Interstellar Expansion WITHOUT Faster Than Light Travel
Summary
TLDRThe video script discusses the concept of a generation ship, a theoretical spacecraft designed to support human life for multiple generations, enabling interstellar travel even without faster-than-light capabilities. It explores the challenges of such a mission, including propulsion systems, genetic diversity, life support, and the mental and social well-being of the crew. The script also touches on potential solutions like artificial gravity, efficient food and water production, and the use of virtual reality to combat isolation. The discussion highlights the importance of a stable social structure and the preservation of cultural knowledge across generations. Ultimately, it presents the idea that despite the risks and complexities, a generation ship could be within our reach, offering a new frontier for human exploration.
Takeaways
- đ The script discusses the concept of a generation ship, a spacecraft designed to support human life for multiple generations, as a potential solution for interstellar travel.
- đž The limitations of current propulsion technologies are highlighted, with the Parker Solar Probe's speed being insufficient for practical interstellar travel.
- âł The script explores two hypothetical scenarios for travel times: one with fusion propulsion reaching 3% the speed of light, and another with a much slower, 6,300-year journey.
- 𧏠Genetic diversity is a critical factor for a successful generation ship, with a minimum crew size of 100 proposed to maintain a healthy population over centuries.
- đ The need for artificial gravity is emphasized to maintain the health of the crew during the long journey, with a rotating ring habitat suggested as a possible design.
- đ± Food production is a significant challenge, with the requirement for a large surface area for agriculture, potentially supplemented by lab-grown meat or insects.
- đ§ Water is another critical resource, with the need for efficient recycling and potentially large reserves for a multi-millennial journey.
- đŹ The importance of breathable air and the development of advanced recycling systems to convert carbon dioxide back into oxygen is discussed.
- đ§ââïž Mental health is a major concern for long-term space missions, with the script suggesting the use of virtual reality to combat isolation and maintain a connection to Earth.
- đ€ The potential role of AI in providing mental health support, such as an AI therapist, is mentioned as a tool to help maintain crew morale and cooperation.
- đ The script touches on the importance of preserving cultural knowledge and ensuring the mission's purpose is passed down through generations on the ship.
Q & A
What is the main topic of the episode mentioned in the transcript?
-The main topic of the episode is the concept of a generation ship and the challenges of planning a mission to settle Proxima Centauri B using technology available within the next 30 years.
Why is the concept of a generation ship relevant to humanity's future in space exploration?
-The concept of a generation ship is relevant because it presents a potential solution for long-duration space travel, allowing humans to reach distant stars within their lifetimes, despite the vast distances involved.
What propulsion technologies are mentioned as potential candidates for a generation ship?
-The propulsion technologies mentioned include matter-antimatter engines, compact fusion drives, thermonuclear explosions, and the Parker Solar Probe's propulsion method using electrical power.
How does Einstein's special theory of relativity impact the feasibility of faster-than-light travel?
-Einstein's special theory of relativity suggests that faster-than-light travel is almost certainly impossible, which is a significant limitation for interstellar travel within a human lifetime.
What are the potential speeds that a spacecraft could reach according to the script?
-The script discusses spacecraft capable of reaching speeds of 80%, 90%, or even 99% the speed of light, as well as more realistic speeds of 3% and 10% the speed of light.
What is the closest known exoplanet to Earth, and why is it significant in the context of the script?
-The closest known exoplanet to Earth is Proxima Centauri B, and it is significant because the script discusses a hypothetical mission to settle this exoplanet using a generation ship.
What are the challenges associated with ensuring genetic diversity on a generation ship?
-Ensuring genetic diversity on a generation ship is crucial to maintain a healthy multigenerational crew and to populate a new planet. Challenges include avoiding genetic health issues over many generations and managing potential disasters that could reduce the population.
What is the minimum crew size suggested for a sustainable population on a generation ship?
-The minimum crew size suggested for a sustainable population on a generation ship is at least 100 individuals, which would eventually multiply to a population of 500.
How does the script address the issue of providing food for the crew on a generation ship?
-The script suggests using efficient hydroponic or aeroponic systems to grow nutrition-dense crops like sweet potatoes and considering alternative protein sources such as lab-grown meat or insects like mealworms.
What role does artificial gravity play in the health and well-being of the crew on a generation ship?
