Bill Schnee: Engineering Steely Dan's Aja
Summary
TLDRIn this engaging interview, sound engineer Bill Schne shares his experiences working with music legends such as Ringo Starr and the band Steely Dan. He discusses the evolution of recording studios, the art of capturing perfect sounds, and his philosophy on using minimal equipment for maximum results. Schne's anecdotes offer a behind-the-scenes look at the creation of some of the most iconic music of our time.
Takeaways
- 🎶 Bill Schnee, a renowned figure in the music industry, shares his experiences working with significant artists including Ringo Starr and Steely Dan in his book 'Chairman at the Board'.
- 🎤 Schnee's career began in high school when he moved to Los Angeles and started playing keyboard in a band, leading to his first recording studio experience at Capitol Records in 1964.
- 🎧 The evolution of recording studios, such as Capitol Records, is discussed, highlighting the changes in equipment and room acoustics over the years.
- 🎷 Bill Schnee's 'Aha moment' in his career was when he realized the emotional impact of recording techniques while working with Richie Poler, which set the course for his future in the industry.
- 🎹 Schnee's approach to recording drums, known as the 'Bill Schnee drum sound', involved miking all drums and focusing on capturing a full, impactful sound without excessive EQ.
- 🎶 The Phil Spector 'wall of sound' technique is explained, characterized by large rhythm sections and a full, immersive sound in the 60s.
- 🎵 Schnee's work with Ringo Starr's album 'Photograph' is highlighted, where he utilized the talents of George Harrison and Richard Perry to enhance the recording.
- 🎶 The importance of headphone mixes for musicians was emphasized by Schnee, sharing his early struggles and the lessons he learned that influenced his later engineering practices.
- 🎤 The transition from four-track to eight-track recording was a significant shift, changing how drums and other instruments were recorded and mixed.
- 🎚️ The use of compression in recording, especially on drums, evolved over time and became a defining characteristic of different music eras and styles.
Q & A
What was Bill Schnee's first experience in a recording studio like?
-Bill Schnee's first experience in a recording studio was when he was around 16 or 17 years old. He was scared and had difficulty singing with headphones, which was a new experience for him. This led to his realization about the importance of headphone mix and balance for musicians.
How did Bill Schnee get his start in the audio industry?
-Bill Schnee got his start in the audio industry after his family moved to Los Angeles for his senior year of high school. He joined a band and they recorded a demo at a small studio. A parent of one of the band members knew someone in the music business, Gary Usher, who liked their demo and got them a production deal with Decca Records.
What was the significance of Richie Poler in Bill Schnee's career?
-Richie Poler was a significant figure in Bill Schnee's career as he was the one who recognized Schnee's potential and gave him the opportunity to work in his studio. Poler's studio was known for being one of the hottest rock studios in Los Angeles, and Schnee's work there marked a major step in his career as a recording engineer.
What was the 'Aha moment' for Bill Schnee in his career?
-Bill Schnee's 'Aha moment' was when he was working with Richie Poler and heard a playback of a recording that had an extra quality to it. He realized that it was something special that Poler was doing in the recording process, which inspired him to ask Poler to teach him how to do it. This moment set the course for the rest of his life in the audio industry.
How did the transition from four-track to eight-track recording change the process?
-The transition from four-track to eight-track recording was a significant change as it allowed for more separation and complexity in the recording process. It meant that each instrument or group of instruments could be recorded on separate tracks, allowing for greater control and flexibility during mixing. This change required a new way of thinking about arrangement and overdubbing.
What was the typical setup for recording drums in the 1960s?
-In the 1960s, the typical setup for recording drums would include an overhead microphone, a snare microphone, a kick drum microphone, and sometimes additional mics for toms, depending on the desired sound. The setup was often focused on capturing a mono sound rather than a stereo image, with the aim of achieving a good balance across all the drums.
How did Bill Schnee approach the use of compression in his work?
-Bill Schnee approached the use of compression with a minimalistic philosophy. He believed in using compression minimally for leveling purposes rather than for shaping the sound significantly. This approach was influenced by his early experiences and his preference for capturing the natural sound of the instruments.
What was the significance of the Phil Spector 'wall of sound' in the recording of 'Photograph'?
-The Phil Spector 'wall of sound' was significant in the recording of 'Photograph' as it involved creating a dense, immersive sound by using multiple instruments and voices to create a rich sonic texture. This approach was adapted for the song to give it a fuller, more dynamic sound compared to the original, more mournful version.
What was the role of isolation booths in the recording process?
-Isolation booths played a crucial role in the recording process by allowing for the separation of individual instruments and voices. This separation helped to prevent sound leakage between different microphones and instruments, enabling a cleaner, more controlled mix.
How did the introduction of multi-track recording change the dynamics of recording sessions?
-The introduction of multi-track recording changed the dynamics of recording sessions by allowing for greater control and flexibility. It enabled musicians to record their parts separately, which could then be mixed together to create a final track. This approach reduced the need for everyone to play together at the same time and allowed for more intricate arrangements and overdubbing.
Outlines
🎤 Introduction and Background
The paragraph introduces Bill Schnee, a guest on the show, who is a renowned figure in the music industry with a book titled 'Chairman at the Board'. The host expresses admiration for Bill's work and mentions an interesting pattern of interviewing individuals associated with the song 'Asia'. Bill's journey in the music industry began in Los Angeles during his senior year of high school, where he joined a band and later got involved in recording sessions. His first experience in a recording studio was at Capitol Records in 1964, which marked the beginning of his illustrious career.
🎧 Evolution of Recording Studios
Bill Schnee discusses the evolution of recording studios over the years, particularly Capitol Records, which underwent significant changes from the late 80s to the 90s. He talks about the technical advancements and the impact on the sound quality. Bill shares his experiences working in different studios, including his time at Richie Poler's studio, where he learned valuable lessons about recording and production. He also touches on the importance of headphone mixes for musicians during recording sessions.
🎼 Aha Moment and Studio Experiences
Bill shares his 'Aha' moment in the recording studio, which was a pivotal point in his career. He describes the experience of working with Richie Poler and how it shaped his understanding of recording techniques. Bill also talks about his move to Hollywood and his early days of working in a small studio, which eventually led to him engineering in some of the best studios in Los Angeles.
🎹 Learning the Craft and Studio Stories
In this paragraph, Bill delves into his experiences learning the craft of recording and mixing. He talks about the importance of experience and learning from the masters. Bill shares anecdotes about working with different artists and producers, including his time at Sunset Sound and his work with Ringo Starr on his 1973 album. He also discusses the influence of Phil Spector's 'wall of sound' and how it was adapted for the song 'Photograph'.
🎤 Drum Sound and Recording Techniques
Bill Schnee talks about his approach to recording drums, which became known as the 'Bill Schnee drum sound'. He discusses the evolution of his technique, influenced by British records and his desire for a more full-range sound. Bill shares his experiences with different microphones and the challenges of capturing the right drum sound. He also talks about his work with Steely Dan, including the unique approach to recording and the band's professional approach to making music.
🎧 Studio Design and Sound Quality
Bill discusses the importance of studio design and sound quality in recording. He talks about his dissatisfaction with the SSL consoles and the impact of automation systems on the mixing process. Bill shares his philosophy on obtaining the purest sound and his preference for simple, well-implemented audio equipment. He also mentions his experiences with different types of microphones and preamps, emphasizing the importance of getting a colorless sound that can be shaped later in the mix.
🎼 Reflections on a Legendary Career
In the final paragraph, Bill reflects on his legendary career in the music industry. He talks about the unique qualities of Steely Dan's music and the band's songwriting style. Bill also discusses the evolution of recording techniques, the importance of great musicianship, and the shift in the role of musicians from the 60s to the 80s. He shares his thoughts on the best microphones and equipment for recording, emphasizing his preference for tube equipment and the pursuit of a pure, uncolored sound.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Audio Engineering
💡Recording Studios
💡Music Production
💡Drums
💡Microphones
💡Mixing
💡Headphones
💡SSL Consoles
💡Studio Design
💡Musical Arrangements
💡Record Deals
Highlights
Bill Schnee's experience in the recording studio began in 1964 with his first band, where he played keyboard and contributed to songwriting.
Schnee's first encounter with professional recording was at Capitol Records, where he faced challenges adjusting to using headphones for the first time.
Schnee shares his 'aha moment' in the studio, realizing the impact of recording techniques and arrangements after hearing his band's playback for the first time.
Schnee discusses the evolution of recording studios, such as Capitol Records, which underwent significant changes in the late 80s and early 90s, including rebuilding their main studio room.
The importance of headphone mixes in recording is emphasized by Schnee, who shares his early struggles and the lessons he learned that influenced his later work with other engineers.
Schnee's career took a pivotal turn when he began working at a small studio in Hollywood, learning from other engineers and eventually moving to a larger, more renowned studio.
Schnee's work with Richie Poler's studio led to his first experience recording major artists like Three Dog Night, which was a significant step in his engineering career.
The transition from four-track recording to eight-track recording is discussed, highlighting the changes in how music was produced and the new challenges it presented.
Schnee reflects on the influence of Phil Spector's 'wall of sound' and how it inspired the production techniques used on Ringo Starr's hit record, which Schnee worked on.
The importance of experience in understanding how much high-end is needed during the recording process is emphasized, as there is no way to undo changes like in modern digital recording.
Schnee shares his admiration for the Beatles and their innovative use of compression, especially in songs like 'Tomorrow Never Knows'.
The transition from SSL consoles to modern mixing platforms like Pro Tools is discussed, with Schnee sharing his initial reluctance and eventual adaptation to new technology.
Schnee's approach to recording drums, including his unique 'Bill Schnee drum sound,' is discussed, highlighting his preference for miking all drums and avoiding excessive EQ.
The impact of multi-track recording on the music industry and the shift from capturing ensemble performances to focusing on individual instrument isolation is discussed.
Schnee shares his experiences working with Steely Dan, emphasizing the professional and efficient nature of their recording sessions.
The story behind the recording of the hit song 'You Make Me Feel Like Dancing' by Leo Sayer, which was recorded on the same day as an Asia session, is shared by Schnee.
