Michael Cohen told me Stormy payment was 'his idea': ex-adviser
Summary
TLDRIn a courtroom discussion, former legal advisor Robert Costello shares insights on Michael Cohen's case involving President Trump. Costello, who testified before a grand jury, alleges that the grand jury was not shown all exculpatory evidence and that Cohen repeatedly claimed to have no incriminating information on Trump. He suggests Cohen's current testimony may be driven by revenge and monetization, rather than truth, and speculates that Cohen's desire to avoid jail and his disappointment at not joining Trump's Washington team could be influencing his actions. The conversation also touches on the potential bias of a New York jury and the strategic use of evidence in the trial.
Takeaways
- π¨ββοΈ The judge has taken the bench and proceedings are underway with Michael Cohen present in the courtroom.
- π§ The judge is addressing scheduling matters and reporters are sending emails from inside the courtroom.
- ποΈ Robert Costello, a former legal advisor to Michael Cohen, is being interviewed about his experiences and insights into the case.
- π£οΈ Costello testified before Congress and the grand jury, sharing that Cohen told him he had nothing on Donald Trump.
- π« Costello expressed frustration with the grand jury process, stating that he felt the DA's office was selective in the evidence presented.
- π He emphasized the importance of the grand jury seeing all relevant documents in chronological order to understand the full context.
- πΌ Cohen's handling of the Stormy Daniels NDA was discussed, with Costello stating that Cohen claimed it was his idea to handle the situation to avoid embarrassment for Melania Trump.
- π¬ Cohen's change in narrative over time is highlighted, with Costello suggesting that Cohen's current testimony may not align with what he said in 2018 when he was desperate and suicidal.
- π€ Costello speculates that the jury might be influenced by local sentiments against Trump, but also believes that the evidence does not support Cohen's claims.
- ποΈ The discussion touches on the absence of Allen Weisselberg, Trump's long-time accountant, from the witness list, suggesting that his testimony might not be beneficial to the prosecution.
- π Costello shares an email exchange indicating that he was acting as a back channel of communication between Cohen and Giuliani, which Cohen misrepresented in his testimony.
Q & A
What is the main topic of the trial discussed in the script?
-The main topic of the trial discussed in the script is related to a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) involving Donald Trump and Stormy Daniels, which is being contested on the grounds that it is not a crime.
Who is Robert Costello and what is his relevance to the case?
-Robert Costello is a former legal advisor to Michael Cohen. He represented Cohen at the start of the federal investigation and is now able to discuss the case due to being released from his attorney/client confidentiality agreement.
What did Robert Costello do before testifying before the grand jury?
-Before testifying before the grand jury, Robert Costello gave Alvin Bragg's assistant D.A.s an hour and a half Zoom conference where he shared all of the exculpatory material he had, which they were supposed to present to the grand jury.
Why did Michael Cohen initially take out a home equity loan?
-Michael Cohen took out a home equity loan for $130,000 to handle the NDA with Stormy Daniels because he did not want Melania Trump or his own wife to know about it, as per his statement to Robert Costello.
What was Robert Costello's experience with the grand jury's questioning?
-Robert Costello felt that the questions asked by the grand jury were not going to elicit the exculpatory information he had provided. He expanded upon his answers, and the D.A.'s office tried to shut him down, which he resisted.
What did Robert Costello advise the grand jury to do regarding the documents he presented?
-Robert Costello advised the grand jury to demand to see all the documents in chronological order to get a real view of Michael Cohen's actions and to question why certain documents were being withheld from them.
What was Michael Cohen's response when Robert Costello suggested he should cooperate with the investigation if he had truthful information on Donald Trump?
-Michael Cohen repeatedly stated that he did not have anything on Donald Trump and was desperate for an escape route, but he did not take the opportunity to cooperate with truthful information against Donald Trump.
Why did Michael Cohen plead guilty to eight counts?
-Michael Cohen pleaded guilty to eight counts, seven of which had nothing to do with Donald Trump. He later attempted to cooperate by making false claims to the U.S. Attorney's Office, which were disproven by the evidence Robert Costello had.
What is the significance of the checks signed by Donald Trump in the context of this trial?
-The fact that Donald Trump signed the checks is not significant in proving any wrongdoing, according to Robert Costello. He believes that the checks are standard business practice and do not indicate any illegal activity.
What is Robert Costello's opinion on why Allen Weisselberg has not been a witness in the case so far?
-Robert Costello suggests that if Allen Weisselberg had information helpful to the District Attorney, he would have been brought to testify. The fact that he has not been called suggests that his information may not be helpful to the prosecution's case.