-Artificial gravity, created by spinning the ship's habitats, is necessary to mimic Earth's surface gravity and prevent negative health effects associated with long-term exposure to zero gravity or microgravity, such as bone density loss.
How does the script propose to maintain the mental health and cultural continuity of the crew on a generation ship?
-The script proposes using virtual reality to create immersive experiences of Earth environments, AI therapists to provide psychological support, and the development of a stable social structure that promotes crew happiness and mutual respect while maintaining the mission's objectives.
Outlines
đ The Quest for Interstellar Travel and Generation Ships
This paragraph introduces the concept of a generation ship as a potential solution for humanity's desire to explore the universe, despite the limitations imposed by the vast distances and current propulsion technologies. It discusses the possibility of traveling at a fraction of the speed of light and the implications of relativistic time dilation. The paragraph also presents the hypothetical scenario where NASA tasks PBS Space Time with planning a mission to settle Proxima Centauri B, the closest known exoplanet to Earth, within a tight timeframe of 30 years, necessitating a multi-generational space journey.
đ°ïž Propulsion Methods and the Challenges of Long-Term Space Travel
The second paragraph delves into the technical aspects of propulsion systems needed for such a long journey, comparing the Parker Solar Probe's technology with the more speculative but potentially faster nuclear fusion propulsion. It outlines the challenges of achieving the necessary speeds to reach Proxima-B in a reasonable timeframe and discusses the implications of traveling at different speeds on the size of the ship and the number of generations involved. The paragraph also references studies by French scientists Frédéric Marin and Camille Beluffi on the minimum number of humans required for genetic diversity and a sustainable population during the journey.
đ± Sustaining Life: Food, Water, and Air for Generation Ships
This paragraph addresses the critical needs for sustaining life on a generation ship, focusing on food production, water recycling, and breathable air. It discusses the space requirements for growing crops and raising livestock, the challenges of providing a balanced diet, and the necessity of efficient water and air recycling systems. The paragraph also explores the idea of using insects as a protein source and the potential for leveraging water as radiation shielding, highlighting the importance of creating a self-sustaining biosphere for the long-term health and survival of the crew.
đ§ââïž Mental Health and Social Dynamics in Space Travel
The fourth paragraph examines the mental health and social challenges that crew members would face on a generation ship, particularly the sense of isolation and the need for maintaining a connection to Earth. It suggests the use of virtual reality to provide comforting Earth-like environments and to maintain communication with loved ones as the time lag increases. The paragraph also introduces the concept of an AI therapist to assist with psychological support and the importance of establishing a culture and social structure that balances operational efficiency with crew happiness and individual freedoms.
đ„ 'Space: The Longest Goodbye' Documentary and the Human Aspect of Space Travel
The final paragraph shifts focus to the documentary 'Space: The Longest Goodbye,' which explores the psychological challenges astronauts would face during long-term space missions, such as a three-year mission to Mars. The documentary aims to bridge the gap between the aspirations of space travelers and the psychologists tasked with ensuring their mental stability. It is promoted as a compelling exploration of the balance between the dreams of space exploration and the harsh realities of living in space, available for viewing on YouTube and later exclusively on the PBS app.
Mindmap
Keywords
đĄGeneration Ship
đĄRelativistic Time Dilation
đĄMatter-Antimatter Engines
đĄCompact Fusion Drives
đĄProxima Centauri B
đĄGenetic Diversity
đĄArtificial Gravity
đĄWater Recycling
đĄCryogenics
đĄAI Therapist
đĄCultural Preservation
Highlights
Introduction of the documentary 'Space: The Longest Goodbye' available on the PBS App and YouTube.
Discussion of the limitations of our generation's ability to explore space due to the vastness of the universe.
Proposal of a generation ship as a potential solution for interstellar travel.
Explanation of why faster-than-light travel is considered impossible based on Einstein's theory of relativity.
The concept of relativistic time dilation and its implications for interstellar travel at speeds close to light.
Challenges of developing propulsion methods like matter-antimatter engines for high-speed space travel.
Hypothetical scenario of an existential threat prompting a mission to settle Proxima Centauri B.
Constraints of technology and time in planning a realistic interstellar mission within 30 years.
The necessity for a generation ship to support multiple generations of humans on a long-duration space journey.
Consideration of propulsion systems like Parker Solar Probe and nuclear fusion for the generation ship.