Transcripts
hey everybody my guest today is Bill
schne now normally I do an intro about
them but I'm actually going to talk to
Bill he has a book called chairman at
the board that's right here and I'm a
huge fan of his and I kind of had this
recurring thing where anyone that was
associated with the song Asia now he
worked on the entire Cel danan Asia
record but anybody that played on the on
Asia I have to or that was in the studio
at the time I have to interview and so
this is going to be a part of this but
I'm going to ask Bill questions about
this but his book he talks about this
and many of the other recording sessions
that he's been on including this Ringo
Star record that's has all Ringo's
biggest hits on it and is a record that
I go back and listen to all the time
Bill welcome first of all great to be
here with you let's start with some
specific things okay let's talk about
your background you have your book out
where you talk about these things but
you're 70 six almost seven you're born
in 47 right correct so when did you
first get interested in the audio part
of music and the when's the first time
you walked into a recording studio let's
start there okay my parents moved to Los
Angeles for my senior year of high
school and I met some guys that were
starting a band and keyboard was my main
instrument and I I I said what if what
do you think about an organ in there and
they said sure let's try it so we did it
and uh in instead of buying the Vox
Continental back in 1964 which would
have made more sense uh my mom had the
the Hammond M self-contained which she
allowed me to cut saw it off so that I
could take the top and put it in my
dad's trunks instead of buying a B3 and
having to have a van we started writing
songs that we thought were pretty good
we went to a little demo Studio little
cheap Studio out where we lived and put
a several down and uh one of the parents
of of the band knew someone who knew
someone that was in the music business
and we uh sent the tape off to that
person that person was Gary Usher who
was good friends uh lived near the beach
boy Wilson family and actually wanted to
be a beach boy um and even though he
didn't make it he did write two of
Brian's big hits in my room in
409 and um
he thought we were pretty good so he uh
he just made a deal for with Deca
records a production deal and he signed
us to a contract so the F the first time
I went in a real Studio would be then
Capital Records in uh late
1964 okay so Capital Records in
1964 how did it change really over the
years is there some of the same gear
everything changed they they rebuilt I
can't remember when late late 80s I
think around '90s they redid their their
big room their Studio A was a gorgeous
sounding room uh but it had a control
room you know that could not handle even
a multirack tape recorder it was so
small so they rebuilt everything there
and redid the room didn't necessarily
make it better sounding but it made it
more versatile whatever and they also
broke the wall between uh the two
Studios with uh and they did that really
right so you you had complete isolation
from the two Studios if you needed it or
you could open it up which I had done
many times and put like strings and
flutes in B and the Rhythm Section with
horns in a anyway uh Studio B they
didn't change as much it has a littleit
but they're they're both basically quite
different than they were then I recorded
in studio a one time probably 2005 and
with an orchestra I don't have any
pictures from it I remember that the
control room I may be totally off it was
kind of an odd shape yeah the new
control room is little bit odd sh kind
of an odd shape right but the tracking
room is beautiful there that's the first
time you went in what did you think when
you go into a recording studio the first
time well I'm 16 years old so I'm or 17
by then I guess I'm I'm scared to death
that's what I thought I'm petrified you
know and and my first experience you
know with headphones and you know
because you know a band we all played
heard each other acoustically now we
have these headphones and uh for vocals
they set us up so that we did play
acoustically and he each other but I I
could not sing with those headphones I
mean it was a nightmare so that later in
life when I started uh when I had my own
studio and I'm training second Engineers
uh they they were they were told very
much so about watching that uh headphone
mix and explain to them because you know
you can't play what you can't hear you
know you have to hear the other
musicians and it has to be a good
balance and on and on and on I I want to
come back eventually to headphone mixes
because this is I've never actually
talked about that with any of the
engineers that I've ever interviewed but
it's incredibly important thing go but
what kind of headphones would they use
back then I don't I couldn't tell you
okay but they there were nothing even
even for the time you know Studio
headphones have always been uh a they're
not like the best headphones you can buy
because they can't take the kind of
level or whatever that you know is
required for the musicians so but I
don't remember anything about them just
remember hating them uh but that was but
that was the the first time uh that I
was in a studio and Gary Usher brought
in a guitar player to augment the band
our our guitar player was not maybe the
greatest and he he had figured that out
so he brought in this guy Richie poder
you know who that is ah
Richie Richie was a phenomenal musician
uh he just passed away last year he was
a phenomenal musician turns out he was
also as I later learned a phenomenal
engineer and producer and so when when
when we got dropped because we didn't
have a hit um we uh I went over to his
studio and told him the sad story and he
said oh you guys were great I can get
you a record deal go see this guy Mike
cerb he's going to go places and he had
been working with Mike cerb on these
Beach Blanket Bingo movies these that
were going on so I went to Mike Curb and
he signed us to another singles deal and
uh we went into Richie's studio and his
Studio was kind of funky compared to
Capital way also uh we did I did one or
I'm a huge I was and still am a huge
beach boy fan and um we when we got done
there was one song that needed an organ
solo and he Gary took us to Western
Studio 3 which is where Brian lived and
did and talk several times in my my life
my career where I've been nervous as
hell here I'm in that Studio on the
organ that had been used on some of
their records and I'm freaking out but
but anyway going from Western and
capital to the best Studios both then
and now if Capital were
reopen um you know it's closed right now
yeah yeah yeah yeah so um I but we went
into poder studio and he spent he spent
a lot more time on the arrangement with
us than Gary Usher had done but when he
got it where he thought it was good he
had us put down a take and I came into
the control room room and I remember
this like it was yesterday uh and he hit
play and I looked up at the 604s and
utility cabinets as the sound was coming
out and I felt something emotionally
that I had never felt in those other
Studios there was something extra to the
band and I knew it had to be what he was
doing in the recording so that's what
I've called my aha moment so much so
that when it was done I turned to him
and pointed at all the equipment and
said can you teach me how to do this and
he said no I'm teaching this guy Cooper
go on out and do another take but that
was the moment when the basically set
the rest of my life In Motion how did
you get into working at Studios then
well my parents lived outside of Los
Angeles and uh funny enough uh a studio
opened up in the town where we lived it
wasn't much of a studio it was it was
just a two track machine egg cartons on
the wall uh he had two ensor mics okay
uh and uh I you know like a lot of
people uh maybe before me but certainly
after me uh if you let me uh clean the
bathrooms and whatever you need done if
you'll teach me how to do this the
fortunate part is it was only stereo so
everything we did was live you had to
mix it live unfortunately W very many
none very many good artists you know and
musicians but uh it got me into doing it
doing it live and um within six months
the owner had me doing all the sessions
because I was better than he was which
might not be saying much but and then uh
about 6 months eight months after that
he comes in one day and says we're
moving to Hollywood and I said what are
you talking about he said I found an
empty studio for rent and we're moving
to Hollywood I said I'm not ready to go
to Hollywood Oh no you're ready you're
ready and to show you what this guy was
like um on the console he had gotten
those old engraved plaques you know
several layers where they cut through
the first layer and it was he had me
join AES and he put Bill schne AES in on
the producers thing to and so we're
moving to Hollywood and I had to move
the I I scraped that off and threw it
away before we before we got to
Hollywood but we moved everything to
Hollywood
and um and it was there that uh Richie
polers had an engineer that worked for
him uh and I would go visit Richie
wouldn't let me come and visit sessions
uh but that he was doing which at the
time were Stephen wolf and three dog
knight uh engineering those he would go
on to produce them the Lion Share of uh
both of their careers along with a lot
of other great Rock Records um but his
other engineer in the studio came over
and uh started listening to what I was
doing he said you know you're really
good and I yeah I know I didn't believe
it for a second about a year and a half
later he decided to quit the business
this guy and uh I I said do you think
Richie would hire me and he said well I
don't know but he should and so he told
Richie about me and I started begging
and here and what's amazing is by then
he had the hottest Rock Studio
independent studio in Los Angeles and uh
it was less than three years from when I
was in there for that first playback
where I literally didn't know the
difference between an equalizer and a
limiter and now I'm asking to engineer
his studio and uh after two months of
begging he finally let me try a demo
session and it worked and so I said see
I know I can do this and he said oh here
here's another demo session okay I did
it they liked me and then okay what now
and he said well come on tomorrow night
and record Three Dog
Night okay and this is excuse me what
you'd call being thrown in the deep end
of the pool and uh so there another time
when I was petrified but boy the
producer at the time uh was nice to me
and the band was nice to me and I cut a
track and it went well and next day
Richie said what do I do now Richie said
come on and third night another one and
uh uh on that third night I got in
trouble uh Richie is as I mentioned a
phenomenal guitar player and the guitar
player wanted an effect that I had no
idea how to get and so I had to call
Richie and he and bill came down and
took over and that was the end of my
tracking I did more overdubs and I hung
out as much as I could what was the
effect bill I don't
remember I don't remember and I don't
maybe he was making it up yeah it was
almost for sure I'm sure but you know
like I said Richie would know I mean he
hit this was their second album they
already had a hit and they were on their
way to being one of the biggest bands in
the 70 early 70s and uh and he had you
know he had engineered the the first Al
and I asked him you know I asked him
years later because that was my
springboard and I asked him years later
why in the world would you turn over
your biggest client Gabriel meckler who
was producing Stephan wilfin Three Dog
Night to a snot-nose kid if I had fallen
on my face he could have really gotten
pissed off that you wasted an evening
with and and let let alone after I did
the first night and the second night
you're letting me go on you know it it
doesn't make any sense and he he didn't
have any answer
10 years later about 20 years after that
I asked him again come on you got to
have some way up and he said the only
thing I can think of is I wanted the
band to see how important I was to you
know that I was really behind the the
records which he was and uh which still
doesn't explain why he let me continue
to record but since I fell on my face he
got back in the chair and took over and
all is well that ends so what kind of
consoles did they have like at this
studio for example you know if in the '
60s the uh everybody built their own
consoles there were no console
manufacturers per se so you know Capital
built their RCA built their so on and so
forth uh Richie Richie Studio had a
