I Was Never Meant to Have This Prototype CPU
Summary
TLDRThe video script discusses the Centaur CPU, a prototype x86 processor that fits into an Intel socket but is not compatible with Intel CPUs. It delves into the history of Centaur Technology, founded in 1995, and its struggle against the x86 duopoly of Intel and AMD. The Centaur CPU, also known as 'Centaur Halls' or 'CHA', features an integrated system with up to eight cores, AVX-512 support, and an onboard AI accelerator named 'Encor'. Despite its innovative features, the CPU faced stiff competition from established players and emerging technologies like GPUs and AI accelerator cards. The video also explores the technical aspects of the CPU, its performance in various tests, and the challenges it encountered in the market. By 2021, much of Centaur's engineering staff was sold to Intel, leaving behind a legacy of an innovative but ultimately uncompetitive product in a rapidly evolving industry.
Takeaways
- 🧩 The Centaur CPU is a prototype x86 CPU that is not made by Intel or AMD and is physically compatible but electrically incompatible with an Intel socket on the motherboard.
- 🔍 The motherboard features an Intel socket LGA 2011 V3 but should not have an Intel CPU inserted, indicating a physical similarity but fundamental differences in electrical signaling.
- 🛠️ The development platform board is covered in jumpers and dip switches, allowing for changes in the CPU's characteristics or the motherboard's behavior for testing purposes.
- 🔗 The CPU is highly integrated, lacking a platform controller hub and including features like USB, SATA, networking, and PCI Express switching.
- 🏷️ The CPU was manufactured by Kodiak Assembly in September 2019, indicating a relatively recent production date.
- 🌐 Centaur Technology was founded in 1995 to create low-cost, energy-efficient CPUs for the sub $1,000 PC market, initially achieving some success.
- 📈 The Centaur HALLs (CHA) is an SoC with up to eight cores and features like AVX-512 support and an onboard AI accelerator named Encor.
- 🚀 Despite its innovative features, the Centaur CPU faced significant competition from established players like Intel and AMD, as well as the rise of GPUs and AI accelerator cards.
- 🛢️ The CPU's performance was underwhelming, with benchmarks showing it to be significantly slower than contemporary CPUs, even when trying to emulate more modern processors.
- 🔄 The CPU's development timeline suggests it was in development up until 2021, with BIOS build dates indicating ongoing work.
- ❌ By 2019, the market conditions had shifted, making the Centaur CPU's proposition less viable, and by 2021, much of Centaur's engineering staff was sold to Intel.
Q & A
What is a Centaur CPU?
-A Centaur CPU is a prototype x86 CPU developed by Centaur Technology, a subsidiary of VIA Technologies. It is not made by Intel or AMD and is designed to fit into an Intel socket on a motherboard that is electrically incompatible with Intel CPUs.
Why was the Centaur CPU created?
-Centaur Technology was founded to build a low-complexity, low-cost, energy-efficient desktop CPU for the sub $1,000 PC market. The concept was to offer adequate performance at a smaller size compared to contemporary Pentium class CPUs.
What is unique about the motherboard discussed in the script?
-The motherboard has an Intel socket LGA 2011 V3 but is electrically incompatible with Intel CPUs. It is covered in jumpers and dip switches, indicating it is a development platform board, allowing changes to the CPU or motherboard behavior for testing purposes.
What is the significance of the onboard AI accelerator Encor in the Centaur CPU?
-The onboard AI accelerator Encor is designed to provide a high-speed, bidirectional connection to the CPU itself, offering more bandwidth than a PCIe Gen 6 x16 slot. It was intended to be a key feature for the platform, facilitating quick access to the CPU's level three cache and system memory.
Why did the Centaur Halls CPU not succeed in the market?
-The Centaur Halls CPU faced significant competition from established products like Intel's Xeon and AMD's EPYC, as well as the rise of GPUs and AI accelerator cards for machine learning tasks. Additionally, the industry moved too fast, and the performance offered by Centaur Halls was not competitive by the time it was close to launch.
What is the role of the QR code and Kodiak assembly mentioned in the script?
-The QR code and Kodiak assembly sticker provide manufacturing information about the board. Kodiak assembly is a company that offers PCB assembly and other fabrication services, and the date on the sticker indicates the board was manufactured in September 2019.