Estimation of travel times to Proxima-B based on different propulsion speeds.
Importance of genetic diversity and the minimum crew size for a sustainable population on a generation ship.
Calculations by Marin and Beluffi on the number of humans needed for a healthy multigenerational crew.
Challenges of providing sufficient living space, artificial gravity, and life support for the crew.
Innovative ideas for food production, such as hydroponics, aeroponics, and insect farming on the ship.
The critical need for water recycling and the potential use of water as radiation shielding.
Discussion on air recycling and the use of plants for CO2 conversion in a closed-loop system.
Addressing mental health challenges of isolation through the use of virtual reality and AI therapy.
Ensuring the continuity of mission objectives and cultural preservation across generations.
Speculation on the social structure and culture needed for a stable and happy ship-bound society.
Conclusion on the possibility and challenges of building a generation ship to reach Proxima B.
Recommendation to watch the feature-length documentary 'Space: The Longest Goodbye' for further insights.
Transcripts
Before we get started I wanted to let you know, Â
todayâs episode is brought to you by
Space:  The Longest Goodbye. Available now on the PBS App and YouTube. So check out the link below.
We are the middle children of history. Born too late to explore Earth, and born too early Â
to explore the universe â- to partially quote someone on the internet whose wisdom is only Â
matched by their anonymity. In the far future we may have advanced propulsion technologies Â
like matter-antimatter engines and compact fusion drives that allow humans to travel Â
to other stars on timescales shorter than their own lives. But what if those technologies never Â
materialize? Are we imprisoned by the vastness of spaceâdoomed to remain in the solar system Â
of our origin? Perhaps not. A possible path to a contemporary cosmic dream may just be to build a Â
ship which can support human life for several generations; a so-called generation ship.
Faster than light travel is almost certainly impossibleâso says Einsteinâs special theory Â
of relativityâand we rarely win when we bet against Einstein. That sounds like bad news Â
for the galactic future of humanity given that the Milky Way is 100,000 lightyears across, Â
and there are relatively few stars within what most would consider to be a reasonable commute. Â
But that doesnât mean we canât reach for the stars. If we can build spacecraft capable of Â
reaching 80, 90, even 99% the speed of light then relativistic time dilation would slow the Â
clock of the spacecraft relative to Earthâs. At these speeds a single crew could reach an Â
interstellar destination up to 100s of light years away within their own lifetimes. But Â
such speeds would require some pretty out-there propulsion methods like matter-antimatter engines, Â
compact fusion reactors, or even black hole drives. And even if we eventually Â
do build such devices, there are a whole range of dangers that uniquely arise when Â
traveling through the cosmos at such high speeds, as weâve discussed previously.
So, what if it turns out we have to travel the slow road? What if it proves impossible to send Â
humans any faster than a tiny fraction of the speed of light? Or what if we decide we Â
really really need to leave Earth ASAP using technology that we at least understand today.
OK, Hereâs the scenario: Something is coming. It could be a comet impact or catastrophic climate Â
collapse or the Tri-Solarian fleet. Whatever it is, thereâs enough of an existential threat Â
that we decide to insure the future of our species by trying to settle another world. Â
Quite naturally, NASA tasks PBS Space Time with planning a mission to settle Â
Proxima Centauri B in the Alpha-Centauri system. This is the closest known exoplanet to Earth at a Â
mere 4.2 light years away. To keep things simple, letâs pretend that we discovered that Proxima-B Â
is already habitable so all we need to do is get some people there in good condition.
We only have a few decades to make this happen, so ultra-advanced propulsion is out of the question. Â
We launch whatever we can throw together in around 30 years. The fastest ship we could conceivably Â
hope to build might reach speeds of 10% that of light. Thatâs a 42 year journeyâlaunch a crew in Â
their 20s and theyâll arrive at retirement age. More likely our craft will travel much slower, Â
so that no crew that starts the journey will live to see its end. Assuming that cryogenics wonât Â
be 100% reliable within decadesâwhich is pretty fairâit sounds like we need to plan for a mission Â
in which multiple generations of humans are born, live, and die en route, and that landfall Â
is made by descendents of the launch crew. It sounds like we need to plan a generation ship.
