'You're lying': George Conway clashes with Republican commentator over Trump guilty verdict

CNN
31 May 202409:28

Summary

TLDRThe transcript captures a heated debate surrounding Donald Trump's legal troubles, focusing on the recent verdict in the 'People v. Trump' case. Panelists discuss the implications of the case, which involves alleged lies about hush money payments to Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal. George argues that the case highlights Trump's pattern of criminal behavior, while Scott Jennings counters that there was no underlying crime and criticizes the prosecution as politically motivated. The conversation underscores the deep divide within the Republican Party and the broader political landscape regarding Trump's actions and their consequences.

Takeaways

  • 📰 The New York Trump case is considered by some to be a pivotal moment, highlighting the alleged moral failings of Donald Trump.
  • 🚨 Trump's other criminal cases involve allegations of lying about the 2016 election and stealing military secrets, but the People v. Trump case is seen as more directly related to his character.
  • 🎓 The verdict in the case was not surprising to some, as it was argued that there was no real defense and that the evidence was overwhelming.
  • 🔍 Michael Cohen's testimony about Trump's involvement with Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, along with the 'catch and kill' scheme, was supported by extensive documentation.
  • 👎 There is criticism of Trump's actions, suggesting that his alleged crimes are self-inflicted and that he is not a victim.
  • 🤔 The discussion raises questions about the Republican Party's stance on personal responsibility and law and order, and whether they are holding Trump accountable.
  • 🔗 The case is seen by some as a unifying factor for the Republican Party, potentially increasing support for Trump despite the conviction.
  • 🤨 Some Republicans argue that there was no underlying crime and that the prosecution was politically motivated, with the aim of targeting Trump rather than upholding the law.
  • 🏛️ The Federal Election Commission is described as a broken and paralyzed institution, which may contribute to political issues ending up in the criminal justice system.
  • 🎯 The conversation suggests that the political impact of the case could be significant, potentially backfiring on the Democrats and further energizing Trump's supporters.

Q & A

  • What is the main subject of the discussion in the transcript?

    -The main subject of the discussion is the verdict in the case against Donald Trump, specifically the allegations of lying and the implications of these allegations on his moral presence and political standing.

  • What was the general consensus on the case among the participants in the transcript?

    -The participants had differing views. Some believed the case was clear-cut with no real defense, while others, like Scott Jennings, felt that there was no underlying crime and that the prosecution was politically motivated.

  • What was the role of Michael Cohen in the case mentioned in the transcript?

    -Michael Cohen is mentioned as having testified about Donald Trump's involvement with Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, as well as the alleged 'catch and kill' scheme with the National Enquirer, which was corroborated by documents.

  • What is the significance of the 'catch and kill' scheme mentioned in the transcript?

    -The 'catch and kill' scheme refers to the alleged practice of buying and then suppressing potentially damaging stories, in this case, involving Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, which could be considered a violation of campaign finance laws.

  • What is the opinion of the speaker who was in the courtroom regarding the case's outcome?

    -The speaker who was in the courtroom expressed surprise that many people were surprised by the verdict, stating that they believed the case was never close and that there was really no defense for the allegations.

  • What does the speaker suggest about Donald Trump's character based on the case?

    -The speaker suggests that Donald Trump has been involved in criminal activities throughout his life and that his actions in this case are consistent with a pattern of behavior.

  • What is the political implication discussed regarding the verdict and Donald Trump's future?

    -The political implication discussed is that the verdict could potentially unify the Republican Party behind Trump, increasing his support and enthusiasm among his base.

  • What is the view of the speaker on the Republican Party's response to the allegations against Trump?

    -The speaker criticizes the Republican Party for not holding Trump accountable for his alleged crimes and accuses them of moral rot and a lack of personal responsibility.

  • What is the argument made by Scott Jennings regarding the lack of an underlying crime?

    -Scott Jennings argues that there is no underlying crime because Trump has never been indicted or convicted of the campaign finance theory at the core of the case.

  • What does the speaker suggest about the Federal Election Commission's role in this case?

    -The speaker suggests that the Federal Election Commission is a broken and paralyzed institution that requires a majority to act and has not acted on anything for a decade.

  • What is the implication of the speaker's comment about the Republican convention?

    -The implication is that there is still an opportunity for the Republican convention to replace Trump as their nominee with someone who is not a convicted felon.