homemade console uh it was transistor it
was one of the early transistor consoles
and uh and it definitely for the time
especially you know it had a sound okay
and it would be how many Channel console
would it be I think i' I have a picture
of it I think it was 12 inputs okay 12
rotary pots and you'd be recording on a
four track four track at the time it
started for track when you're recording
on a four track are you doing bounces at
this point yeah when would you do your
first bounce you do the basic tracks and
then what you do you start doing bounces
right after that not always right after
it typically the Rhythm Section would be
one track right away okay and then you
might start doing some kind of uh
instrumental overdubs on another track
and maybe even and and for sure a vocal
to to get even a rough one whatnot and
then depending on how much you needed
that's when the bounces would start when
you start bouncing stuff like that
working in these early like four tracks
how do you know how much high-end
something's going to need after the
third bounce or whatever do you have to
actually crank up the high-end on
something would you add high-end to
things or these are really you would
right how would you know how much to do
when cuz you're basically premixing and
you're you can't really get back it's
not like undo with pro tools or anything
you put a phrase in there the answer is
experience so when you're a beginning
engineer you don't know you're going to
learn by doing yeah yeah that's exactly
what I had to do and see the the great
thing for me was I I've been playing
music One Way or Another since grade
school and but all my aptitude was in
math and science so much so that when I
uh when I started
College I I only I started college in
Aerospace that's what I thought I would
do uh we got signed right away so uh I
after the first semester I quit school
uh my dad was a Jewish doctor you know
what that means no dad I don't want to
be a doctor but then a
lawyer uh later I in fact would start
start law school just to shut him up but
but I quit I quit and chased the band
for two and a half years uh so uh but
music went out today
whatever I'd like to take a second to
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when you're recording and mix ing on a
four track you get the four tracks done
and then are you is there really a mix
are you kind of pushing faders a little
bit oh yeah you only have four tracks oh
yeah you know I was fortunate to be able
to watch a master which is you know what
was so great about the way the record
business was where you know for for for
a long time where you you'd get into a
studio as a t- boy or whatever you'd be
able to get over to uh uh talk your way
learn enough about what the equipment
does and everything at night you know be
beg the engineers to stay after and all
this stuff till you finally knew enough
to be able to be a second and run the
tape machine and help them stuff like
that and then you're able to watch a
bunch of Masters working see how they do
it so that when you get a chance after
hours or whatever to take someone in
that you can try and see what works for
you and I was very fortunate I only had
one of those but it was Richie Poler who
uh was phenomenal and uh so I was able
to to watch a lot of things and with
regard to your actual question yes there
were only four four things to turn but I
watched how he added Dynamics and and
helped things in that way and I caught
on to that early on and have carried
that through my whole career and you
guys would mix to a half inch or quarter
inch quarter inch back then in his place
yeah what would be the tape speed at
that time 15 on both right y so this
would be what year roughly uh
6768 in the United States from what I
understand there were multi-track
recorders eight track recorders 16 track
recorders H were were available before
they were in the UK is that true because
the Beatles did almost everything on for
track I think they Abby Road on eight
track well actually two for tracks but
yes um I don't know you know when's the
first time you saw an eight track or a
16 track when well Richie got an eight
track in about 68 I think okay' 69 we
were eight track by the time I'm working
there we're definitely eight track now
when you go from four to eight tracks
it's a big change yeah sure so how do
you start dividing things up are you
recording drums in two tracks one one
track back then one he was he was all
about back then especially he was all
about Mono the mono mix okay because and
his thing was it has to sound good on
the radio if it doesn't sound good on
the radio no one's going to buy it so it
doesn't matter what it sounds like in
speakers just make it sound good on the
radio and there's some innate way that
he saw that I watched him doing that I
picked up on and I said for years that I
thought my records sound better on the
radio than they do even when we went to
FM and they're in Stereo I thought they
sounded better on on on the air than
they did on speakers um but yeah it was
a big big change and so because he was
Mr mono and again I'm still watching him
like a hawk doing everything he does he
had the drums on a track and the bass on
a track and uh and then almost always
the Rhythm Section and then start doing
the overdubs in if you still had to do
some ping ponging you find what you'd
lose the least by taking it a generation
down and do that till you got it and
funny enough I remember the first time I
had a client there that asked that
wanted the drums in Stereo and Richie
had never done that and so you know I I
just uh okay so I did what I thought
would work in stereo and Richie came in
after the session walked into the
control room and heard the sound and
almost fainted he what in the world is
that I said it I put the he wanted the
drums in Stereo and he was listening
goes I don't know if I like
that and uh what he didn't like is the
very thing that stereo gives you which
is space right yeah whether it's the use
or the misuse I'll for the purposes of
this of Atmos a lot of a lot of people
that I really respect don't like it
because it's there's the power that you
get from stereo speakers that power is
gone you know you have more space than
you ever dreamt of and and that's great
if for that and I do love multi- Channel
immersive it's not but anyway that's
what was bugging him was that the drums
had normally been all the kick and the
snare and everything has been right
there always on the left speaker in his
studio and now all of a sudden it was
spread and uh he couldn't deal with it
what kind of compressors would you use
how would you get the drums balanced is
that why people used compression on
drums things like that he never used
compression on drums so I didn't for a
long long time myself okay his drum
setup at the time was uh an
overhead a snare a kick and it's
somewhat similar to Glen John's but it
was really more for the Tom he it was
really just for the Tom Glenn did it the
similar way his his second mic is up
higher and that's for stereo but Richie
was doing it because he wanted a mono
thing a mono picture and and if you like
he taught me in the beginning he saidou
know if you got a guy like Hal Blaine
and you're not getting enough Tom just
tell him Hal the next take will you lay
into the floor tom a little and then it
would be fine you didn't need that mic
but with a a rock band something like
that you know they're they're not quite
as eloquent on the kit so then you might
want to have that to balance the toms so
the session guys would know the producer
would say or they would even listen to a
playback and say I need to hit the hit
the Tom harder and they would just self
miix essentially and this is why they
were great session players on top of
coming up with unique parts and playing
with great time absolutely is that they
knew how to balance the drum kit or
whatever instrument they were playing
but especially the drum kit right so
when did people start using compressors
on drums I know the Beatles obviously
did early on that was a thing that was
part of the sound you saw a lot of that
in the uh in the English movement of the
60s yep yeah you a lot more than I ever
heard in America did people talk about
that did did you notice the the energy
in the Beatles if you listen to Tomorrow
Never Knows or records like that that
there's an energy created because of the
compression Fair Childs and things like
that did Studios have fairchilds or
anything like that or no no mastering
Studios some mastering Studios had them
but recording studios didn't I think
Richie only Richie had uh two la2a or
three la2a and when the 1176 came out
then a couple of those and that was you
know in 77172 that was very common
that's what okay and what would you use
those for tracking vocals voal Bas
acoustic guitar acoustic guitar
sometimes yeah how much compression
would you use if you were tracking would
it be very minimal compression minimal
much more for leveling uh than it was
for the sound you know that's the most
interesting thing to me about about
compressions you know they actually came
from the film world and they were
designed they were designed to when when
the audio was on a film track uh it it
was it was designed to keep it from
going the red where it would distort and
there was no fixing so that's where it
came from and as they designed them and
different people got into trying it
there was this darn thing that you know
but it affected the sound you know it
made this it changed the sound and they
were really bugged by it and of course
as you well know that became exactly
what we use them for right we use them
to change the sound because we want it
to pump or we want it to you know to be
held extra high hard or whatever it's
kind of interesting would people use
chains of you know would people have
outboard eqs when did you start using
things like that rich Richie had Langs
and ptech he had a couple of each yeah
uh the the EQ on his homemade console
was um a a little a great sounding
little equalizer by Lan great sounding
because it was passive so the sound the
sound was only Changed by the recovery
amp that you used instead of anything
internal but and of course the knees and
Langs had outstanding sounding uh ampli
tube amplifiers in them uh that gave you
that flavor too along with it um as you
know I you know I I don't think I
changed much for a long time in terms of
limiters meaning that I uh I didn't get
into you know excessive use and I
definitely through through the whole all
of the 70s I never had a bus limiter
there might be one in mastering was that
uncommon at to have a bus limiter just
in general I think so yeah back then
absolutely so that's really a thing of
the 80s more my version is SSL changed
everything okay for me not necessarily
for the better I was not a fan of ssls
the sound until the 9,000 came out was
the first which is way longer way longer
and I I remember saying you know all the
early ones and a lot of guys and good
Engineers Bobby uh Clear Mountain came
up on that and whatnot and used as you
it was part of the sound and all that
that compressor especially their stereo
compressor uh the record company anr
people jumped on it like there was no
tomorrow sure I thought it was the
lamest thing going because and there's
so many great stories Glenn John's gave
me one there's a lot of them uh Glenn's
was the fact if well if you ever heard
uh FM radio on a good system you heard
their compression which was insane so
they it would jump out of the speakers
when someone's flipping the dial yeah
and so the these anr guys Glenn comes in
with and the guy shows him someone that
has done an SSL mix and he said that's
rubbish and he said but it sounds like
it's on the radio and he went exactly
you know sounds just as bad coming out
of the speakers as it will when it comes
out of FM radio on good speakers it's
like you know but but that became the
sound of you know and yeah of records
and and that's when everyone started
compressing more and more okay so you
worked with Ringo
on his uh
1973 release that had photograph on it I
mean really a lot of his your 16 a lot
of his biggest hits are on this one
record so 1973 where are you recording
this in La you most of this you did you
talk about it in your book Sunset sound
at Sunset sound the tracks you did with
McCartney were done over over there
McCartney couldn't come in the country
at the time because he'd had a drug bust
so he wasn't allowed in America for a
year 18 months or something something
and that album I've always said it it
was you know it was never told to me but
it certainly looked like the other three
Beatles were giving him a leg up knowing
that their careers were were going to