How does the Centaur CPU's performance compare to contemporary CPUs?
-The Centaur CPU's performance is significantly lower than that of contemporary CPUs. For instance, its Cinebench R20 score is less than half of what a Ryzen 7 1700X, released seven years prior, achieved.
What is the purpose of the fuses in the Centaur CPU?
-The fuses in the Centaur CPU can lock functionality such as instruction sets or CPU cache. This allows for the creation of a lower-end chip from a higher-end chip by 'blowing' or disabling certain parts of the chip.
What is the significance of the USB-C port on the Centaur CPU's motherboard?
-The USB-C port on the motherboard likely connects to some kind of hardware interface or another PC for diagnostic and development purposes. It is also functional as a standard USB-C port for peripheral connections.
Why did Intel and VIA Technologies have legal disputes over the years?
-Intel and VIA Technologies had legal disputes over chipset patents in the 1990s and again in 2001 for x86 patent infringement. VIA counter-sued for the infringement of Centaur's patents. They settled in 2003 with a cross-licensing agreement that included conditions on VIA's x86 CPU compatibility.
What does the term 'Concluder' refer to in the context of the Centaur CPU?
-The 'Concluder' is a feature that allows the CPU to change its CPU ID to a different model, potentially misleading software into thinking it's a different, possibly higher-performing or feature-supported CPU.
Outlines
🤖 Introduction to Centaur CPU and Mysterious Motherboard
The video begins with an exploration of a unique CPU, the Centaur, which is not manufactured by Intel or AMD and is a prototype x86 CPU. The motherboard it fits into has an Intel socket LGA 2011 V3 but is electrically incompatible with Intel CPUs. The board is covered in jumpers and dip switches, indicating it's a development platform. It has a highly integrated System on Chip (SoC) design, lacking a platform controller hub, and includes an onboard AI accelerator named Encor. The video also mentions the history of Centaur Technology, founded in 1995, and its efforts to create low-cost, energy-efficient CPUs. The company faced legal challenges from Intel and was eventually acquired by VIA Technologies. The video ends with a teaser about the mysterious nature of the CPU and the motherboard.
🔍 Deep Dive into the Centaur CPU's Features and Development
This segment delves deeper into the technical specifications of the Centaur CPU, also known as Centaur Halls or CHA. It's revealed to be an SoC with up to eight cores, capable of 2.5 GHz operation, and supports AVX-512. The onboard AI accelerator, Encor, is highlighted for its high-speed connection to the CPU. Despite its innovative features, the CPU faced significant competition from established players like Intel and AMD, as well as the rise of GPUs and AI accelerator cards. The video also discusses the CPU's development timeline, BIOS build date, and the various settings and fuses that can alter its functionality. The narrator expresses amazement at the CPU's capabilities and the extent of its development, noting that work on the platform continued until 2021.
🖥️ Testing the Centaur CPU's Performance and Compatibility
The video moves on to testing the Centaur CPU's performance by booting into Windows 10 and running various benchmarks and applications. The CPU is found to perform modestly, with CPU-Z providing detailed information about the chip. There's a humorous moment where the CPU ID is artificially changed to mimic an Intel Skylake X processor, causing applications to misreport their compatibility. The narrator also explores the functionality of the USB-C port and the system's ability to run light games, although performance is noted to be laggy. The segment ends with a discussion about the CPU's place in the market and the challenges it faced.
🏭 Historical Context and the Decline of Centaur Technology
This part of the video provides a historical context for Centaur Technology's place in the CPU market. It discusses the company's final commercial release, the Via Nano X2, and the challenges it faced due to Intel's patent cross-licensing deal and the rise of embedded x86 systems. The video also covers the Xiaan joint venture and the announcement of the CHA SoC in 2019. Despite its promising price point, the CPU faced stiff competition from Intel's and AMD's offerings, as well as the growing dominance of GPUs in machine learning tasks. The segment concludes with speculation about Intel's potential involvement in the cancellation of the Centaur Halls project.