Outlines

00:00

🏛️ Trump's Criminal Verdict and Moral Implications

The first paragraph discusses the New York Trump case, which the speaker believes is indicative of Trump's moral failings. The verdict is seen as unsurprising due to the lack of a viable defense and the corroboration of Michael Cohen's testimony regarding Trump's involvement with Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal, the 'catch and kill' scheme, and the use of the National Enquirer. The speaker criticizes Trump's actions, suggesting that his entire life has been criminal and that the Republican Party's refusal to hold him accountable reflects a deep moral decay within the conservative political sphere.

05:02

🔍 Political Backlash and the Unity of the Republican Party

In the second paragraph, the conversation turns to the political implications of the verdict. One speaker argues that the case will backfire on the Democrats, drawing parallels to the unity and anger within the Republican Party during the Brett Kavanaugh hearings. The speaker suggests that the case has galvanized support for Trump within the party. Counterarguments are presented, accusing the opposing speaker of lying about the legal requirements of the case and the clear intent to cover up an underlying crime. The discussion highlights the broken Federal Election Commission and the political system's failure, leading to criminal justice becoming the default remedy. The conversation ends with a challenge to the Department of Justice's decision not to prosecute and a prediction that any attempt to jail Trump would have severe political repercussions.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Verdict

A verdict is the decision made by a judge or jury at the end of a trial. In the context of the video, the verdict refers to the legal outcome concerning Donald Trump's alleged involvement in a case related to campaign finance violations. The script mentions the surprise of many people at the verdict, indicating its significance in the broader political and legal discourse.

💡Campaign Finance

Campaign finance refers to the funds raised or spent in political campaigns. The script discusses campaign finance in the context of alleged violations by Donald Trump, suggesting that he may have engaged in illegal financial activities to influence an election, which is a central theme in the discussion.

💡Corroboration

Corroboration is the act of supporting a statement or claim with additional evidence. In the script, it is mentioned that the claims made by Michael Cohen about Donald Trump were corroborated by documents, which strengthens the case against Trump and is crucial for understanding the legal proceedings.

💡Catch and Kill

The term 'catch and kill' refers to a practice where a publication acquires and then suppresses a story, often to protect someone from negative publicity. The script mentions this in relation to the National Enquirer's alleged involvement with Donald Trump, suggesting a strategy to manage public perception during a political campaign.

💡Partisan Prosecutor

A partisan prosecutor is one who is perceived to be biased towards a particular political party or ideology. The script discusses the role of a prosecutor who allegedly targeted Donald Trump, reflecting on the political motivations behind legal actions and their implications for the case's credibility.

💡Underlying Crime

An underlying crime refers to the primary illegal activity that other crimes are based on or related to. The script debates whether there was an underlying crime in the case against Trump, which is central to the argument about the legitimacy of the charges brought against him.

💡Indictment

An indictment is a formal charge or allegation made against someone, typically in writing, that they have committed a crime. The script mentions the lack of an indictment for Donald Trump in relation to campaign finance theory, which is a key point of contention in the discussion.

💡Moral Presence

Moral presence refers to the perception of someone's moral character or integrity. The script suggests that the alleged lies in the case against Trump strike at the core of his moral presence, indicating that the case has implications beyond the legal realm and touches on his public image and trustworthiness.

💡Constitutional Overthrow

Constitutional overthrow refers to the illegal or undemocratic attempt to take control of a government, often by undermining its foundational laws. The script alludes to accusations against Trump of attempting to overthrow the Constitution, which is part of the broader narrative about his actions and their consequences.

💡Republican Party

The Republican Party is one of the two major political parties in the United States, often associated with conservative policies. The script discusses the party's stance and actions regarding Donald Trump, reflecting on the political dynamics and the party's values in the context of the case.

💡Moral Rot

Moral rot refers to a perceived decay or corruption of moral values or principles. The script uses this term to describe the state of the conservative side of politics, suggesting a critical view of the party's response to the allegations against Trump and its broader implications for political ethics.

Highlights

The New York Trump case is considered perfect due to its focus on alleged lies that strike at the core of Trump's moral presence.

George's surprise at the public's surprise regarding the verdict, given the case's clear evidence and lack of defense.

Michael Cohen's testimony about Donald Trump, Stormy Daniels, and Karen McDougal was corroborated by documents.

Trump's history of criminal behavior and his inability to change, as suggested by the speaker.

Criticism of Trump's son and him claiming victimization in a supposed scheme by President Biden.

Advice against falsifying business records and committing felonies, with a direct reference to Trump's alleged actions.

Trump's alleged rape and subsequent defamation of the woman, and the suggestion that he should stop lying about it.

