has

aligned herself with the Democratic

party she served again comfortably in

the Obama Administration she wasn't a

civil servant she was a political

appointee and then again in the Biden

Administration where she Rose to the top

highest level of the state department so

these kinds of people who 10 years ago

were considered Evil by American

liberals and the left are now integrated

into the Democratic party along with the

broader neoconservative movement and

that's not because they changed it's

because the politics of each party did

to what do you attribute her stepping

down I think you know it's I mean one

can only speculate you never really know

for sure but I think in part it's two

things one is the fact that the most

important project for her which is the

war in Ukraine to try and topple Russia

is a gigantic gigantic failure Russia is

the only country expanding the territory

that it holds no by no sense is Ukraine

expelling Russia from any land in

Ukraine let alone all of it which was

the goal of the war at the same time

they can't even get another $60 billion

through the Congress so her main project

is a failure but I think it's more just

career ambition that she really wanted

that number two spot her lifelong

ambition everyone knows is to be

Secretary of State and when Wendy

Sherman reti hired as deputy secretary

of state in August she wanted that job

permanently she got passed over by

somebody who and now her replacement is

also somebody who worked for Dick Cheney

in the dict Cheney George Bush White

House to showing this kind of bipartisan

continuity and probably she feels like

she's at the end of her line of her

career maybe in a second B

Administration if there is one she could

return but for now I think she feels

like she's at a career dead end it is a

powerful example of the tremendous

continuity in American foreign policy

regardless of who gets voted into office

even when when the president is voted in

on an explicitly anti-interventionist or

anti-expansion of the Iraq you know Fury

over Iraq in Afghanistan helped Propel

Obama to Victory and to some extent

Trump even uh but but and yet there is

there is a continuity in the in the the

PE the Victorian nuland type people who

actually make these policies uh does

does that seem to to be the

case yeah I mean she went she goes back

to all the way back to Clinton so she

has served in the state department in

every Administration from Clinton to

Biden except for the four years when

Donald Trump was president that was the

only time she was out of government and

again she started as a civil servant but

the more you go up the ranks they become

political appointees you have to be

appointed by the president sometimes

confirmed by the Senate so after the

Clint year she was a real closely held

adviser and official of George Bush of

Barack Obama of Joe Biden of Dick Cheney

these people that were told can't agree

on anything use this same people to

implement their foreign policy why is

that because they have largely the same

foreign policy and that doesn't change

no matter who you vote for and I think

that's what makes Victoria nulan so

illustrative let me ask you this I mean

as Robbie just alluded to there does

seem to be more energy emerging in this

kind of new faction of the Republican

party that is anti-interventionist at

least in some respects I would say

Ukraine but not Israel for the most part

and I I do wonder if you see that as a

shift away from this kind of

uniform commitment to this kind of

neocon ideology within the parties

there's any possibility that there is a

real movement of foot not just on the

right but because of the burgeoning and

growing uh opposition on the left to the

war in Gaza or do you think that

ultimately and perhaps the the outcome

of the California Senate race is

indicative of this that those kinds of

interest will ultimately be subsumed

into the party

Machinery right I think it's actually a

little bit of all of that I mean first

of all you know you have California the

one of the bluest states in the country

and they not only elect Adam shiff who

was support of the Iraq War but he was

also the candidate endorsed by APAC for

good reason he's probably the most

steadfast supporter of Israel in at

least the California delegation so you

know you have an opportunity to pick

whoever you want they're going to win

the general election you have Katy

Porter Barbara Lee and they chose Adam

Schiff so I think that tells you a lot

where the Democratic party is still on

these issues but Israel is an

interesting kind of switch in this

because virtually the entire Republican

party maybe with one or two exceptions

are fanatical supporters of giving Aid

to Israel in this war supporting Israel

in this destruction of Gaza most of the

democratic party is too although they're

rhetorically at least resisting a little

bit more and I do think that kind of

shows the limits on this realignment

namely that there are a lot of people on

the right who still like Wars as long as

they're not about help helping other

countries become democracies or helping

them improve their societies but if it's

about obliterating someone they regard

as enemies like Arabs and Palestinians

and Muslims they still kind of get

behind it that said there is more

opposition on the right you know very

prominent right-wing pundits like

Candace Owens and Tucker Carlson and a

lot of others from that populist realm

who do are who are now saying for the

first time why are we paying for

Israel's Wars how is that in our

interest but there's also a lot of

reawakened anti-war on the left as a

result of this war in Gaza that I hope

will Revitalize that on the left as well

Glenn Greenwald uh excellent points

thank you so much for joining us can't

appreciate enough always good to see you

guys

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thanks