🛠️ Conclusion and Sponsor Mention
The final paragraph wraps up the video with a reflection on the Centaur Halls CPU as a 'missing link' between Centaur's historical chips and the current state of the company. It also raises questions about the future of Centaur's intellectual property following the sale of its engineering staff to Intel. The video concludes with a sponsorship message for iFixit, which provides parts and guides for repairing and upgrading gaming consoles, encouraging viewers to reduce e-waste by repairing their devices rather than replacing them.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Centaur CPU
💡Motherboard
💡Development Platform
💡AI Accelerator
💡AVX-512
💡CPU ID Fusing
💡PCI Express (PCIe)
💡CPU Benchmarking
💡Linux Compatibility
💡Intel Socket LGA 2011 V3
💡iFixit
Highlights
Centaur technology is a prototype x86 CPU not manufactured by Intel or AMD.
The motherboard features an Intel socket LGA 2011 V3 but is electrically incompatible with Intel CPUs.
The development platform board is covered in jumpers and dip switches, indicating its use for testing various CPU and motherboard behaviors.
The CPU is highly integrated, resembling a Threadripper in that it lacks a platform controller hub.
The CPU has an onboard AI accelerator named Encor, providing high-speed access to the CPU's cache and system memory.
Centaur Technology was founded in 1995 to create low-cost, energy-efficient CPUs for the sub $1,000 PC market.
Centaur's win chip found modest success in markets outside the US.
The Centaur CPU supports AVX-512, similar to AMD's recent Zen 4 architecture.
The BIOS build date is from 2021, indicating active development two and a half years prior.
The CPU can be configured with fuses to lock functionality, allowing for different chip variants from a single high-end chip.
CPU configuration allows changing the CPU ID to misreport the CPU model to software.
The CPU's performance in Cinebench R20 is significantly lower than that of a 7-year-old Ryzen 7 1700X.
Centaur's engineering staff was sold to Intel in 2021, raising questions about Intel's involvement in the cancellation of Centaur Halls.
The Centaur CPU faced strong competition from Intel's Cascade Lake, Intel's Ice Lake, and AMD's EPYC processors.
The Centaur CPU was an idea ahead of its time but failed to keep up with the rapid advancements in the industry.
The CPU is capable of functioning in Windows 10, despite initial difficulties with firmware TPM and module compatibility.
The CPU's Linux support was less reliable than its Windows support, which is unusual for hardware of this nature.
The final commercially released design from Centaur was the Via Nano X2, code-named Isaiah, back in 2011.
Transcripts
HR needs you to tell the difference
between these two chips nothing how
about now what is a centaur CPU I mean
it certainly isn't the kind of thing
you'd find on new eggs or how'd we get
our hands on one I can't tell you that
but what I can tell you is that it is a
prototype x86 CPU that fits into an
Intel socket on this motherboard that
doesn't work with an Intel CPU it's not
made by Intel or AMD for that matter and
while it doesn't have much in common
physically with a mythical Beast it very
much is one just like our beastly
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[Music]
we're going to get to who Centaur is in
a moment but first what is up with this
motherboard it's got an Intel socket LGA
2011 V3 to be exact but we were told by
our anonymous source that you should not
put an Intel CPU in it so it's
physically the same but electrically
completely incompatible kind of like
when you see a USB port that's labeled
rs232 they've just reused the housing
and the pins in order to save time and
cost but all the signal in is completely
different I have never seen that done
with a CPU socket though and the
motherboard it soldered to is a trip
there's normal stuff you got what
appears to be a quad Channel memory
configuration just like we saw on the
Intel CPUs that used this socket
standard PC power inputs PCI Express
expansion slots couple m.2 storage slots
those were showing up on Intel around
this time as well but as we dig deeper
it is absolutely covered in jumpers and
dip switches and that is an indication
that this is a development platform
board so with these which I've been
instructed not to touch you can actually
change the characteristics of either the
CPU itself or the behavior of the
motherboard depending on what you're
trying to test this was a weird one for
me too it's actually got one of those
gamery segmented audio sub pcbs with a
CD audio connector okay now hold on a
second we need to take a closer look at
this moving along the bottom we've got a
USBC Port not a header an actual Port so
that probably connects either to some
kind of Hardware interface or another PC
for Diagnostic and development purposes
and then back to the front I've been
told that I should take the heat sink
off of here guess we'll put you back
later and have a look at this guy zx200