There are lots of decisions to make in how we do this, but remember our constraint: Â
it has to be something we can plausibly launch in 30 years. Weâre going to need Â
to choose a propulsion system, a crew size and composition, life support systems, and Â
finally we need to ensure the mental, social and cultural wellbeing and stability of this group.
Starting with the propulsion method; this determines the speed we can travel, the potential Â
size of the ship, and so the size and number of generations of the population we need to sustain.
The fastest vehicle ever built by humans is the Parker Solar Probe, which accelerates by Â
blasting a propellantâhydrazine in this caseâusing electrical power. Although it Â
was really more the gravitational assists that enabled the Parker to reach 700,000 kilometers Â
per hour. If we could scale up this tech to something large enough to carry lots of humans then Â
at this speed we could get our crew to Proxima-B in ⊠6,300 years. Thatâs like 200 generations, Â
and roughly the length of recorded human history. Itâs difficult to imagine that Â
nothing would go wrong in that much time. But weâre also pretty sure we can get a ship to this speed, Â
so we should see if this timescale is at least feasible. Also, this is the speed Â
assumption made by French scientists FrĂ©dĂ©ric Marin and Camille Beluffi in a series of Â
studies, and weâll be coming back to their conclusions regarding a trip of this length.
Weâll also consider a much faster craftâone propelled by nuclear Â
fusionâsmashing light elements together to form heavier elements plus lots of energy, Â
just like the Sun does. We havenât yet managed to build a commercially viable fusion reactor, Â
let alone the sort of compact reactor weâd need for a spacecraft. But there IS a fusion Â
technology that weâve thoroughly masteredâand thatâs the thermonuclear explosion. There are Â
various concepts for spacecraft that accelerate under a series of fusion Â
pulsesâaka explosionsârather than sustained fusion reactions. These vary in sophistication Â
from the more advanced internal confinement engine of Project Daedalus to more achievable, Â
if scarier proposals where you literally detonate thermonuclear explosions behind the craft, Â
like in Project Orion or the Enzmann starship, or into a forward sail like in the Medusa design.
Top speeds for some of these have been estimated at 30% lightspeed, but thatâs highly optimistic. Â
A little under 10% is more realistic for a mature version of this technology. For us, Â
with our limited timeline, weâre going to assume we can get to 3% lightspeed. Thatâs around 50 Â
times faster than our conventional drive, so gets us to Proxima-B in a mere 140 yearsâjust Â
four or five generations. So, today weâre going to plan towards these two travel timesâ140 years Â
if fusion pans out and 6300 years if not. Weâll have teams working on both, and you can think of Â
these as representing the extreme boundaries of what we can achieve in the little time we have.
The next decision will influence all of the choices that follow. How many people are we Â
sending? This determines the size of the ship or ships and the resources we need to bring. Â
Perhaps the most important factor determining population size on a generation ship is the Â
issue of genetic diversity. There are two aspects to this: how many people are needed to ensure a Â
healthy multigenerational crew during the journey, and how many are needed to healthily populate a new planet.
A 6300 year journey means 200 generations give or take. If the genetic diversity of Â
the starting population isnât sufficient there will be genetic health issues en route. Marin and Â
Beluffi explore this question in a 2018 paper. They use Monte Carlo simulations to calculate Â
the minimum number of humans that would be needed to avoid many of the potential genetic pitfalls, Â
also accounting for various forms of misfortune such as a random Â
disaster eliminating a third of the population, different infertility rates, and even an overall Â
âchaotic factorâ intrinsic to any human exploration. From all of this they came Â
up with the minimum numbers needed to achieve a sustainable population during Â
the journey. They conclude that we need to launch with a crew of at least 100, who will Â
multiply to a population of 500âand thatâs the level to support for most of the journey.
How big a ship does it take to comfortably carry 500? Well, Â
SpaceXâs Starship is supposed to be able to carry 100. So, Â
the equivalent of 5 of those at least? However that doesnât include the space needed for Â
systems to support 500 lives long term. For that weâre definitely going to need a bigger boat.
Missions around the solar system donât need to be luxurious. But centuries or Â
millenia long trips to Proxima-B will need some home comforts. Like gravity.
Living in zero gravity or microgravity has clear negative effects on health, Â
with the most well documented being on bone density. To avoid our travelers reaching Â
Proxima-B as Wall-E-esque gelatinous blobs, we need artificial gravity.