Comment on Trump's alleged involvement in overthrowing the Constitution and the advice against such actions.

Trump's alleged theft of classified documents and the subsequent obstruction of justice.

The assertion that Donald Trump is not a victim but is responsible for his own legal troubles.

A call for the Republican Party to hold Trump accountable for his alleged crimes, which are not in dispute.

Scott Jennings' disagreement with George's points and the claim that there is no underlying crime in the case.

Senator Susan Collins' statement suggesting the prosecutor's intent to target Trump rather than uphold the law.

Jennings' comparison of the current situation to the Kavanaugh hearings and the unified anger within the Republican Party.

Concern that the case might drive additional enthusiasm for Trump among Republicans.

George's accusation of Scott Jennings lying about the law and the jury's charge to find intent to cover up a crime.

Discussion on the Federal Election Commission's inability to act due to its broken and paralyzed state.

The political impact of the case and the potential unification of the Republican Party behind Trump.

The suggestion that jailing Trump could have severe political consequences for the Republicans.

The possibility of swapping out Trump as a nominee before the Republican convention due to his conviction.

Transcripts

00:00

George. You write

00:01

here.

00:01

The New York Trump

00:02

case is kind of perfect.

00:03

Now, you wrote this

00:04

before this verdict dropped.

00:05

You said his other criminal cases

00:07

involve lies

00:08

about the 2016 election,

00:09

about the military secrets he stole.

00:11

But the alleged lies in the people v

00:12

Trump strike

00:13

at the core of his moral presence.

00:15

And Trump knows it.

00:17

what do you make of the verdict

00:19

that we saw here today?

00:21

and also David Fromm's comments,

00:25

considering the way

00:27

this sits in our nation's consciousness

00:31

and the way it stacks up

00:32

against some of the other things

00:33

that Donald Trump is accused of doing.

00:36

Yeah. Well, I actually agreed

00:38

with everything that David said.

00:39

And in terms of this verdict,

00:42

the only thing that really

00:44

I wasn't

00:44

I was surprised by the fact

00:45

that so many people were surprised

00:47

I was in that courtroom.

00:49

for a number of the days

00:51

I read the transcript,

00:52

I followed along very closely in

00:54

this case was never, ever close.

00:57

It was it there was really no defense.

00:59

The only defense was that Michael Cohen

01:01

lied on some other occasions.

01:03

But on the things that he testified

01:05

to about Donald Trump and Stormy

01:06

Daniels and Karen McDougal

01:08

and the catch and kill scheme

01:09

with with the,

01:10

with the

01:11

with the with the National Enquirer,

01:14

all that was corroborated

01:16

many, many times over by documents.

01:18

So I'm just surprised at

01:19

how many people were kind of unwilling

01:21

to accept this case.

01:23

that that said, I do

01:25

you know, I think that it is

01:27

this case really does

01:28

capture Donald Trump in a way.

01:31

It it's where he started.

01:33

He's been a criminal

01:34

his entire life,

01:35

and he cannot help himself.

01:38

I mean, he if you,

01:41

you go out there and you

01:42

see his son and him

01:43

all claiming that the victims of them

01:45

some mastermind scheme

01:47

by by President Biden.

01:48

I mean, it's just it's

01:50

just silly and ridiculous.

01:51

And Marco Rubio should be ashamed.

01:53

I mean,

01:54

if you don't want to be found guilty

01:56

of falsifying business records,

01:59

and as a felony,

02:01

you know, don't sleep with the porn star.

02:03

Don't lie about it.

02:04

Don't pay her off.

02:06

Don't cover up the payoff.

02:07

Don't cover off the pay off

02:09

in the middle of a presidential campaign.

02:11

And, where you're making a contribution.

02:14

And don't don't gross

02:16

the guy up for taxes who used as a

02:18

as the front man if you don't want.

02:20

If you don't want to be held liable

02:22

for rape

02:23

like Donald Trump has,

02:25

don't grab the woman's genitalia

02:27

if you don't want to be held liable

02:29

from defaming the woman that you raped.

02:31

Don't keep lying about what you did

02:34

and calling her a nutjob.

02:36

If you don't want to be indicted

02:39

for overthrowing the Constitution,

02:41

don't start a self kook.

02:43

If you don't want to be indicted

02:45

for classified stealing classified

02:47

documents and obstructing justice,

02:49

don't take the classified documents.

02:51

When the government asked for it back,

02:52

give them back.