what are you interesting
USB SATA networking and PCI Express
switching that's about it it and what
that means is that this CPU is a highly
integrated s so without the platform
controller Hub that you would find on an
Intel motherboard of this generation so
it's more like a thread ripper in our
search for identifying marks we found
some cool stuff there's a bunch of probe
points on this board which are Super
useful for developers when they're
trying to figure out what's going on
with power delivery or on the various
buses and we found this little label
ch001 DC next to the Centaur Tech
technology logo and maybe more
importantly this sticker the QR code
doesn't go anywhere but Kodiak assembly
is a company that provides PCB assembly
and other fabrication services and this
date has this board manufactured in
September of 2019 that is not that long
ago most PCS these days and really for
almost the last 25 years use CPUs from
AMD and Intel a duopoly that they
maintain by refusing to license the x86
instruction set to any other part
but there is another sentaur technology
was founded in 1995 as a subsidiary of
IDT by former IBM fellow Glenn Henry to
do what IBM didn't do and the concept
was simple a small team building a low
complexity lowcost energy efficient
desktop CPU for the then new sub $1,000
PC market this became the win chip and
it was modestly successful mostly in
Market markets outside of the US
offering adequate performance at half of
the size of a contemporary Pentium class
CPU unfortunately Intel took notice and
did what Intel did best in the 9s and
absolutely crushed them centaur was
ultimately acquired then alongside cyrix
by via Technologies in
1999 their next CPU the cyx 3 found
little Commercial Success on the desktop
but in embedded systems it was so
popular that many ITX was developed
specifically to show off its successor
the C3 Now intel who had already sued
via over chipset patents in the 90s sued
via again in 2001 for x86 patent
infringement and Via counter sued for
the infringement of centaur's patents
ultimately they both settled in 2003
with a 10-year cross- licensing
agreement that stipulated that via /
Centaur could continue creating x86
designs as long as they were not in any
way compatible with Intel chipsets a fun
bit of trivia here is via used to make
motherboard chipsets and the settlement
gave them until 2017 to stop doing that
for Intel chips so that explains how
Centaur got away with building an x86
CPU but it doesn't explain why they
built it and to find that out we've got
to take a closer look at what it is
starting with what it's not it's not a
CPU it's an S so code named Centaur
halls or cha that's why our motherboard
has no chipset on it it's all on the
chip itself it's got up to eight cores
clocked it up to 2.5 GHz though 2.0 is
stock on our chip and it supports AVX
512 kind of like AMD has done on their
most recent Zen 4 architecture in such a
way that it doesn't require the chip to
be downclocked like intels did at the
time the biggest piece though is an
onboard AI accelerator code named encor
it added essentially no cost but it
could access the cpu's level three cache
and system memory extremely quickly it
was meant to be the killer app for this
platform with an extremely high-speed
bidirectional 160 gab pers second
connection to the CPU itself that's more
bandwidth than a pcie Gen 6 by6 slot
unfortunately while their idea for a
lowcost AI accelerated platform was
pretty well timed the actual execution
well not so much we'll get into that a
little bit later first did I tell you
this thing works let's fire it
[Music]
up even the fact they got as far as
silicon power on means they were deep
into development of this platform like
real work was done and that is
mindblowing the BIOS build date is
2021 guys that is 2 and 1/2 years ago
they were still developing for this
thing and just 2 months before Intel
purchased centaur's engineering staff
from via man I feel like a kid who just
got dropped off at the playground what
do I go on first the monkey bars or the
marryg go round now because this is a
debug board there's a lot of items that
go nowhere and do nothing but there's
some really cool stuff in here oh did it
just turn off it sure did it did um
uh what I mean what all is there for us
to play with here CPU configuration
there's our 2 GHz clock speed oh
nonfused CPU ah fuses apparently there's
a whole bunch of fuses that we can blow
in here and if you're not familiar fuses
can lock functionality like uh
instruction sets or even uh CPU cache
and that's one of the ways that we get a
lower-end chip from a higher end chip so
theoretically they could put a top speec
chip in a board like this one blow up
the parts they don't need and end up
with any chip from the lineup the
concluder now hold on a sec if I'm
understanding this correctly it changes
the CPU ID to be whatever it is that I
tell it to be Intel probably wouldn't
like this for AVX
512 that would have been really useful
for this kind of application I wonder if