Weâve discussed previously how this could be done. Thereâs only one way, and fortunately Â
itâs not that complicated. The shipâs habitats need to be spun in a circle to Â
give 1-g of centrifugal acceleration, perfectly mimicking Earthâs surface Â
gravity. There are lots of designs for centrifugal artificial gravity, Â
but the simplest might be a rotating ring habitat. A 100m radius ring would need to rotate 3 times Â
per minute to replicate Earth gravity. That seems not completely crazy, so letâs move on.
The next step is to feed our crew Another study led by the French team finds that weâd need 0.45 Â
km^2 for an omnivorous and balanced diet. Our 5 Starships have a surface area of about 1% Â
of that. So we either send 500 starships just to feed our crew, or find a way to Â
produce food more efficiently. That 0.45 km^2 is dominated by the space for raising livestock, Â
so burger night is the first thing weâll have to cut. Itâs possible to get the required area Â
down 0.015 km^2 if we grow nutrition-dense crops like sweet potatoes using our best hydroponic or Â
aeroponic systems. Thatâs just 30 starships worth of farm, so weâre back in the realm of the sane.
The crew is also going to need protein. Now maybe we can get the quantity and variety Â
from an efficient veggie source, especially with a little genetic tinkering. But if not Â
there are plausible meat options. Now lab-grown meat technology is a bit speculative at the moment, Â
but thereâs a very well established carnivorous option suited to the less squeamish interstellar Â
traveler. Iâm talking about insects. For example, mealworms can be farmed at high densities and Â
provide extreme protein richness. One to a few Starships worth of mealworm might do the trick.
Overall, weâre going to need something like 6 to 10 times our crewâs living Â
space for food production. And thatâs for a pretty boring and slightly crawly diet. Â
But maybe there are some gourmet yam and grub recipes just waiting to be discovered.
A bigger challenge than food is the water, which our travelers need in order to grow that food, Â
and also in order to just live. An adult human needs around 2 liters of water per day, Â
give or take. 500 humans need 1000 liters per dayâthatâs a cubic meter weighing a Â
metric ton. Our 140 year journey may be able to haul the required 50,000 tons of water âjust Â
barelyâbut forget about it for our 6300 year slog. In either case weâre going to want very Â
good water recycling. Just recently, the ISS reached a new milestone of 98% water recycling Â
efficiency. Now if thatâs as good as we get for our âfastâ mission we need a more reasonable 500 ton Â
supply of reserve waterâperhaps one Starship worth of water storage in terms of volume.
For our 6-millenia-slog we need 50 times that. So our generation ship just doubled in size just to Â
haul enough water. And remember that we havenât even considered water used and lost growing food. Â
Maybe add as much water again for 100 starships in water. In order for the long trip to be plausible, Â
we may need to focus on improving our water recyclingâget it to at least 99.5% efficiency, Â
which brings the reserve storage requirement down a factor of four to a similar scale as our farm requirement.
There is perhaps one upside to needing to store all this water, Â
and thatâs that water can double as radiation shielding. About one meter depth of water Â
surrounding habitats is enough to stop most dangerous space radiation. This is Â
a solution thatâs being considered for trips to Mars, but would work well for Â
a non-relativistic interstellar trip. By the way, this is an upside of traveling relatively Â
slowlyârelatively minimal shielding is sufficient and bumping into a single dust grain doesnât kill us.
The last ingredient to add to our ship's biosphere is breathable air. Just as with water, recycling Â
is critical here. The ISS currently uses a system designed by the European Space Agency called the Â
Advanced Closed Loop System, which recycles carbon dioxide back into breathable oxygen, Â
with around 50% efficiency. Thatâs not nearly enough for a generation Â
ship because huge supplies of fresh oxygen would be needed to replenish the losses. Instead, Â
weâd probably need to rely heavily on our natural CO2 recyclersâthe plants we are growing for Â
food. There have been various efforts to build self-contained biospheres capable of sustaining Â
a breathable atmosphere. Maybe the most famous is the Biosphere 2 project, which did OK, all things Â
considered. Yes they had to install artificial CO2 scrubbers to help the plants, but the Â
project at least demonstrated that a combination of natural and artificial systems could maintain Â
a breathable atmosphere for some time. We have a few decades to perfect this, so thereâs a good Â
chance we can come up with an air recycling system that will work over long timescales.