What does Robert Costello believe about Michael Cohen's current motivation?
-Robert Costello believes that Michael Cohen's motivation now is driven by revenge and the desire to monetize his situation by selling books and other items, as well as gaining attention and support from anti-Trump individuals.
Why does Robert Costello think Michael Cohen was telling the truth in 2018?
-Costello believes Cohen was telling the truth in 2018 because he was desperate and looking for a way out, which would have been to cooperate against Trump if he had truthful information. However, Cohen repeatedly stated he had nothing on Trump.
What was Michael Cohen's expectation if he went to Washington, D.C. with Donald Trump?
-Michael Cohen expected that he could become the Attorney General of the United States or at least the Chief of Staff to the President, indicating his disappointment when he was left behind in New York.
Outlines
π Grand Jury Testimony and Cohen's Alleged Lack of Evidence on Trump
The paragraph discusses Robert Costello's experience testifying before a grand jury, where he claims to have presented exculpatory evidence regarding Michael Cohen's dealings with Donald Trump. Costello, a former legal advisor to Cohen, alleges that the grand jury was not shown all the evidence he provided, which included emails and text messages. He suggests that the prosecution selectively used evidence and that he advised the grand jury to demand to see all documents in chronological order. Costello also recounts his interactions with Cohen, who insisted multiple times that he had no incriminating information on Trump. The paragraph ends with Costello's assertion that the trial is about something that is not a crime.
π€ Cohen's Independent Actions and the Stormy Daniels NDA
This section delves into the specifics of the non-disclosure agreement (NDA) involving Stormy Daniels. Costello explains that Cohen independently decided to handle the NDA situation, taking out a home equity loan to cover the costs without the knowledge of his wife or Melania Trump. Cohen allegedly told Costello that he did not believe Daniels' allegations but found the potential claim embarrassing and chose to address it himself. The paragraph also touches on Cohen's subsequent legal troubles and his attempts to cooperate with authorities by making false claims against Giuliani and others, which were later dismissed.
π The Role of Allen Weisselberg and Cohen's Testimony
The focus shifts to Allen Weisselberg, the long-time accountant for the Trump Organization, and questions why he has not been a witness in the case. Costello suggests that Weisselberg may not have information that would be beneficial to the prosecution. The discussion also addresses the nature of the charges against Trump and the inclusion of irrelevant details in the case. Costello expresses his opinion that the Trump-signed checks should not be considered significant evidence and predicts potential outcomes of the trial, including the possibility of a hung jury due to the political climate in New York City.
π¬ Back Channel Communications and Cohen's Changing Narrative
This paragraph examines the role of Costello as a back channel of communication between Michael Cohen and Donald Trump's legal team. It includes an email exchange that shows Giuliani's awareness of the situation and his request to keep lines of communication open. Costello clarifies that the term 'back channel' was used by Giuliani and not himself, emphasizing that there was nothing sneaky about their communication. The paragraph also addresses Cohen's changing story and his current motivations, suggesting that Cohen is now seeking revenge and monetization through his anti-Trump stance.
π΅οΈββοΈ Cohen's Testimony and Motivations
The final paragraph discusses Cohen's testimony in court and questions his truthfulness. Costello believes that Cohen's 2018 statements were more likely to be true, given his desperate state at the time. He contrasts this with Cohen's current well-rehearsed testimony and suggests that Cohen may have been lying during his initial interactions with Costello. The paragraph concludes with speculation on Cohen's motivations, including his desire for revenge and recognition, as well as the financial benefits he may be gaining from his anti-Trump activities.
Mindmap
Keywords
π‘Side Bar
π‘Attorney-Client Privilege
π‘Grand Jury
π‘Exculpatory Evidence
π‘Hearsay
π‘Business Records Exception
π‘Non-Disclosure Agreement (NDA)
π‘Perjury
π‘Revenge
π‘Trump Derangement Syndrome
π‘Back Channel
Highlights
Bill initiates the discussion by setting the scene and mentioning the presence of the judge and Merchan, indicating the start of a significant legal proceeding.
Robert Costello, a former legal advisor to Michael Cohen, is brought in to provide insights, highlighting his relevance due to his past representation and current freedom from attorney-client confidentiality.
Costello reveals that he had provided exculpatory material to the Assistant D.A.s before testifying, which he believes was not adequately presented to the grand jury.
He describes his experience before the grand jury, where he felt the questions were not designed to elicit the exculpatory information he had, leading him to expand on his answers.