02:54

If if you

02:55

if the FBI serves you

02:56

with a search warrant,

02:57

don't hide the documents

02:59

and and don't lie about it

03:01

and don't have your lawyers

03:02

lie about this.

03:02

Isn't that hard?

03:04

Donald Trump is not the victim here.

03:07

Donald Trump is

03:09

is does all of these things to himself.

03:12

And I agree with David.

03:14

I mean, once upon a time,

03:15

the Republican Party was the party,

03:18

not just an anti hippies,

03:20

but a personal responsibility

03:22

and of, of law and order.

03:24

What party?

03:25

Where is that

03:25

party here

03:26

that no one's willing to hold in?

03:28

The Republican Party

03:29

is willing to hold Donald Trump

03:31

to account for his crimes, crimes

03:33

that aren't really even in dispute.

03:35

And no one,

03:36

no one is willing to call him up and said

03:38

he's he's going to get the nomination.

03:40

That's just insane.

03:42

And it just shows

03:43

the degree of moral rot

03:44

we have

03:45

on the conservative side

03:47

of politics today.

03:48

Scott Jennings, I think this is for you.

03:50

Where is that party?

03:52

Well, I

03:53

disagree with a

03:54

number of things, George said. Of course.

03:55

I mean, he's talking about these crimes

03:58

that were committed that,

03:59

that, that, that I mean, he's

04:01

talking about the obvious crimes

04:02

that were supposedly committed.

04:03

But that's the core of what

04:05

a lot of decidedly non MAGA

04:06

Republicans are mad about

04:08

is that there is no underlying crime.

04:10

I looked at the statement

04:11

from Maine Senator

04:12

Susan Collins,

04:13

who I think encapsulated it perfectly.

04:15

She said this was a Partizan prosecutor

04:17

who promised to get Trump,

04:20

and that's what he did

04:20

not promise to go after the law,

04:22

but he promised pathetic

04:24

promise to go after Donald Trump.

04:26

And so the issue is here.

04:28

What is the crime?

04:29

He's never been indicted for

04:31

or convicted of the campaign

04:33

finance theory at the core of this case.

04:36

And so Republicans were wondering today,

04:39

you know,

04:40

what what what do you have to do

04:42

to to build a defense against something

04:44

you've never been convicted of

04:46

in the first place?

04:47

I'll tell you the mood in the party.

04:49

If you're looking for a generalized

04:51

attitude, is reminds me

04:53

a little bit about the Kavanaugh period.

04:56

You go back to the Brett

04:56

Kavanaugh hearings, 2018.

04:59

I remember that period being the MAGA

05:01

people were mad.

05:02

The non MAGA, the anti-Trump, the right.

05:05

Every wing of the party was vibrating,

05:08

angry about what

05:09

was being done to Kavanaugh.

05:10

I feel and sense

05:11

that the same thing is happening today,

05:13

which is why

05:14

I think you're probably going

05:15

to see this backfire

05:16

politically on the Democrats,

05:17

and they're going to regret it.

05:19

I mean, George, I will say,

05:20

I have heard

05:21

from some people

05:22

who really don't want to see Trump

05:23

get elected

05:24

in the Republican Party,

05:25

who are concerned that this is just

05:29

this particular case

05:30

is just going to drive,

05:31

additional enthusiasm

05:33

for the former president.

05:35

I'd be interested to respond to that.

05:36

And you got your face in your hands.

05:38

Well, you got to say this.

05:39

I have to say, I mean, look,

05:40

I mean, you know, Scott's lying.

05:42

And that's the problem

05:43

with the Republican Party.

05:44

It is continually addicted to love that.

05:47

Wait a minute.

05:47

What am I what am I what what am I lying?

05:49

You're lying. You're lying, Scott.

05:51

You're lying about the law.

05:53

You're lying about what

05:54

the jury was charged to find.

05:56

They don't have to find

05:57

an underlying crime.

05:58

They had to find the intent to cover up

06:01

an underlying crime.

06:02

And the underlying crime

06:03

was pretty obvious. What was the crime?

06:05

You ran for public office, Scott.

06:06

You. You ran for public office. Scott.

06:08

You know you can't take money

06:10

from somebody

06:11

and reimburse them to for as a

06:13

you know,

06:13

if it's a campaign,

06:14

never run that damn well and you're okay.

06:17

Fine. Well, you you're close enough.

06:19

You're involved in politics to know that.

06:20

Okay.

06:21

So that's the problem

06:22

with the Republican Party

06:23

is that they are suffused with lies.