SAR because of their songwriting and
Ringo not being the song writer that
they were they all kind of jumped in to
help him out kind of thing which is
really cool yeah I think that he started
photograph and George helped him finish
the song is that right or it was it
George's song he started it yeah he it
was George he started it in England he
did a version in England Y and then when
Richard Perry and Ringo teamed up to do
the record uh we we started the record
and I don't remember what the first song
we cut was but the next day or two days
later or something George came over from
England and heard what we had done and
was very impressed and he jumped in then
and now I had two of The Beatles playing
on the records and on the record and he
played he played the he said you know I
got a great song for Ringo here that did
you know and he played it and you know
photograph is obviously the singer's
lost his girl and all he has is her
photograph and uh Richard thought and I
think rightfully so that uh George's
version was just a little too mournful
okay and a little happier version you
know might be good and that's when he
decided to give it the Phil Spectre wall
of sound kind of thing and George jumped
right in and and and jumped on it and
made it you know made it what it was you
talk about the Phil Spectre wall of
sound just for people that don't know
what that even means explain what that
means well on on those records in the
60s that he did he had you know huge
Rhythm sections he'd have two pianos and
four guitars it was sort of it was a
wall of sound you didn't hear individual
things at all it was just literally kind
of a wall of sound yeah or everything
everything was coming at you and done
right it definitely it was unique for
sure yeah and
and of course he recorded some of the
best songs ever uh in in that wall of
sound and we didn't do it quite like
that uh exactly we did it as a Rhythm
Section but George did I can't remember
I have I think I have the track sheet uh
I think you know I don't know how many
guitars he did but it was acoustic
guitars there was a lot of them going
and U but uh then to that end Richard
did hire uh the arranger that Phil
always used for Strings and a choir
later on I want to play photograph so
that people that may not know that
[Music]
song every time I see your face it
reminds me of the places we used to go
but all I've got is a
photograph and I
realize you're not coming back
anymore I thought I'd make
it the day you went
away but I can't make it till you come
home home again
[Music]
toay what am I hearing here Like These
acoustic guitars how would you track a
song like that no click tracks ever
right what's the first thing that gets
laid down is it a scratch vocal along
with the the whole Rhythm Section
playing together uh I don't I you know
it depended on song to song but so I
don't remember uh but ringle's playing
drums on that so there was no scratch
vocal at a live one anyway I think it
was probably just piano acoustic guitar
and bass and drums isolated everything
isolated in the same room or would they
be in isob boo typically back then uh
whatever you had Sunset sound after that
built uh some more isolation booths but
I don't think I think there was only
there was only one do you remember if
you were in a or b the uh two I AR they
one and two and three I was in two the
front room the room on the street just
now hearing the Acoustics I remember it
was uh I I remember I used Sony c37 on
the Acoustics which they had a lot of
and uh very good microphone uh
unfortunately uh I can't remember what
was on the drums I mean but typically
what would you how many mics would you
use on a drum kit back then by 73 I mean
it's obviously a bass drum Mike so
here's the thing let me give you a
little history of me with drums yeah uh
I got I got famous in Los Angeles for
the this bill CH drum sound and it's
kind of funny to me because I had met
Glenn John's who I just adored what he
did uh as far as size goes with the way
he used those mics I described earlier
but I he didn't use a snare mic and I
didn't like that at all um funny enough
neither did Keith Moon after he did
who's next Keith had gone and done an
album with someone else that used a
snare mic and when they went back for
the next album Glenn Glenn and Keith got
in a big fight because he really wanted
a snare mic but uh so I had that in my
head about the size and that I was
really I wanted that size but I wanted
impact and what happened was I started
listening to uh the early British
records especially the uh Trident
Studios Elton Elton John for instance
and here I was raised by an old school
guy which was you you select the Right
microphone and you know learn how micing
Works to to get the sound you want and
you if you have to use EQ then you use
EQ but you start with the mic and how
it's placed some I still think is
absolutely excellent to do absolutely
yeah EQ is not necessarily bad but you
use it if you have to uh all of a sudden
I'm hearing uh two things in elton's
records one there's obviously a mic on
every drum I can hear that okay and two
I am now hearing the sound of
Equalization they're eqing it to death
sort to speak they're really eqed okay
there was something in all of that that
I kind of liked and so the quote Bill
schn drum sound was me taking that
without all of the EQ but definitely
that's when I started miking all the
drums and learning again I said earlier
how do you learn when you know young you
just keep trying it and until you get it
right and I I'm pretty sure by this
already I'm I'm I've got Tom mics okay
and what kind of Tom mics would you use
I I'm pretty sure by then I'm using
tunkin overhead C12 C12 akg's or tun in
a stereo pair or single stereo would
they be a space pair what would you use
yeah trying to catch the kit from here
so to speak this is where I started
later on I actually started doing both I
started doing sort of Glenn's thing with
Tom Mike's okay as well but back then it
was definitely like that and and then
sorry I can't remember what what those
mics were but you know how the memories
are I got to tell you a funny story
about that uh about I don't know eight
or 10 years ago now uh I was I happened
to be at Sunset sound and the uh owner
came in and said um you know the the the
the the guy there's an English company
that for the console we had on Ringo's
album sound techniques he's bought the
rights to it in England and he wants you
know he wants your opinion of what was
on and I went sound techniques I I did I
didn't use the sound techniques and he
said no you did that's what was there I
said are you crazy I I don't and comes
in with a picture and shows me the
picture and as soon as I saw it I went
oh my gosh you're right that is the what
it was so talk about memories and that
that was 10 years ago and this is 10
years later no idea what the Tom mics
were I mean it's not like you had a
million different mics that people would
use back in that day right there would
be only certain microphones you'd have
nyman microphones you'd have Sennheiser
microphones Telefunken there was certain
brands that were that were well AKG yeah
what I do know when I tried uh Dynamics
I didn't like it which is what I dare
say most people do to this this day I
think uh I didn't like I wanted even I
wanted the Fidelity so even on the toms
you would use condenser mics right so
okay explain to the lay person what the
difference between a dynamic and a
condenser mic is condenser mics are are
they are powered one way or another the
there's a power to the capsule that that
goes on the capsule and Dynamics don't
have that there and the best way to
describe it is there's a more buoyant
sound to a condenser it's more usually
almost all well almost always more full
range yep and uh and not as dry is the
only word I know how to describe but
higher Fidelity higher Fidelity sound up
and down bik yes yeah the the extreme
top end and bottom end yeah I tried uh
421 sen heis of 421s which a lot of
people still use and I just didn't like
that that dry sound it didn't blend as
well with me with the condensers that
were picking up hopefully most of the
drum kit the reason it's hard to
remember back then because the problem
that you had was that's an incredible
amount of level when you when you're
sitting on a drum head sure so there
were only certain mics that could take
it and uh I'm pretty sure c37svtcnsuy
yeah the the early early ones like and
then later on the d112 maybe or whatever
but they were very very popular when I
when I left Richie's Studio he used a an
oddball EV mic electrovoice mic and I
went and bought one and it didn't sound
the same in any other Studio that didn't
work so I went crazy when I left his
studio trying things to to get a bass
drum sound anything like what we were
getting at his place and what I ended up
with which was again nothing like his
place but I I could work with it was uh
the 421 on the kick didn't like it on
the Tom's inside the kick pretty much
yeah at that time would people have no
bass drum head or was there still a
front bass drum head uh it was
combination okay combination a lot of
guys still had a front head uh and but
it wasn't as much the way it what ended
up happening is a hole in the front head
so you had a little bit of the mounts
but uh but back then it would be
uh if if they had a front head we'd
usually just take it off put a blanket
in there and put the drum inside and so
it's a very flat sound and certainly
nothing you know nothing of to as much
tone as you can get with two heads any
other room mics would that be a common
thing or no no no room mic it was called
leakage it was the you had you had the
sound of of the drums getting into other
instruments and you and and early early
on you did your best to work with that
to make it your friend uh you know my my
whole story of uh uh in when eight Trak
came out is when leakage became a bad
word up until that point um you know
first of all the rooms were designed for
an ensemble to play in so they weren't
too live they weren't too dead that you
know and when atak came out it was um
all of a sudden it became a bad thing
the the hypothetical that I give is that
there was uh the producer comes in for a
new session with his band and he the
engineer says you know we really should
go to atra why isn't the tape more
expensive yeah yeah yeah but listen we
put things on separate tracks you have
much more control in the mix we have
we're able to get the mix much more
focused and everything you can even
rearrange it you know you can take
things in and out oh okay so he pays the
extra money they do the thing he comes
in for the mix on the first song and
he's listening he goes yeah I like your
mix okay what would sound like if you
took if you took the drums out of the
intro and just let the piano have it so
he turn he notice that it's a rotary
fader still he turns down the he turns
down the drums and producer says I I
still hear the symbols and he goes uh
yeah that's the spill of the drums into
the piano so we can't take that to can
we he said no I guess not but uh next
time I can fix that and that's when we
started blanketing pianos that's when we
and ultimately that led to the redesign
through the 70s of recording studios
where they were dead boxes because uh we
don't want the sound of this instrument
to get over here so that's how we do it
unfortunately the sound of this
instrument in that kind of room isn't as
good as it in a dead box as it is in a
room that gives you something so uh 1980
when I built my own Studio the reason I
built it the only reason I told the uh
architect the only reason I'm building a
studio is to get a room with a sound
like the ones built in the 50s and and
early 60s and uh I don't know how to get
it I'll know it when I have it if we
don't get it the first time I'm tearing
the inside out and doing it over and I
went with celotex which is what Richie
had in his studio and all radio Studios
and evidently on TV a lot of
interrogation rooms in police stations
it's the the one foot the one foot white
uh tablets with holes in it yeah
sometimes random sometimes fixed and I
went with that because I knew I knew
that had good properties for deadening
sound and uh and it worked out great in
my studio how did you get the gig
working with Steely Dan it's funny you
should ask that because uh I just
learned that very
recently um Gary Katz the producer
called me up and said uh would you like
to record the next Steely Dan album and
I said uh let me think about yes as a
matter of fact I would love to and when
I I remember when I got off the phone my
friends Jeff barar Michael ardian that
had played on previous records had told