Costello details his interaction with the D.A.'s office during his grand jury testimony, where he insisted on not being interrupted and advocated for the presentation of all evidence.
He emphasizes the importance of business records as an exception to the hearsay rule and urges the grand jury to demand all documents for a comprehensive view.
Costello questions why certain documents were withheld from the grand jury and suggests that there might be an attempt to hide information.
He recounts his first meeting with Michael Cohen and explains the legality of non-disclosure agreements (NDAs), countering Cohen's fears.
Costello describes Cohen's state of mind during their initial interactions, including his suicidal tendencies and desperation for an escape route.
Cohen's insistence on having nothing on Donald Trump is highlighted, with Costello recounting multiple denials of any wrongdoing or possession of incriminating information.
Details of Cohen's handling of the Stormy Daniels NDA are provided, including his personal financial decisions and motivations.
Costello disputes Cohen's later claims of conspiracy, presenting evidence from emails and text messages that contradict Cohen's testimony.
He discusses the process that led to Cohen's decision not to cooperate with the U.S. Attorney's Office and the subsequent consequences.
Costello's perspective on why Allen Weisselberg has not been a witness in the case, suggesting that his testimony might not be beneficial to the prosecution.
The discussion touches on the significance of Donald Trump's signature on checks in relation to the case and the potential impact on the jury.
Costello shares his views on the jury composition and the potential bias against Donald Trump, given the political climate in New York City.
He addresses the concept of 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' and its potential influence on the jury's decision-making process.
Costello speculates on Cohen's motivations for his actions and statements, including the publication of his book 'Revenge' and his pursuit of financial gain.
The conversation concludes with Costello's belief that Cohen was truthful in their 2018 interactions and his assessment of Cohen's current mindset and motivations.
Transcripts
>> Bill: LET'S GET THIS GOING
NOW.
THE JUDGE IS ON THE BENCH.
MERCHAN IS IN THERE.
GETTING EMAILS FROM REPORTERS
INSIDE THE COURTROOM.
GREETS THE PARTIES, ASKED IF
ANYTHING NEEDED TO BE TALKING
ABOUT REGARDING SCHEDULING.
THE ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP
ASKED TO APPROACH AND THEY ARE
NOW HAVING A SIDE BAR.
WITH THAT LET'S BRING IN A
FORMER LEGAL ADVISOR TO MICHAEL
COHEN, ROBERT COSTELLO WHO
REPRESENTED COHEN AT THE START
OF THE FEDERAL INVESTIGATION AND
RELEASED FROM HIS
ATTORNEY/CLIENT CONFIDENTALITY
AGREEMENT AND WHY YOU CAN TALK
TO US.
THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME TODAY
AND WE WATCHED YOU BEFORE
CONGRESS YESTERDAY.
THAT WAS SOMETHING ELSE.
THIS IS PART OF WHAT YOU HAD
SAID TO CONGRESS YESTERDAY.
YOU SAID COHEN TOLD YOU, I SWEAR
TO GOD, BOB, I DON'T HAVE
ANYTHING ON DONALD TRUMP.
NOW, YOU TESTIFIED BEFORE ALVIN
BRAGG'S GRAND JURY.
DID YOU TELL THEM WHAT YOU TOLD
CONGRESS YESTERDAY?
>> WELL, IT'S INTERESTING YOU
BRING THAT UP BECAUSE WHEN --
BEFORE I TESTIFIED ON A MONDAY,
BEFORE THE GRAND JURY, I GAVE
ALVIN BRAGG'S ASSISTANT D.A.s
THE COURTESY OF AN HOUR AND A
HALF ZOOM CONFERENCE WHERE I
TOLD THEM ALL OF THE EXCULPATORY
MATERIAL THAT I HAD THAT THEY
WERE SUPPOSED TO PUT BEFORE THE
GRAND JURY.
BUT WHEN I APPEARED BEFORE THE
GRAND JURY, THEY WERE ASKING ME
QUESTIONS THAT IN MY OPINION --
I'VE BEEN A FEDERAL PROSECUTOR
MYSELF, DEPUTY CHIEF OF THE
CRIMINAL DIVISION IN THE
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK.
THOSE QUESTIONS THEY WERE ASKING
ME WERE NOT GOING TO ILLICIT THE
EXCULPATORY INFORMATION THAT I
HAD.
SO I BEGAN TO EXPAND UPON MY
ANSWERS AND THE D.A.'S OFFICE
WAS TRYING TO SHUT ME DOWN
SAYING THAT I HAD FINISHED MY
ANSWER.