this thing's a PlayStation 3 emulation
monster demo board is just onboard land
enable disable I guess they hadn't put
it in the proper category yet this is
surprisingly robust and finished looking
PCI Gen 2 only though this was toward
the very end of pcie gen 2's life cycle
this is really important setting Dam
timings because oh my God those default
timings I can see why you had to put it
all in manually for now we're going to
leave all of this alone including the
ever so tempting the concluder button
and let Windows see the real deal while
we wait for it to boot by the way you
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we're in Windows the first thing you'll
probably notice is we're running Windows
10 that's cuz there's no firmware TPM
and no module that we were able able to
easily find for the header that's on the
board so Windows 10 then uh we could try
to bypass the lock for Windows 11 but
I've been told realistically the
system's slow enough on 10 steam 100%
the CPU easily when downloading at I
mean let's do a quick speed test there
it is 2 GHz at super super slow timings
we'll get these tweaked we'll get these
tweaked before we do any oh my
God sorry I was about to say performance
testing but I guess I mean lack of
performance testing 350
megabit that is not fast this is cool
though it knows that it's Centaur
technology even has the right code name
it is often amazing to me how much
information something like a CPU Z is
able to pull off of Hardware that in the
wild doesn't exist in the mainboard tab
we see the chipset is made by Jin that's
name that's going to come up later also
PCI Express 3.0 now wait a second it
said pcie Gen 2 in the Bios but the bus
spec say gen 3 here honestly I would
trust CPU Z over that janky bios and gen
3 makes way more sense for that time
period because we were on the cusp of
Gen 4 by that point enough fooling
around for now though Emily's going to
get this thing dialed in and we're going
to do some performance testing and
sometime later we're going to have an
exclusive over at lm. g/f flat plane of
Emily going through everything that was
changed we've got there we go that's
more like it and I can drag a window
around now yes without it lagging behind
me I guess the first thing I want to do
is run C bench R20 look at this I'm on
the internet on a centaur loads the way
you'd expect I mean it's x86
right there's some differences but but
but mostly that is not
fast 3 hours later almost there
1660 to put that in context the ryzen 7
1700x which was not even the top
performing ship at the time came out 7
years ago and is more than double that
score I'm afraid to see what's going to
happen in gaming I'm afraid to see what
a single core run would look like how
many points was
that no no points I bet we can gain
though we'll just play older games
lighter games play Dave the diver
oh my goodness and this isn't even
because it has a mechanical hard drive
in it this is just how fast it
is I mean In fairness it does work our
next game is Doug hug which was created
as a prank I guess to generate fake
outrage around the time of the launch of
Duke Nukem Forever and uh they said they
would do it 13 years ago and actually
followed through here it is in 2024 it's
time to generate some some positivity
cuz games are just too negative
this there are sharks in the sky Let's
help this granny across the street shall
we here we go mimo let's go let's go
let's go let's go let's go come on pick
up the pace
lady yeah okay she'll make it I can't
stop frown I think it's some kind of
turn that frown upside down that's not
the same voice actor as Duke Nukem is it
it is that is John St John oh now is the
perfect opportunity to find out if that
USBC Port is in fact a functioning USBC
Port can I plug a controller into it yes
now that doesn't mean that it isn't for
Diagnostics it very likely is but it
also just happens to be a USBC Port it's
a super cool game it's a Rog light
hockey game you go on a campaign to
restore hockey to its former glory uh
there's all kinds of cool upgrades like
you can throw your stick at opponent you
can fart and push them away so they
can't body check you pretty fun and with
the latest beta supports five player
local multiplayer so you can have every
player on your team be human controlled
just don't lose a game or your
campaign's over hey look at this in the
lightest possible games we can get 150
frames per second no problem
buddy here we go here we go here we go
let's go come
on you know what it feels pretty laggy
though I'm not not going to lie it does
not feel like 150 frames per second the
point is other than being slow there's
nothing that really sets this thing
apart from any other computer that I've
used it works try C bench 2024 no
avx2 I know where we're going with this
I'm going to pretend to be a different
CPU now right that is where the
concluder comes in as far as we can tell
some applications instead of checking
the instruction set support are just
checking a list of I don't know CPU