me about the dare I call them maniacal
ways that they would go through
sometimes s to get what they wanted and
I'm not a particularly patient person
more over than that uh I really like I
like to move fast in everything in life
but my creative juices you know they
don't want to get stalled and the plane
drop out of the sky so I want to keep
moving and whatnot uh and I I I have to
watch myself if it's not even even more
so when I'm producing sometimes but
always that I don't drive Somebody To
You Know overdrive them but I knew I had
to do it I knew I had to do it so I done
did it and and to my wonderful surprise
that album was very different than any
album they ever did before or after
first of all it was all professional
musicians they had used interpers
professional musicians but this was the
whole
band was was top professional musicians
and it was a no drug Zone with which
also surprised me uh and they were they
were professional type sessions I mean
we started at 2:00 we ended early was
that is that a normal time to have
started or not well it depends on the
you know know people didn't start
sessions at 10: a.m. well bands usually
wouldn't okay you know bands usually
wouldn't like when you watch The Beatles
things they would come in at 8 in the
morning or whatever it looked like they
would be like a job so some would some
wouldn't but uh and most most
professional sessions would start at 10
but these guys wanted to start at 2 and
and it worked great um I mean it was
just they were wonderful I mean it was
nothing like what I had expected we we
moved very quickly uh you know they
never got hung up on anything and it was
great you know uh you I know you've
talked to a lot of people involved they
probably told you every day they came in
with a piano base demo sometimes with a
la la once in a while with a little bit
of uh lyric but but always a piano-based
demo that they would play and they had
given those to Larry Carlton he did the
charts of them and it's so interesting
because more than once on those sessions
one of the musicians said Donald that
sounds unbelievable why don't you just
overdub the drums and he said no no
we'll get it better we'll get it better
and did we didn't we who knows but you
know a funny story I don't know if you
know this one uh about eight months or
something after Asia came out they
called me to do a session for uh the
film FM that right yeah and uh Jim kler
played drums and so we got the track and
they went off like they did on Asia to
do their overdubs and whatnot and
evidently they didn't like the track and
they went back to the piano voice thing
and overdub Jeff Baro and that's the
record so when you can hear by listening
to FM which is kind of kind of an Asia
song You Hear kind of what Donald's
demos would sound like yeah exactly
because that is that was the demo when
he would come in and play the demos so
so Larry would have the charts written
out the guys would show up to the
studio they'd be on stands you'd help
set all this stuff up and whatever
assistants were there right how far
apart of these guys can they see each
other I ask everybody this same question
if Michael is om Martin's playing the
piano is the piano have packing blankets
on it and if it does how do you how do
you mic it it was in the studio called
producers Workshop mhm and and uh which
was owned by the at that time by the
management company of Liberace okay and
because of that problem problem of
leakage they had built a shell around
the piano so there was the keyboard and
a and a wall all like like a plexiglass
wall or or a okay wood wall yeah wooden
wall all around it but you could still
see over it right no you had it was up
against the control room wall and what
he could see you know he would look over
there you could see the the music Ians
he'd look right over there's the drummer
over there he might not see the guitars
we're probably back there as I recall
okay but so line of sight was always
very very important to me so you you're
setting up for a session let's say
you're recording the song Asia like to
come back to that okay what first of all
when Gary in that first phone call he
said you know the boys are uh are are
wanting are are really concerned about
drums we're going to have a revolving
door of drums so you're going to be
getting a new drum sound every few days
MH just want you to know that and I said
okay that's fine no problem I remember
the day they said that you know uh Steve
gad's flying in today and we have him
for two days uh and oh great so uh I was
very familiar with 50 Ways to Leave Your
I'm a wannabe drummer as is Michael om
Marian uh and I I I love drums and that
the the whole Groove that he came up
with on 50 Ways to Leave Your L with the
drag snare is just phenomenal so I was
really excited to see him and I don't
remember what we cut we cut four songs
in two days with him okay so at the end
of the first day everyone's left and
they're just kind of talk talking to to
each other and I walk by and I hear yeah
not me
either you know me either and I went
what I'm sorry what he said Oh no just
talking about Steve oh he was great
wasn't he you know honestly we didn't
really love him I said really why I said
why he said well you know we like we
like to BackBeat like Kelner or picaro
you know where it's kind of back you
know he's he's kind of just too on the
beat for me and I went guys that's my
favorite kind of drummer too but listen
to what we he played today I'm pretty
sure uh I'm pretty sure I I know that I
know I'm I I'm pretty sure the bear you
know the bear these unreleased one and
uh seaw wall those might have been the
first two so anyway I I was I was
absolutely shocked in fact the next day
we did the next two songs and you know
when we were done with all the tracking
they asked me this is a whole another
story but they asked me to you we're
going to go off and do our overdubs for
six months and we want you to mix it and
I said guys I got to tell you I don't
think uh our Styles would go together at
that time uh have again having been Le
learn Having learned from the beginning
about mixing live um and and then uh
whatnot I you know I mixed for a
performance so I wanted to start the
song and I you know I'd marked the
faders as to where I thought the
relative static balance would be but uh
it was a performance on my part at that
point all the all the way and I had I
had already heard what mixing with them
was like and Donald turned to me and
said you'll try won't you you know kind
of like that and I said of course I will
and so six months later they brought
when Josie comes home went into a studio
that I liked a lot and I I got the mix
they came over and listened to it and oh
it sounds great sounds great and then it
started what about what if we did this
okay well what if we did this in the
verse but it did that in the chorus okay
and this went on and on and on and after
about four more five more hours of that
I would they could tell I it and I
finally I said guys look yeah I was
afraid of this you know you got a
phenomenal album here it's going to be
great whoever you get to mix it and uh
and I knew it would be Elliot for the
lion Sher Shin yeah Elliot Shiner and
and it was and and is but the cute story
that I love is uh I worked a lot with
very incredible producer Richard Perry
who was a you know the star producer
through the 70s and uh at the end of the
first day I called Richard and I said
Richard you know Steve Gad and he said
yeah 50 Ways to Leave Your Lover I said
yeah I just recorded him today cut two
tracks this guy is a monster and he said
good old Richard do you think I could
have a session with him I said well he's
going back to New York after tomorrow um
and he said what time do you start and I
went oh no uh 2 o'clock well okay hold
on so I called Gary Gary was a huge fan
of Richard's but also knew Richard's
ways Richard was a real Pusher he he
would beat BS up getting the track
getting the music out of him so he said
okay he can come in but you got to cut
it off at one the boys will kill me okay
so you're you're set up to record Steely
Dan you've recorded one day of Steve Gad
use the same setup that you're using
exactly Richard had his own Studio at
that point I said but you're going to
have to come here CU I'm not getting the
so he brings over the tape or you throw
up new tape to record this stuff right
and the exact same setup that's being
used to record the Asia sessions he
comes in with this uh affable little
fellow Leo s mhm and uh we start working
on this song uh and lo and behold it's
it's the first or second cousin to 50
Ways to Leave Your Lover on Steve's part
and it's just great and you know people
say you know when you when you have a
hit record do you know it at the time I
said you know probably most often not
but he put a rough vocal on you make me
feel like dancing and I and I knew right
then oh my gosh that this is going to be
a hit and we the most amazing part is we
got it in 2 hours and 35 minutes which
was unheard of for Richard I mean he
normally took 5 hours okay so the song
You Make Me Feel Like Dancing which was
a number one song is recorded on the
same day that he tracked Asia yep so
then but let me finish so two hours and
35 minutes Richard being The Pusher that
he is says can we do another song I said
Richard we got 25 minutes there's no way
he said I'll stop I promise I said all
right right fine so we we go out he does
another song that song was called how
much love when when that when his album
came out Leo Al came out the first
single was when I need you number one
second single was You Make Me Feel Like
Dancing you said number one the third
one was the other track from him how
much love I think it was top 20 and that
afternoon I cut two more tracks with
with Gad including Asia that's called a
big day in the studio okay if I'm
listening to these songs if I'm
listening to You Make Me Feel Like
Dancing and and listen to Asia the drum
sounds are going to be S very similar
right yeah of course the drum part is in
drum part is different but the drum
sound yeah I need to that's a that's a
great video right there yeah it is the
exact same drum sound speaking of the
drum sound I want to play the uh basic
Rhythm track which um which you have
here you're going to play the track I
gave you yeah yeah the funny the cute
story of that which I think I told you
when I sent it to you was that you know
second Engineers do bad things when
everyone's gone and about it was only
about 10 years ago uh one of the second
Engineers on those tracking dates told
me you know I went in after and and
copied the tracks I said you did and uh
he said yeah and I baled him out not
that he had done it but he told me he
only got about five of them or something
I said why didn't you get all of them
but yeah it was great to hear the track
and you hear that because uh and again
we talked about this memories are
fallible yeah I said it in the book if
someone remembers a story different than
me you know mine's fall yours is too who
knows to the best of my ability and I
had a pretty darn good memory have a
pretty darn good memory uh we rehearsed
this song more than any other song and
michaelian remembers that well it's an
incredibly complex Arrangement oh my
gosh yes and with chords that don't make
any sense and it had no Melody on it and
I remember you know every day at the end
of a session I would go home and pop a
cassette in with whatever we had done
and that day I I remember popping it in
and listening on the way home and I went
you know I mean I loved the chords and
how what he had done with it but I went
how in the world is a Melody going to go
on it just sounded like one long so they
didn't have a demo of this song then
right I didn't hear any laas or lyrics
at that point I think he I'm pretty sure
he wrote everything after the fact he
wrote everything to this probably right
to to the to a rough from all the
different stories I one thing I know for
sure we only did two takes not one y and
we used the one with the click sticks
and I just recently asked Donald do you
remember if that was track one the first
or second he goes I don't and uh then I
asked him did you by any chance edit the
two takes together and he was going we
might have which to me is no you didn't
right but I I've I I I haven't done a
one maybe you will a Ono one comparison
the whole way but at least through the
first
solo for sure it's the same that's the
same thing yes that's it let me play a
little bit I'm going to go a little bit
into the track
[Music]
here okay so let's set this up we have
Steve Gad on drums Larry Carlton on
guitar Michael Marty on piano Chuck
Rainey on the bass and someone on