AND I TOLD THEM THAT WHEN I'M IN
THE MIDDLE OF ANSWERING A
QUESTION I'LL DECIDE WHEN I
FINISH MY ANSWER AND I ASKED
THEM NOT TO INTERRUPT ME AGAIN.
BASICALLY THEY ONLY PUT IN A
SMALL CHERRY-PICKED GROUP OF
EMAILS I PRESENTED, MAYBE 200 TO
300 EMAILS AND TEXT MESSAGES TO
THEM.
I HAD THEM WITH ME LUCKILY IN
CHRONOLOGICAL ORDER.
THEY PUT TWO OR THREE INTO
EVIDENCE.
I ASKED THEM ARE YOU GOING TO
PUT THE REST OF THEM INTO
EVIDENCE AND THEY SAID NO.
AND I SAID REMEMBER, THERE IS A
COURT REPORTER THERE.
I SAID WHY NOT?
THEY SAID THERE IS A LEGAL
ISSUE.
HE SAID HEARSAY.
FIRST OF ALL IT'S ADMISSIBLE IN
A GRAND JURY.
NOT AN OBJECTION.
I PLAYED ALONG.
HEARSAY, PLAY CLOSE ATTENTION TO
THE NEXT TWO SENTENCES.
I SAID THESE DOCUMENTS WERE MADE
IN THE REGULAR COURSE OF
BUSINESS.
IT WAS THE REGULAR COURSE OF
BUSINESS TO MAKE AND MAINTAIN
DOCUMENTS SUCH AS THESE AT OR
ABOUT THE DATES INDICATED.
YOU AND I KNOW BUT THE GRAND
JURORS DON'T KNOW THAT MAKES
THESE DOCUMENTS BUSINESS RECORDS
AND YOU KNOW AND I KNOW THAT THE
GRAND JURORS DON'T KNOW THAT
BUSINESS RECORDS ARE AN
EXCEPTION TO THE RULE.
ARE YOU GOING TO PUT THE REST OF
THE DOCUMENTS INTO EVIDENCE?
AND THEY INDICATED MOST LIKELY
NO.
SO I SIMPLY SAID TO THE GRAND
JURORS I SAID YOU PEOPLE SHOULD
DEMAND THESE DOCUMENTS.
YOU SHOULD DEMAND TO SEE
EVERYTHING IN CHRONOLOGICAL
ORDER SO YOU GET A REAL VIEW OF
WHAT MICHAEL COHEN WAS LIKE IN
THOSE DAYS AT THAT MOMENT IN
TIME.
I SAID AND THEN ASK YOURSELF
THIS QUESTION.
WHY ARE THEY TRYING TO KEEP
THESE DOCUMENTS FROM ME?
WELL AFTER THAT I LEFT THE GRAND
JURY.
I HAVE NO IDEA WHETHER THEY PUT
THE DOCUMENTS INTO EVIDENCE OR
WHAT HAPPENED.
BUT SUBSEQUENTLY DONALD TRUMP
WAS INDICTED.
AND YOU HAVE SEEN THE FRUITS OF
THAT INDICTMENT IN THIS TRIAL,
WHICH IS A TRIAL ABOUT SOMETHING
THAT IS NOT A CRIME.
WHEN I MET WITH MICHAEL COHEN ON
THE FIRST DAY AT THE REGENCY OH
HOLE WHEN HE WAS SUICIDAL BY HIS
OWN ADMISSION, I EXPLAINED TO
HIM NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENTS,
NDAs ARE PERFECTLY LEGAL BECAUSE
HE KEPT ON SAYING WHY ARE THEY
TRYING TO PUT ME IN JAIL FOR AN
NDA?
I EXPLAINED TO HIM THAT'S NOT
WHY THEY ARE TRYING TO PUT YOU
IN JAIL.
THEY THINK YOU HAVE DONE OTHER
THINGS.
WHAT ARE THEY?
HE DENIED HAVING DONE ANYTHING
ELSE.
I DIDN'T DO ANYTHING ILLEGAL.
I'M COOPERATING WITH THE SPECIAL
COUNSEL, I'M COOPERATING WITH
CONGRESS.
BECAUSE HE FORGET TO TELL US
THAT HE LIED TO CONGRESS.
BUT HE WAS DESPERATELY SEEKING
ACCORDING TO HIS OWN WORDS, AN
ESCAPE ROUTE.
I WANT YOU GUYS TO TELL ME HOW
TO GET OUT OF THIS.