So maybe we can keep our crew alive and physically healthy for centuries, Â
or even millenia. But will they be happy? And will they stay sane? The Â
sense of isolation on such a long voyage will likely be a major challenge for Â
maintaining the mental health of the crew. We need them to feel connected to Earth, Â
to be part of something grander than their janky little spacecraft on its lonely journey.
The first generation in particular will want to stay connected to their loved ones. But Â
the two-way light travel time between the ship and the Earth will increase over the journey, Â
ultimately reaching a lag of nearly 8.5 years near the end
NASA has done some tests to mitigate the dread that could follow from such separation Â
from our home world. One solution could be the use of virtual reality. Crew members could find Â
solace in digital 3D models of comforting and beautiful Earth environments, and in the case Â
of generation one, their homes and loved ones. As the time lag increased, messages from friends Â
and family and well-wishers could be recorded on Earth, beamed to the ship, and played back in VR.
On our cramped and sterile spaceship, it may be important to grant our travelers Â
certain experiences that we on Earth take for granted. By improving the immersion and Â
interactivity of our VR technology we may be able to provide convincing visual experiences Â
of mountains and sunsets, and auditory and even tactile experiences of wind and rain, Â
and the olfactory joys of a forest or freshly cut grass. We canât build a StarTrek holodeck, Â
but we can certainly push VR a lot further in the time we have before launch.
Of course, the humans on the ship will still be humans. Arguments will happen, Â
relationships will experience strain, and sensitivity and frustration levels may be Â
heightened due to the isolation and confined spaces. And yet a high level of synergy and Â
teamwork is needed for this mission to succeed. Sometimes a stressed human needs another human.
But maybe, when tensions rise and trust wanes, it would be helpful to have a trusted third Â
party to give advice, confide in, and to overall receive encouragement from. One that remembers Â
and learns from the problems of past generations. Maybe we need Â
an AI therapist. NASA has already piloted such a tool, namely Cimon 2.0 the therapy AI robot. Â
Preliminary testing seems promising and it is generally agreed upon that some tool or Â
AI of this form will be incredibly important for the success of a long term space mission.
Our plan so far will hopefully get our crew to Proxima-B in good health, genetically, Â
physically, and mentally. But how do we make sure that the mission of the launch Â
crew is still the mission of the landing crew? How do we ensure that the knowledge Â
and skills needed to complete the mission are passed across generations? Or that we Â
preserve the wealth of cultural knowledge and tradition of these once-Earthlings?
This is where things get more speculative as there isnât much research to go on. We just know that Â
this stuff is going to be very important and probably very tricky. The ship-bound Â
society is going to need a culture and social structure that balances different needs. Â
That structure needs to enable efficient operation of the missionâwhich may mean Â
clear hierarchies in each operational area. But the culture also needs to promote crew Â
happinessâotherwise we have a revolution in a generation or two. So, an efficient Â
and stable social structure that somehow also promotes mutual respect, individual freedoms, Â
and all the various values that we want this new branch of humanity to carry forward.
Overall, it seems at least possible to build a generation ship that can reach Proxima B, Â
to launch in the not-to-distant future. There are so many things that we know could go wrongâand Â
no doubt many more unknown fail points. And the longer the mission, the more risk of unexpected Â
disaster, so maybe we should really focus on getting fusion on track. But itâs encouraging Â
to think that this sort of sci-fi endeavor is at least within our grasp if existential Â
need or our adventurous spirit compels us. We are the middle children of history, Â
but perhaps weâre ready to grow up. Perhaps soon our generation ships will slip the bonds Â
of gravity and distance to explore the new frontier of interstellar spacetime.
Hey Everyone. If you enjoyed todayâs episode then I highly recommend you check out the new Â
feature length documentary âSpace: The Longest Goodbye.â The film explores the realities that Â
NASAâs goal to send astronauts to Mars would require a three-year absence from Earth, Â
which would be twice as long as the current record for consecutive time in space. Bridging the gap Â
between the astronauts who dream of space travel and the psychologists whose job is Â
to keep astronauts mentally stable in outer space, the documentary vividly displays how Â
those who dream of space travel must balance their dream of reaching new frontiers and the Â
harsh psychological realities of space. The film is now available on YouTube so Â
check out the link below. After June 4th, it will be available exclusively on the PBS app.
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