electric piano yeah probably Victor
Feldman probably Victor Feldman I once
in a while Joe Sample played the second
but vict yeah but I remember Victor
playing roads
more it's just an astounding track it's
just
[Music]
gorgeous
[Music]
okay it's so
tight it is so tight the guys are
looking at each other right while
they're playing it or they are these are
long charts I it was when they started
rehearsing it you know we had to take a
good amount of time and get every M uh
music stand we could to to get you know
like Steve's especially he wanted to be
able to see the whole thing and it was I
it was at least eight pages if not 10
I've heard as much as 15 okay so Larry
did the transcriptions of this stuff
then so Larry wrote out these charts yep
and and they were followed I mean in
terms the only thing I remember was
Sometimes some moving around of sections
on a song yeah this one I think was you
know like I said there was so much
rehearsal going on maybe there was some
of that there probably was now I think
about it but uh but but in terms of the
the uh the actual words of what what
Donald and Walter wanted that that was
almost never changed once in a while
somebody might come up with a voicing
that was different or what if it was
this instead of that a little bit that
but it was you know probably 90% what
was brought in okay so I'm going to move
a little bit ahead
[Music]
here
[Music]
the clarity of everything on here and
this is this probably was was this done
to cassette or done to a quarter inch
this this rough mix here you in qu I'm
sure the symbols the toms the punchiness
of it the clarity of the piano the
guitar when you miked Larry's guitar amp
would you use one microphone on it
typically would you use a condenser mic
what would you use it's hard to know cuz
I I went back and forth over the the
years what did you like to use like
typically uh on on guitar amps um 57 yep
start with a 57 and you can't go wrong
so this is something that would go go
way back that that was a common always
been a common guitar microphone 57 but
when I wanted uh you know because back
then on that I'm pretty sure it was a
you know no more if it was a 12-in
speaker in his thing I'd be surprised it
was either a 10 or a 12 it was not a big
amp at all yeah and uh
so if it was in that studio it would
probably have been a if if it was a
condenser it probably was a noyman c84
okay and let me say about that you're
talking about all the clarity and this
and that which actually goes back to why
they hired me um this was the this
little Studio producers Workshop was
behind the mastering lab and Doug Sachs
famous mastering engineer had opened the
lab in ' 67 and to to help sell his the
lab he did did an album direct to dis
meaning he brought his partner was a
keyboard player great keyboard player
and they he did Arrangements of some
songs and they did an album directed
disc which means you recorded song one
then song two then song three then song
four because it's going right to the
lathe and you can't stop and start the
lathe
so um when he he did one he did that and
and pressed it up and it was he was
giving them out to people to say I do
great mastering now he's cheating
because direct to dis you cut out two
generations of analog tape and only one
passed through the console so you're
you're much cleaner and pure than than
normal so it was a little unfair how he
did that he did that but whatever but in
1972 they asked me to they were going to
do another one of lincol my orgas music
again and I did it and I mean it was the
most fun I'd ever had in the studio I
mean three days you have an album
recorded mixed and mastered and uh a lot
of pressure attention for sure some I
never smoked but somebody had one of
those Tipper rollas with a wooden tip on
it and I asked for it and I went through
one of the takes and 15 minutes later I
pulled out the splinters because it was
it it was nerve-wracking I went on to
convince Doug to let me produce an album
direct to dis with a vocalist and I
wanted to do more contemporary music
than what Lincoln did that's what ended
up happening I had just worked I only
knew two singers that could deliver a
vocal on the last cut the first was
Barbara strand who had done the last
three albums and I called her manager
who literally said go away Kid you're
bothering me and the other one was a
brand new artist on mtown that I had
just done some singles they were testing
her out named Thelma Houston and so
that's uh I went to mtown and agreed and
then we did that record well funny
enough here a couple of years later Gary
cats calls me to do the record and I you
know I told you the story and I've
always wondered wondered for years why
they called me and uh I a couple of
years ago I was with Elliot Shiner and I
asked him you know why did they hire me
and he said because they fired me and I
said well that's why they fired you but
why did they hire me and he said I don't
know and so anyway very recently there's
a reissue of uh Asia at 45 RPM which
sounds really good yeah and it yeah it
was Mastered by Bernie grundman did the
original and whatnot and it's at 45 so
it takes two discs and 45 not only
sounds better going faster but you stay
away from the inner Groove which CA
which has Distortion yep so it's it's a
really delightful piece and uh in in the
Box they sent it to me and in the Box uh
Donald wrote a little paragraph of liner
notes and in it he says we had found we
had heard about this guy Bill schne who
was known for highi da da da d da and I
am convinced that it was that directed
disc record that made a lot of noise in
all over the world but it it was found
Thelma's record was in every Hi-Fi store
in the country and soon the world
because the weakest link in a Hi-Fi
system is almost always the source and
you give them a better sounding Source
their amplifiers cartridges everything
sound better so that's what what it was
so I just learned that a few weeks ago
why they why they hired me okay so I
want to get to this to the drum part
that every body talks
[Music]
about
okay first of all that sounds phenomenal
the Tom sounds everything about that
sounds incredible
now some of that is Steve Gad knows how
to hit the
drums perfectly right but the recording
tune them and hit them yeah yes and hit
them but the recording of it is
spectacular this stick click that was
unintentional totally did that bother
Walter and Donald it's hard to know it's
really hard to know um like I said I I
asked Donald recently what do you
remember if it was the first take or
second take and he doesn't like I don't
the stick looks perfectly on time yeah
well I guess I don't know what he was
going for you know but he hit the other
stick instead of whatever drum he was
aiming for but it sounded it almost
sounds like like he intended to do
intended to do it because it's so
perfectly placed in the beat and it's a
perfect stick click yeah who knows but
you know I I just remember the I I do
remember this on the first take and the
second take uh it's not and it's not
that that wasn't rehearsed but it wasn't
then other words it none of the
rehearsals had that that you know he
might have been doing something but it
wasn't that he definitely put it in
another gear when the first time we put
it down on tape did everybody react when
he played it did did well we didn't see
it but you had to you could not not
react you're sitting there in the
control room and this is coming through
the speakers live I'm sitting there with
my hands on the faders trying to make
sure got everything going and it's like
what in the world is happening here cuz
I it was unlike anything on a rock
record that you would ever hear pop
record whatever you want to call it when
I interviewed Michael Omarian about it
he said that they couldn't believe what
he was playing and one of the other
amazing things I know you know is you
you know you talk about a tight band oh
my gosh the punches and hits and
everything yes they're they're
incredible yeah you know again if
everyone was going off of a click that's
one thing because guys learned how to
you know through the years have learned
the the great musicians uh that uh they
learn how to play with a click and so
that's one thing but this is this is in
the room with everybody and they you
know I don't think there's one missed
one would they come back in the control
room and listen back to these things
after yeah now something like this
that's so
unusual would they uh would this be
something like I don't believe that
that's amazing I mean the the the later
on drum Parts here that
[Music]
[Music]
happen
[Music]
I mean that's some amazing drumming
right there okay now when you come back
and listen to playback and you hear that
were they I would think that they'd be
high five and Ste Steve Gad like what
that was amazing right I can tell you
this based on what I told after the
first day yeah I when when he left I
didn't think they were going to use
anything that he did I I I I didn't
think and I was shocked you know like I
said I did try to mix it didn't work out
whatever whatever when I didn't hear it
then until the record came out and when
I heard it Asia huh and I'm I didn't
know what it was I don't know that it
had that title I I I don't remember if
some of them had titles a lot of them
like I said I know this was just one
long instrumental it didn't have any
lyrical ideas of any kind and I went and
it came on and I went whoa that's that
instrumental that that incredible thing
and it was so great to hear it again so
when you heard the finished mix of the
record you must have been so proud of it
right to being involved with this I mean
this is still one of the greatest
recorded records of all time I mean it's
wonderful that it has endured the way it
has um again I mean and there it's all
great the whole record is great for
crying out loud but um um that
particular cut especially there's just
it's just you know it it it yeah I'm
very proud of the the whole experience I
want to ask you a couple specific things
too because you work with Larry Carlton
a lot yeah when you talk about the
tightness and this and that everything
else I can't emphasize enough how good
that studio was the room itself for the
size room and it wasn't very big at all
when you say not very big compared to
this room
um H prob when we pull it out like this
uh probably the same at the most May
teeny bit smaller maybe but about the
same okay but it was a good sounding
room you know it wasn't it wasn't super
dead at all now by the time you put a
band in there it deadens down you know
let on big band but uh and they had a
homemade console I was always big on
homemade consoles that's why I built
mine in my own Studio Y and really great
sounding console and accurate monitors
you know everything you need and the
they direct to discre record that I did
two years earlier um uh same same exact
studio with Larry and Dean Parks were on
that session and that was that directed
this session was huge it was it was
Thelma six background singers two
drummers Kelner and Gordon because I
wanted two two of the most different
feeling drummers that I could get to try
to have you know so I had the guy that
lays it back and Gordon was always
almost leaning and two best guitar
players uh o Omarian and someone else I
mean I I had a phenomenal band and
really helped make that record what it
was Larry Dean Omarian Chuck Rainey
these Kelner Steve G these people are so
accurate they're playing is so accurate
would they ever say you know I didn't
like that one thing I did there can we
punch this one section how often would
that happen it would it could happen it
could happen for sure when people come
in the control room and say boy I think
I think I could do a better take or yeah
absolutely okay and would ever would
someone ever go out you a song like that
you could never go out and re oh no no
it's Perfection yet it's not even played
to a click right and it's so accurate
yeah musicianship the musicianship on
this entire record is so good again they
spent months doing overdubs yeah months
and um of course what what really
thrilled me was that shorter solo you
know and and all of the ones the ones
that I have the that the second engineer
did capture um that they didn't lose the
heart and soul of any of them yeah you
know they changed almost nothing on this
obviously not a whole lot on this one
some of them they made some changes but
they still the the sole of the basic
track is absolutely there they oh yeah
that that sounds that's the song except
for the real big change on Peg because
they recut that totally after me my
version version i c was very very
different and that was much their new
one was much better I want to go back to