HE SAW THESE ENORMOUS LEGAL
PROBLEMS COMING HIS WAY.
THEY WERE SO BAD IN HIS MIND HE
WAS WILLING TO KILL HIMSELF.
I KEPT ON GOING BACK AND
SUGGESTING TO HIM LISTEN,
MICHAEL, IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING
TRUTHFUL ON DONALD TRUMP, NOW IS
THE TIME TO COOPERATE.
AND HE KEPT ON SAYING OVER AND
OVER AGAIN TEN TO 20 TIMES, I
SWEAR TO GOD, BOB, I DON'T HAVE
ANYTHING ON DONALD TRUMP.
I EVEN SAID TO HIM MICHAEL,
THINK ABOUT THIS?
ISN'T IT EASIER TO COOPERATE
AGAINST DONALD TRUMP IF YOU HAVE
TRUTHFUL INFORMATION THAN IT IS
TO KILL YOURSELF?
THE ANSWER IS OBVIOUS.
THAT WAS HIS MOMENT IN TIME.
IF HE HAD SOMETHING TRUTHFUL TO
SAY I'M WILLING TO COOPERATE.
HE DIDN'T TAKE THAT.
HE KEPT ON SAYING I HAVE NOTHING
ON DONALD TRUMP.
AND THEN WHEN WE GOT INTO THE
DISCUSSION OF THE STORMY DANIELS
NDA HE SAID SPECIFICALLY -- AND
I CROSS-EXAMINED HIM ON THIS --
THIS WAS MY IDEA.
IT WAS HIS IDEA TO TAKE CARE OF
THE NDA BECAUSE HE HAD BEEN
CONTACTED BY A LAWYER FOR STORMY
DANIELS WHO SAID SHE WAS GOING
TO CLAIM THAT DONALD TRUMP HAD
SEX WITH HER.
COHEN SAID I DIDN'T BELIEVE THE
ALLEGATION BUT NEVERTHELESS IT
WOULD BE EMBARRASSING TO
MELANIA.
I DECIDED TO TAKE CARE OF THIS
MYSELF.
NOW, HE TOOK OUT A HOME EQUITY
LOAN FOR $130,000 AND USED THAT
AND HE DID TELL US THAT HE GOT
REPAID LATER.
WE DIDN'T GET INTO THE DETAILS
OF THAT BECAUSE THAT WAS NOT
WHAT WE WERE FOCUSED ON AT THE
MOMENT.
WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
WHAT WAS MICHAEL COHEN GOING TO
BE CHARGED WITH BY THE SOUTHERN
DISTRICT OF NEW YORK.
THEN AS YOU KNOW, ULTIMATELY HE
PLED GUILTY TO EIGHT COUNTS,
SEVEN OF WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO
WITH DONALD TRUMP AND AFTER THAT
ATTEMPTED TO COOPERATE BY
TELLING FIBS TO THE U.S.
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE THAT RUDY
GIULIANI AND I CONSPIRED TO
OBSTRUCT JUSTICE AND TAMPER WITH
A WITNESS, THE WITNESS BEING
MICHAEL COHEN.
WITH ALL THESE EMAILS AND TEXT
MESSAGES I HAD IT WAS ABSOLUTELY
CLEAR THERE WAS NO TRUTH
WHATSOEVER TO THAT.
SO THE U.S. ATTORNEY SAID TO
MICHAEL COHEN IN ORDER FOR US TO
INVESTIGATE THIS YOU HAVE TO
WAIVE THE ATTORNEY-CLIENT
PRIVILEGE.
WHEN THEY PRESENTED ME WITH THE
WAIVER I GAVE THEM THE DOCUMENTS
THEY REQUESTED AND WENT DOWN AND
INTERVIEWED FOR A COUPLE OF
HOURS WITH TWO F.B.I. AGENTS AND
TWO ATTORNEYS.
AT THE END OF THE INTERVIEW
EVERYBODY WAS LAUGHING BECAUSE I
SHOWED HOW LUDICROUS THE
ACCUSATION WAS.
THEY NEVER USED MICHAEL COHEN
AGAIN.
THEY DIDN'T INDICT DONALD TRUMP
FOR ANYTHING AND THEY DIDN'T USE
MICHAEL COHEN AND NO CREDIT FOR
HIS COOPERATION.
THAT'S A LESSON THE MANHATTAN
D.A.'S OFFICE SHOULD HAVE
LEARNED BUT THEY DIDN'T.