06:25

I don't know why this network

06:26

is paying Scott to say this lies.

06:29

Whoa, whoa. Okay.

06:30

Let's talk. Please.

06:32

Let's not go there. No.

06:33

We should be proud of Scott

06:34

as our colleague.

06:35

And we're going to treat him

06:36

respectfully as such. Continue.

06:38

Well, you should hear here's my question.

06:40

If if it if it is

06:41

if it is an obvious crime,

06:43

why did the Department of Justice

06:45

and the Federal Election Commission

06:46

take a pass on it?

06:49

Well, the Federal Police

06:49

should have been prosecuted.

06:50

It should have been prosecuted.

06:52

On January 21st January 21st, 2021.

06:56

Let's look. That's what we all know.

06:58

This is the thing about Tommy Trump.

06:59

He's never Donald Trump,

07:00

never been Donald Trump has been let off.

07:03

He should have been indicted for it.

07:05

And the fact of the matter is, Donald,

07:07

he wasn't sure what he was.

07:09

Hold on. Please, David.

07:11

The Federal Election

07:12

Commission is a broken

07:13

and paralyzed institution.

07:15

it requires it requires a majority.

07:17

It's got equal numbers

07:18

of Republicans and Democrats.

07:19

It requires a majority to act.

07:20

And it's not acted on

07:21

anything for a decade because it has been

07:23

it is broken.

07:24

And one of the reasons

07:25

that things are ending up

07:26

in the criminal justice system

07:28

is because the internal political system

07:29

has been sabotaged by the people

07:31

that complain

07:32

that the criminal justice system is

07:33

the wrong, is the wrong remedy.

07:35

You know,

07:35

I want to pick up something

07:36

else, Scott said.

07:37

This is a

07:37

become an important Republican

07:39

talking point that Alvin Bragg vowed to,

07:42

punish Donald Trump.

07:43

That doesn't seem to be true.

07:44

People are looking to the record to say,

07:46

where is this?

07:47

Where is this

07:48

promise that you're talking about?

07:49

And I wonder, it's

07:50

maybe they've mistaken

07:51

Alvin Bright

07:51

for Letitia James,

07:52

the New York state

07:53

attorney general,

07:54

who did make that promise.

07:56

but Bragg actually

07:57

was the person

07:57

who declined

07:58

to bring a criminal action

08:00

based on the Civil frauds

08:02

that then won,

08:03

verdicts of a half $1 billion.

08:05

But he's been actually quite a cautious,

08:06

not as conscious

08:07

as Mayor and Merrick Garland,

08:09

but still quite cautious.

08:10

He was not

08:11

someone who was chomping at the bit

08:12

to get this president.

08:14

Scott.

08:17

I disagree,

08:17

I think it's obvious

08:18

that he wanted to get the president,

08:20

and I think it's obvious that he

08:22

he did it.

08:22

I mean, I,

08:23

I mean, he

08:23

he these Democrats in New York,

08:25

I mean, if you ask

08:26

the average Republican

08:27

have been desperate

08:27

to get Trump from the beginning,

08:29

and they finally did it.

08:30

And I you know, the I'm not a lawyer,

08:32

but the political impact of this

08:34

I am an expert on

08:34

and I'm telling you right now,

08:36

this has done more to unify

08:38

the Republican Party behind Trump

08:41

than anything else

08:42

you could have possibly done.

08:43

I've heard people on TV last night say,

08:45

now they got to throw him in jail.

08:46

We gotta throw him in jail.

08:47

My advice would be, go right ahead.

08:49

Ask for the maximum jail time.

08:51

Go, go right. Go right ahead.

08:53

Because I would love to see you.

08:56

If being a can deal

08:57

with the consequences of that Republican

08:59

being a convicted

08:59

felon, we're good for you.

09:00

Politically,

09:00

we would not have had to wait

09:01

for 230 years

09:03

of the life of this republic

09:04

for people to run for office

09:06

as convicted felons.

09:07

historically, everyone has agreed

09:09

that it's a bad thing to be a political.

09:10

He didn't sell it.

09:11

He didn't run for office

09:12

as a convicted felon.

09:13

He was convicted after he started running

09:15

and he was running for office.

09:17

He is now today, it's not too late

09:19

for the Republican convention

09:20

to swap him out

09:21

and find someone

09:22

who's not a convicted felon.

09:23

You know, it's

09:24

technically it is before the convention.

09:25

After the convention, we might

09:27

actually see something

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