the Ringo record and you worked with all
four Beatles on that how were their
personalities different at that point
this is post Beatles this is you know
three years after they broke up when
John lennin came in were you
nervous um how old am I 24 I think MH
nervous I'll tell you I remember going
in to do the setup Sunday night before
the session and first thing as I go in I
trip over not literally uh the flight
cases and here it says the Beatles Ringo
Star okay and then I go in the room and
here's a drum kit now it may not have
been on any Beetle records I don't know
whatever but it's Ringo's drums yeah so
you're a little nervous when miking them
up and whatever um wondering what's
going to happen and uh I didn't meet him
until the next day for the first time
Ringo is if you've ever seen him on an
interview anywhere what you see is what
you get it's just
funloving funloving guy y uh peace and
love peace and love then when George
came over he was known as The Quiet One
he wasn't so quiet okay now then again
he wasn't sitting behind lenon and
McCartney Right and uh as we all know
his songwriting when he got out from
under that went through the roof once he
wasn't was he intimidated I don't know
but let's just say his songwriting
definitely got great by when he was
although Abby RH his two songs are the
are the St standout tracks on the record
but he was he was quite vocal and you
know like I said he liked what we had
been doing and he jumped right in and
was offering suggestions and just made
the session go smoothly and then at the
end of the week when Richard said um uh
Monday John's coming in with his song
and oh okay and I didn't think about it
until again Sunday night when I went
wait a minute there's going to be three
Beatles in the room and uh and it was so
interesting because John uh was very cut
and dried I mean there was all business
all business all music he ran the you
know the they both the other two were
just looking to anything and everything
he said he was he directing and the
record was done when he said it was done
the whole
bit and uh now what's interesting is I
did the next record
uh two years later I guess it was with
Ringo where JN played a much bigger role
I got to spend a lot more time with him
and whatnot and uh unfortunately the
others were off doing their things and
so there wasn't as much involvement
there was John's uh demeanor a little
different then was it or were you less
nervous I was much less nervous by then
yeah you know I have to say that on on
both sessions the thing especially the
second one where his personality came
out over and over and over again if he
opened his mouth it was incredible it
was music if whether it was a vocal part
whether it was an
idea whatever it was it was boom there I
can't remember there's a there's a on
the second album there's uh some
acoustic guitar sound a recut and it was
him doing it he was in in the iso Booth
doing it and and Richard said wait wait
what why don't we do that and John said
we can and we did and but he he was in
the control room he's sitting in the I'm
Richard n at the console and he's on the
couch in front and something's going on
and he just sings out a vocal part out
of his mouth and Richard rightfully so
hold on hold on can you put that on tape
for us and we'd stop right then and do
it everything that came out of his mouth
was just brilliant would there be a time
when they'd all come in the control room
together and listen yeah all the time so
you'd have three Beatles in the control
room with you at that time that Monday
yes are you sitting there at the console
thinking no yeah most of the Beatles is
3/4 of The Beatles are right here next
to me right and I I might have still
been so nervous then that I I might have
gotten up to let somebody sit in the
center chair and you know get let them
all kind of get around to hear the
speakers properly and me me go over by
the tape machine or something you could
see though why they were the Beatles
yeah would you would you say that a fair
statement yeah especially and especially
so interesting to see John first who who
is you know cut and dried and then we go
to England to do the song that Paul and
Linda wrote for Ringo and meeting him
and let me just tell you that they were
the warmest people you could ever
imagine they were so delightful to be
with they welcomed uh Richard and I in
right away he was he was doing a video
for his was his band at the time where
the audience was a bunch of TV screens
uh and yeah you talk about that in the
book yeah and he just invited us on the
set and you know between things he's
over talking to us and you know just
having been with John who was I I can't
say he wasn't friendly as he was more
all business all business yeah just you
know the other two had been much more
friendly and talking to me and whatnot
but John was just like business that was
it and then go to Paul and see what what
he was like as a human being and you
know it's amazing because you can you
know you kind of see how you know the
element if they have the more sardonic
character with the poppier happier guy
goes together kind of reminds me of
another writing team on the Eagles on
the Eagles where you got Henley and Fry
right and they come together I mean solo
they all did great things on solos but
when they came together they made a lot
of good music well the thing about steel
Dan in particular is that they I they
are really uncopyable there's never been
anybody that's been
anywhere close to writing songs you
could never copy their style of
songwriting the the the lyrical style
the vocal delivery of it the the unique
chord structures and then you put all
those session players in there like
everything about it is so unique yeah
including his voice which I'll never
forget the first time he put a rough
vocal down uh on a on a song that he had
enough vocal to do or whatever he came
in and I had it where I thought it
belonged any it turned my voice down and
I went uh I said really you don't like
your voice he said no it's a necessary
evil when did people start using room
drum mics was that a thing of the 80s
then yeah I think pretty much so yeah um
some in excuse me some in the 70s um uh
some in the 70s but like I said that's
the reason I built a studio and my room
sound was
incredible um and uh and the funny thing
about that is people started you know
they heard something good and they'd
think that oh room sound great we'll put
room mics up and uh you probably know
this that a bad room you you'll destroy
the drum sound that's right a great room
it'll amplify and give you something
different yeah and in fact in a great
room with a mediocre drummer that
doesn't know how to tune his drums very
well and hopefully his playing is okay
uh the it can it can sound really give
you something where you know that you
wouldn't get with just the closer mics
but but uh if it's a bad sounding room
it just destroys the when I get songs to
mix and there's room mics half the time
these days or for a long time now if if
no I can do it I can do it with plugins
better than that how fast would these
guys get their sounds up if if Larry
Carlton walks in or Dean parks with
their guitar amp you just put a mic in
front of it and they're pretty much
ready to go they they would get pristine
sounds correct Steve Gad would he come
in and tune his drums right then it yeah
yeah I can't remember I was trying to
think the other day was it a rental set
or did he have him flown out and I I
don't remember I'm pretty sure it was a
rental Set uh cuz I'm pretty sure it was
a rental set but but yeah he tuned his
drums before we started okay Chuck
Rainey ba how would you record Bas back
then was direct direct only or ever ever
an amp or no well that album there was
only direct okay there was no amp during
that time in the 70s people used b15s
that was a common base amp to
use and and uh so would you record a Di
and a B15 at the same time that that and
that would be in an ISO Booth typically
yeah sometimes the studio might have a a
closet specifically you know or a
hallway or something to get the
isolation if they didn't have an actual
room for it would you put compression on
the Bas when you're tracking or was that
something that happened later yeah la
la2a probably it depends on sometimes
1176 you know if the drummer if the
drummer if the bass player uh had a very
even Bas and played very evenly not
necessarily but you know and and when
you talk about these great musicians
like that that's given that's the thing
they know you know what I but you get a
band kind of guy then you might need to
level out a lot you know a lot more and
it moves on into you know so many
records through when you know like uh
through the
80s with the musicians like the Toto
musicians before they were Toto y uh you
know Luca who who thanked me once
because he said I was he was 19 when I
hired him um those guys the thing about
those guys that's so unique is the um
the guys in in the uh 60s The Wrecking
Crew y they by and large charts were put
in front of them and they played yeah
maybe Brian Wilson would go out there
and finesse what they were doing and
maybe other people did too but by and
large it was charts and playing them and
they were all great readers and blah
blah blah you go into the 80s with that
group of musicians and it's a very
different thing they are all arrangers
in their own right they are all AR
Rangers and I have to tell you Rick that
there was nothing better than going in
on a session with those kind of guys and
watching those creative people go
together with no ego and somebody comes
up with an idea that's a great one and
somebody they try it and somebody you
know that's pretty good but what about
this oh let's try that and watching
these guys put this put the track
together yeah because it was by and
large chord charts yeah it was it was
not being told what to do it's
interesting cuz today
for the for that contribution they would
be songwriters on the on the tracks
right nowadays that that's if you
contribute if you took Steve lukather's
part on human nature or you know the his
guitar riff that he did oh well people
would argue for songwriting credit for
something like that because it actually
is really take that out and that muted
guitar part he's playing in the verse
and the lines that he's playing
everything is become incredible
important to the song but this they were
expected to do that Steve said that to
me when I interviewed him we were
expected to be Rangers yeah and it's
interesting without naming any names
there were some really really good
guitar players that didn't have that
gift yeah you know that might not do
what what a Luca would I um Love is the
answer I don't know if you remember that
hit by um uh England Dan and John for
Coley the producer Kyle lenning I I
mixed uh that and he was telling me when
I mixed it that he he was overdubbing
Steve on some other songs on that record
and Steve said you know you got anything
else for me and he said not really he
said well I'll play you this the single
but I think it's done and he played it
for him and Steve said no no no I want
to play on that and if you listen back
to it now there's a guitar part that you
would how how could it have lived
without that guitar part right and he
just put it right in that that's a great
example of that the kind of stuff that
he and a lot of guys would do that kind
of thing how would mixing a record in
the 80s let's say later 80s
differ from the 70s you started having
consoles that would have flying faders
yeah was that a big thing or did you not
like did you not mix on SSL consoles
what what would you do the first was
called knam the first moving fader
system that NE came up with was called
knam y I absolutely hated it the faders
were real stodgy really tough to move
and it wasn't super accurate it really
wasn't you know you you could do that I
don't know if the camera is getting that
you could do that and it would play it
back like that so you know not that you
would do that in a mix but I mean it
just showed you I'll back up for one
second one of the greatest stories I
ever heard about what Steely Dan could
put someone through mixing Elliot told
me this I don't know what album it was
but it was knam so it might have been
Asia they they they loved it because the
the computer you could do what you want
and then they play it back in the
computer did it now I'm here to tell you
that from my standpoint it wasn't
accurate but as long as they think it is
fine that's fine that's fine so on one
pass I don't know if it was Donald or
Walter told Elliot okay Elliot on this
pass and remember they go through the
whole song but on this pass I want you
to put your finger I don't know what