>> Dana: YOU SAID THE GRAND JURY
DIDN'T GET TO HEAR SOME OF THE
THINGS YOU THOUGHT THEY SHOULD
HEAR.
FOR ALL OF US LISTENING TO YOU
NOW IT IS LIKE WOW, THE JURY
SHOULD PROBABLY HEAR THIS.
HAVE YOU BEEN SUBPOENAED BY THE
DEFENSE AND CALLED TO TESTIFY IN
NEW YORK AT THIS TRIAL?
>> I HAVE NOT BEEN SUBPOENAEDED.
WHETHER I WILL BE CALLED TO
TESTIFY HASN'T BEEN DECIDED YET.
IT PROBABLY DEPENDS A LOT ON
WHAT WILL HAPPEN TODAY IN COURT.
AND THEN WHAT WOULD HAPPEN ON
REDIRECT BY THE DISTRICT
ATTORNEY'S OFFICE.
IF I WERE IN THE ATTORNEY'S
SHOES THAT'S A ANALYSIS I WOULD
MAKE.
>> Dana: WOULD YOU CALL YOU TO
TESTIFY IF YOU WERE IN HIS
SHOES?
>> YES, BECAUSE I'M A RELIABLE
PERSON.
>> Bill: GO BACK TO THIS MEETING
WITH COHEN IN 2016.
IT IS LATE OCTOBER, EARLY
NOVEMBER.
THE ELECTION HASN'T HAPPENED
YET.
>> NO, NO, NO, NO.
IT IS APRIL.
IT'S APRIL.
>> Bill: WHAT YEAR?
>> 2018.
>> Bill: GOTCHA.
CAN YOU EXPLAIN HOW COHEN COULD
PRO CURE THE NDA ON HIS OWN,
RIGHT?
HE SAID HIS WIFE RAN THE HOUSE.
HE WENT OUT AND GOT A HOME
EQUITY LOAN, OKAY?
THEY ARE LIVING IN SOME PRETTY
FAT APARTMENTS ON PARK AVENUE.
THEY HAVE THE MONEY ON THE HOME
EQUITY LOAN IF THEY WANT IT.
HOW DOES HE SIGN IT WITHOUT HIS
WIFE KNOWING, WHICH HE HAS
TESTIFIED TO, AND WHY DOES HE DO
IT THEN AND IS IT SOLELY FOR THE
PURPOSE THAT HE THOUGHT DONALD
TRUMP WOULD GIVE HIM A GOOD JOB
IN THE ADMINISTRATION IF HE WERE
TO WIN?
>> WELL, THAT'S MULTIPLE
QUESTIONS THERE.
NUMBER ONE, HE GOT A HONE THAT
HE LEVERED TO IT FOR 130,000.
THE REASON HE DID IT THAT WAY,
HE TOLD US -- I HAVEN'T SEEN THE
PAPERWORK.
HE TOLD US HE DIDN'T WANT
MELANIA TO KNOW AND DIDN'T WANT
HIS OWN WIFE TO KNOW.
HE SAID HIS WIFE HANDLES THE
FAMILY FINANCES AND IF HE TOOK
ANY MONEY OUT OF ANY OF HIS
ACCOUNTS, SHE WOULD KNOW IT
RIGHT AWAY AND ACCORDING TO HIM
SHE WOULD ASK HIM 100 QUESTIONS
THAT HE DIDN'T WANT TO ANSWER.
THAT'S HIS STATEMENT.
I HAVEN'T SEEN THE PAPERWORK FOR
THIS LOAN SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT
HE REPRESENTED TO THE BANK.
CHANCES ARE THAT HE DIDN'T TELL
THE TRUTH ON THAT APPLICATION.
HE DIDN'T SAY THIS IS GOING TO
BE MONEY TO TAKE CARE OF A
NON-DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT.
BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT.
I'M JUST GUESSING.
WHAT WAS YOUR OTHER QUESTION?
>> Bill: I HAD A FEW.
CAN I ASK YOU ANOTHER ONE?
WHY WAS ALLEN WEISSELBERG NOT
BEEN A WITNESS IN THIS CASE TO
DATE?
THE LONG-TIME ACCOUNTANT, RAN
THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION FOR MORE
THAN 40 YEARS.
>> WELL, I THINK IF YOU LISTEN
TO ANDY McCARTHY, WHO YOU JUST
HAD ON.
HE GAVE A VERY GOOD ANALYSIS.
AND THAT IS WE ARE PRESUMING
THAT ALLEN WEISSELBERG DOES NOT
HAVE ANY INFORMATION THAT WOULD
BE HELPFUL TO THE DISTRICT
ATTORNEY.