models that are known to support the
instruction set and if you don't happen
to have it they're just spitting out an
error and cinebench 24 would be one of
them cuz according to CPU Z the CPU does
in fact support avx2 but I guess we're
about to find out if we artificially
change the reporting ID to Skylake X
will it run I mean probably won't run
but it might walk oh that's hilarious oh
Intel would would not be happy about
this it even shows an Intel logo it even
misreports does it even misreport the
socket that's super weird oh my God this
cor speed okay it has no idea what's
going on why does it say PCI E Gen 4 now
there's no way that's right hold on a
second what is our GPU reporting oh this
is fascinating no it's gen 3 wait but it
report it reports a bus interface of Gen
4 is it Gen 4 not my
knowledge yes no no what and of course C
bench 2024 totally launches in an effort
to get the end core neural processor
working we fired up Linux as well but we
had even more problems in Linux than we
did in Windows it takes forever to boot
the desktop is even laggier and our pcie
devices seem to run at incorrect speeds
also no public driver seems to exist for
the encor so we weren't able to test it
and the fonics test Suite takes forever
just to download let alone to run with
how customizable Linux is I think this
is one of if not the first time that
we've had some weird esoteric piece of
Hardware that works less completely or
less reliably on Linux than it does on
Windows but hey even Champions have bad
days all of which is interesting but
doesn't answer our big questions how did
this come to be and why Why didn't it
get over the Finish Line in order to
answer that we've got to do a little bit
of a history lesson the final
commercially released design from
centaur was the Via Nano X2 code name
Isaiah that came out back in 2011 and
was a dual core chip meant for Pico ITX
systems and meant to compete with Intel
atom now in the 2010s pretty much
everyone Intel included saw the writing
on the wall for embedded x86 not to
mention that via's patent cross license
deal with Intel with which included the
x86 license was only guaranteed until
2013 so that same year then via started
the xiaan joint venture with the
Shanghai municipal government where s
so's would be developed for the Chinese
market where uh pesky things like IP
licensing deals don't matter quite as
much but in spite of their obvious
attempts to safeguard their future by
investing in China they weren't out of
the global market just yet in 2014
rumors circulated of a Poss Centaur x86
SL arm hybrid project but nothing came
of it and then in 2019 they announced
the cha the S so that we're looking at
today the idea was that it would be
positioned against Intel's Zeon CPUs at
an estimated price of just $500 to
$1,000 which sounds like a pretty
compelling story but the headwinds were
many and they were Mighty in 2019 alone
Intel's lowcost Cascade Lake launched
Intel's high-end ice Lake SB was due to
launch and amd's epic Ram launched with
Incredible core counts that absolutely
dwarfed what Centaur Halls was expected
to deliver in the second half of 2020
not only that but gpus and AI
accelerator cards had already taken over
the task of machine learning from the
CPU and the performance was not even
close don't believe me ask Jensen hang's
accountant nvidia's Tesla T4 which was a
downclocked RTX 2070 super was 2 $2,000
in 2019 which is a lot more than one of
these but absolutely Stomps all over the
end course performance even with an
older four core Skylake CPU that cost
only
$213 so generously if we assume that
Centaur Halls launched at $500 that Zeon
plus T4 combo is 4 and half times the
price for four to five times the
performance which actually sounds pretty
reasonable until you consider that going
the other route you'd get a platform
from a company that's launched more than
one commercial chip in the past 8 years
you could use Cuda so you have broader
compatibility and you can throw consumer
gpus in these things for a lower price
too so yeah they had a good idea for
2017 but by 2019 the industry was just
moving too fast for it to make any sense
and by 2021 much of centaur's
engineering was sold over to Intel
leaving via with mainly just Cent
intellectual property which kind of
makes you wonder if intel had a hand in
Centaur Halls cancellation Centaur Halls
was as far as we know the final s so
designed in-house by Centaur and much of
its DNA is actually shared with the Xian
chips like the one that we looked at
some time ago which makes it kind of a
missing link between where xia Shin is
today and the Isaiah based via Nano and
unfortunately that's all it is a missing
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down below if you guys enjoyed this
video why not check out the one where we
looked at one of those xiaosen CPUs at
the time we were looking at it going how
did these guys get an x86 license and
well they kind of didn't I guess
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