instrument was on that fader and just
think about moving
it now if they had done that to me there
would have been screaming
involved screaming and yelling
you out of your mind I can't even but
anyway so that early system was very
stodgy and I didn't like it whatever
whatever uh later on I built my studio
and and as like I said I mixed you know
uh and I'm extremely uncoordinated
everywhere in this lifetime except on a
console with faders and I it's like you
know it's easy peasy and it just like
works great but when we got to 48 tracks
46 really when we got to tying two 24
tracks together it was time to I needed
help and so absolutely so I bought
George massenberg my good friend
massenberg moving fader system which at
the time was the best one I had to learn
to let it help me because here I was I
really didn't want the help but I now
know I needed it I had to learn to do it
which I did it took a while but I did
learn how to do it and and then it
became my friend and which was very
fortunate because now on Pro Tools uh
you know that's the only way to do it
and so I made the transition very well
and now I'm thrilled with it but yeah so
that's what happened went went to uh SSL
you see when they came out they had they
and that's the re the first reason I
didn't like them I didn't care for the
sound of the early ones the second
reason
was their automation system was all VCA
and meaning internal voltage controlled
amplifiers which the faders didn't move
and I would relate to that right I want
to I want to see what I just did or what
I'm about to do so but even when they
finally came out with moving faders and
I was forced and I was literally
sometimes forced to do a a a mix on an
SSL uh at least now the faders were
moving so it was a little bit better for
me what are the best sounding mic PR
that you historically would use if you
if if you said to me Rick these are the
best Mike PR ever made what what are
they okay we start with the fact that
this Doug Sachs again that one of my
three mentors that I owe so much of my
career to taught me so much about
Electronics uh and how it's implemented
in the audio world and the first thing
is less is more meaning in analog in
yeah in audio and analog audio the less
you go through the more you get out the
other end I took that to the nth degree
when I built the studio with when we
built the console we built the simplest
console so we could build because I knew
that would sound better than anything
you could buy as I always said when I
would give a tour of the studio there's
more amplifiers in one SSL module than
there is in this entire
console uh so it was as simple as it
could be and then the um great sounding
room great tube microphones you get the
most sound out the other end and so what
I always wanted was the purest sound I
started with that studio where I did
Asian hanana with a homemade console
that sounded
excellent and I wanted how do I get the
best of that well Doug as it turns out
uh after that thma record he started
doing more and more design and he
designed line level microphones where
there's no Transformers in them based
off the my favorite microphone of the
251 based off the capsule in that he
also designed which was really his
brother's designed but he designed a
preamp and so in my studio
uh then the those I have I did all the
listening tests for a company called
martek that built a excellent sounding
transistor preamp maybe the purest one
of that and as a thank you for I did all
the listening while they designed the
Transformer they gave me 24 of them and
I had 24 of ma of those 20 uh mastering
lab out in the studio because out in the
studio because line level loses less
than Mike lines do so the microphones so
and the console had two line inputs one
for the tape machine or Protools and the
second one for the line level
microphones which were either the
Sheffield mics or the preamps in the uh
that were out there if you were to ask
me that I would say the the the
mastering lab preamps and because mine
have the other Transformer they're a
little better than the others but those
would be the very very best and again my
criteria was colorless right now if you
want color
and we do my idea was you get them you
know less is more let's get the
colorless we can add the color there's
plenty of boxes or these days uh plugins
that will do that but you can't go the
other way right you can't you can't take
it away can't take it away you you get
whatever you get okay for color what are
things that you like well there's all
kinds you know my gosh where do you
start uh that DW Fern I don't know if
you know their stuff yeah yeah that's
that's he makes some of the most
gorgeous colored stuff but you know all
the old
um all of the old preamps you know from
the 60s that the tube ones with the
incredible Transformers you know you get
all kinds of incredible color like that
so you know there's Myriad okay and
microphones if uh if I said you know
things that were available from the 80s
on or so what are what are the
best uh small diaphragm
condensers the nyman 50 Series 53 which
was Omni 54 which uh is card oid 55
which has a roll off M50 the 50s uh
which are the omnis that everyone uses
almost everyone uses in the DECA tree
for orchestras that whole series uh are
to me the best I had a huge collection
I'm selling them off now but I have a
huge collection of those because I do
believe them to be the best and the
other one that I really love in large
diaphragm uh my two favorites are um the
the tel funkin 251 or the AKG C12 y I
had nine
251s so so many that I don't know if
you've ever seen put them on a drum set
I did okay if you ever look at Jeff
picaro's uh uh instructional video uh I
I had because I had nine I had three of
them padded internally so they could
take the level because stock they
couldn't yeah and they were only allowed
on a very few drummers and on because
you knew he would not hit them exactly
it was only on the vest Pros that I knew
wouldn't hit him and in the
instructional video you see them very
clearly I remember that actually which I
did and uh you know you'll see comments
where they say those aren't real 251s
nobody would do that and I remember I
woke up one day and said you know you're
playing with fire here why you know
anybody could have an accident so I to
had the pads taken out and whatnot okay
so the 251s or the C2 the c12s and what
else and Norman uh the you know I love
the m49 which you know and it's really
funny because not enough Engineers love
that microphone and yet I can't tell you
how many singers that I turned on to it
you know that have their own uh Neil
Diamond Barbara stran huie Lewis they
all have their own m49 and I've always
figured you know it's not as open as
some Engineers might like and I figure
you know it's got a incredible warmth
and presence to it and you know how uh
when you hear your voice recorded it's
that's not how I sound because you don't
have the Resonance of your head that you
hear when you're talking and I think
that when they hear their voice back it
that sounds like them it sounds more
like them and they can relate to it
better but I love that microphone for
that reason you know the u67 and more
over the the
269 um I don't know if you know the
history of that microphone but when
noyman came out with their new large
diaphragm microphone to replace in their
minds the 47 m they changed it to a new
tube they came up with a new amplifier
and everything and everything well when
they showed it to German broad their
country's broadcast company that they
said no you need to do this for us we
want we want you to use the same tube
that's in the 50 Series the little mini
tube the ac701 we want you to use that
and we also want for television we want
remote pattern so that if we want to
change the pattern from cardioid to Omni
to whatever uh somebody can do it off
camera Asos to the 67 which you did that
on on around the microphone and so they
made the
269 uh which there weren't anywhere near
is made but back that other amplifier to
me sounds better than a u67 the u67 is
really good the 269 is a little gooder
those microphones those nyans first of
all the km you know 5354 those
microphones now you've have you gotten
rid of all those bill you still have
some of those M I still have some okay
what about things like if I said one
EQ that that that you know you think is
one of the best eqs outboard eqs made I
guess I'll go with the eqp1a in case
George massenberg watches this uh his
his early early multiband thing that he
did in in Stereo was uh you know was
outstanding yeah but but the ptech
though that the yeah ptech yeah the tube
and again because I mean I'm a huge
believer in tubes with trans producers
speakers microphones there's just
something about them uh and you know are
they as are they as fast as no tubes are
never going to be as fast as as you know
the funny story about that go with
regard to the microphones I did a short
my my break into the business was was uh
Clive Davis giving me a shot and I had
to I went to I had work in the CBS St
had to join the union and worked in the
CBS Studio well the old guys there that
were probably 20 years younger than I am
uh they uh the
u67 uh the u87 had just come out and I
was told that noyman Engineers came over
and presented it to the engineers there
and said you know youa loves this
microphone and d and so when they
checked back with him after several
months the the engineers said the older
guys all said we like the 67 better I
what what were you talking well it just
seems smoother and not as edgy and they
said no no no no this is transistor and
the rise time is much faster than the
tube you are hearing for the first time
what's really going on out in the studio
and they went oh and they continued to
use the
67 because I'm sorry it sounds better
and it does uh but yes you know so yeah
rise time you know same thing with power
amps you know you know a tube Power Amp
it might not be as fast on the the
bottom you know whatever but it's still
you know anyway I'm a big fan of to and
what about compressor what's the what's
your favorite compressor boy that's
that's a lot tougher for me um because
you know well the go-to would have to
still be if you on an island and you
could only take one I would have to
still probably take the la2a it'd be a
toss it between that and 1176 but uh but
if I was on a desert island I probably
wouldn't be pushing all four buttons in
to get it to distort on the drums would
I so yeah l2a probably I just go with
tried and true and who's the loudest
singer you ever recorded I don't know
her name it was a girl that was 17 years
old uh and it was Abraham laborel the
bass player yeah it was a family friend
that was trying to get into uh uh I
don't I might it might have been juliart
I don't know but as an opera singer okay
and I cannot tell you what was coming
out of that little girl's mouth
interesting question what was the
loudest well I'm just wondering you know
how loud some of these singers are is
Barbara strand a loud singer no not at
all and what Mike is a is a great M like
I said she has her own now and what will
Donald Fagan sing through I don't know
because I didn't do the vocals so I
don't know what he liked what do you
think of uh of SM SS for radio right no
that's an excellent you know I this is
gets you know and for for me this gets
used a lot for rock singers I use it all
the time yeah absolutely and uh best
all-around microphone is there one I
don't you know I wouldn't know how to
answer that there it's sm57 I I'd rather
have this than okay because a 57 doesn't
sound that good on a voice right but
this does Bill it's such a pleasure to
have you here check out Bill's book
chairman at the board It's a Wonderful
book and uh has such interesting stories
in it and uh I really appreciate you
spending the time I love telling stories
in fact at one point in my life um I had
a previous wife and I went through the
divorce and I had just mixed um up where
we belong the song of that song and
Taylor hackford was the director and uh
I I mixed the song for him and uh I
thought you know i' maybe going through
the divorce and everything maybe I
should I always thought maybe I could
direct movies CU I love telling stories
and I lik all the mechanical things and
uh so I I I talked to him on the phone
afterwards and I said you know I would
love to ghost you sometime you know on a
movie from as much as you'll let me be
there and he said well let me think
about it never heard from him
again so back to back to music well Bill
thank you so much really appreciate it
it's been my pleasure and honor to be
here thanks
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