IF THEY THOUGHT HE HAD HELPFUL
INFORMATION THEY WOULD BRING HIM
FROM RYKER'S ISLAND TO THE
COURTHOUSE AND HAVE HIM TESTIFY.
THE FACT THEY HAVEN'T DONE THAT
LEADS ONE TO REASONABLY CONCLUDE
THAT MAYBE WEISSELBERG DOESN'T
HAVE INFORMATION THAT HELPS HIM,
RATHER IT HELPS DONALD TRUMP.
I THINK ANDY McCARTHY IS 100%
CORRECT ON THAT.
>> Dana: A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS
IF YOU DON'T MIND.
HERE IS ONE.
IF COHEN DID ALL OF THIS ON HIS
OWN BUT THE JURY SEES THAT
DONALD TRUMP SIGNED THE CHECKS,
DOES THAT KIND OF EVIDENCE GO TO
THE PROSECUTION'S POINT?
>> I DON'T THINK SO.
LISTEN, THIS IS A PROSECUTION
FOR A FALSE STATEMENT IN A
BUSINESS RECORD.
FRANKLY, NONE OF THIS TAWDRY
STUFF SHOULD HAVE BEEN ALLOWED
IN.
IT WILL GET REVERSED IF THERE IS
A CONVICTION BUT AFTER THE
ELECTION PROBABLY.
THAT'S WHAT THEY WANT.
>> Dana: OKAY.
>> THE FACT THAT DONALD TRUMP
SIGNS THE CHECKS DOESN'T MEAN
ANYTHING.
DO YOU KNOW HOW MANY CHECKS HE
SITS THERE AND SIGNS WHILE HE IS
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES?
HE MIGHT BE A LITTLE BUSY ON
SOMETHING ELSE.
>> Dana: DO YOU KNOW JUDGE
MERCHAN?
>> NO, NOT AT ALL.
NEVER MET HIM.
>> Dana: YOU HAVE EXPERIENCE
WITH NEW YORK JURIES.
WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS
PARTICULAR JURY AND WHAT THEY
MIGHT BE THINKING ABOUT THIS
CASE AS THEY GET READY FOR JURY
INSTRUCTIONS FAIRLY SOON?
>> WELL, IT'S NEW YORK CITY.
SO I UNDERSTAND THAT 87% OF THE
VOTERS VOTED NOT FOR DONALD
TRUMP IN THE LAST ELECTION.
SO YOU HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THERE
IS TRUMP DERANGEMENT SYNDROME
OUT THERE AND THAT THIS JURY
WILL BE REFLECTIVE OF THAT.
THERE ARE SOME PEOPLE ON THIS
JURY WHO WILL VOTE TO CONVICT
HIM WHETHER OR NOT THE EVIDENCE.
YOU NEED ONE OR TWO REASONABLE
PEOPLE TO HANG THE JURY.
IF I WAS BETTING ON THIS, I
WOULD BET THAT'S PROBABLY GOING
TO BE THE RESULT.
THEY MAY ACTUALLY JUST GET SO
DISGUSTED AND ACQUIT HIM.
IT'S HARD TO DO THAT WHEN 87% OF
THE PEOPLE VOTE FOR THE OTHER
GUY.
GO AHEAD.
>> Bill: WE'RE TOLD RIGHT NOW
THE SIDE BAR CONTINUES.
SO IT HAS BEEN GOING ON FOR 15
MINUTES.
MAYBE THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT YOU
AS A WITNESS.
YOU ARE A FRIEND OF RUDY
GIULIANI AND HOW YOU CAME INTO
THIS ORBIT BY WAY OF NEW YORK
AND SOUTHERN DISTRICT BASED ON
YOUR RESUME.
THIS IS ONE OF YOUR EMAILS TO
MICHAEL COHEN.
THIS WAS APRIL OF 2018.
WE CAN PUT IT ON SCREEN.
GIULIANI ASKED ME TO TELL YOU HE
KNOWS HOW TOUGH IT IS ON YOU AND
YOUR FAMILY AND MAKE SURE TO
TELL THE PRESIDENT.
THANK YOU FOR OPENING THE BACK
CHANNEL OF COMMUNICATION AND
ASKED ME TO KEEP IN TOUCH.
WHY WAS IT NECESSARY FOR YOU TO
BE A BACK CHANNEL AT THAT TIME?
>> IT WASN'T AND THAT PHRASE WAS
NOT MINE.
THAT WAS A WORD THAT RUDY USED.
PROBABLY AN UNFORTUNATE TERM.
THERE WAS NOTHING SNEAKY ABOUT
THIS.
I WAS REPRESENTING COHEN.
BY THE WAY, THAT FIRST MEETING
AT THE REGENCY MICHAEL COHEN
LIED TO THE JURY ALREADY ABOUT
THAT.
HE SAYS THAT RUDY GIULIANI AND I
WERE CONSPIRING ON EVEN ON THAT
DAY.
RUDY WASN'T EVEN REPRESENTING
DONALD TRUMP UNTIL A COUPLE OF
DAYS LATER.
YOU WILL SEE THAT THERE IS AN
EMAIL FROM ME INFORMING MICHAEL
COHEN DID YOU SEE THE REPORT IN
THE NEWSPAPER RUDY WILL NOW
REPRESENT TRUMP.
THAT'S GOOD FOR YOU, I KNOW RUDY
AND RUDY KNOWS ME.
THE REASON WHY IT'S GOOD WHEN
YOU ARE TALKING TO A LAWYER
REPRESENTING SOMEBODY ELSE, IF
YOU'VE KNOWN THAT LAWYER FOR 40,
50 YEARS AND YOU KNOW THAT THE
PERSON IS TRUSTWORTHY, IT MAKES
THINGS A LOT EASIER.
IT'S THAT SIMPLE.
AND WHAT COHEN DID -- GO AHEAD.
>> Bill: YOU SAID HE TOLD YOU
TEN TIMES, 12 TIMES I DON'T HAVE
ANYTHING ON DONALD TRUMP.
WHY WOULD -- SO HIS STORY IS
ENTIRELY DIFFERENT NOW.
HE HAS DONE A 180.
SO MAYBE THE JURORS BELIEVE HIM
TODAY AND THEY WOULD NOT BELIEVE
SOMETHING FROM SIX YEARS AGO,
ROBERT.
>> THE REST OF THE PROOF DOESN'T
SUPPORT MICHAEL COHEN.
BY THE WAY, ONE THING YOU ARE
NOT REPORTING YET IS THAT
BESIDES MAKING THAT STATEMENT I
SWEAR TO GOD I DON'T HAVE
ANYTHING ON DONALD TRUMP, HE
ALSO SAID MORE TIMES THAN THAT
ANSWER, GUYS, I WANT YOU TO
UNDERSTAND, I WILL DO WHATEVER
THE F I HAVE TO DO.
I WILL NEVER SPEND A DAY IN JAIL
AND THEN HE WOULD SLAM HIS HAND
ON THE CONFERENCE ROOM TABLE.
WHAT DOES THAT MEAN TO YOU?
THAT MEANS THIS GUY IS SAYING I
WILL LIE, CHEAT, STEAL, DO
WHATEVER I HAVE TO DO, I'M NOT
GOING TO JAIL.
HE DID GO TO JAIL.
AND WHO DO YOU THINK HE BLAMES
FOR THAT?
AND WHY DO YOU THINK HE NAMES
HIS MOST RECENT BOOK REVENGE?
QUITE FRANKLY, HE IS USING THIS
TO MONETIZE HIMSELF BECAUSE THIS
IS THE ONLY WAY THIS GUY CAN
MAKE MONEY RIGHT NOW, SELLING
BOOKS AND T-SHIRTS AND TRINKETS
AND BEING THE ULTIMATE
ANTI-TRUMPER.
AND BECAUSE HE WAS DOING THAT ON
TV, AND I SAW THAT, I SAID I
CAN'T SIT BY AND LET THIS GUY
TELL THE GRAND JURY, TELL THE
JURORS NOW THIS FALSE STORY WHEN
HE TOLD US THE OPPOSITE STORY AT
A MOMENT WHEN HE WAS DESPERATELY
SEEKING A WAY OUT AND WAS
WILLING TO KILL HIMSELF.
AND CERTAINLY COOPERATING WITH
TRUTHFUL INFORMATION IS A LOT
EASIER.
BUT HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY TRUTHFUL
INFORMATION.
>> Dana: THAT LEADS ME TO A
QUESTION I WAS THINKING ABOUT
ASKING YOU.
YOU HAVE HAD TIME WITH MICHAEL
COHEN, I HAVE NOT.
I'M WONDERING ABOUT HOW YOU
THINK HIS STATE OF MIND IS NOW,
BECAUSE AS YOU SAID HE WAS
SUICIDAL WHEN HE FIRST MET YOU.
HE DID GO TO JAIL.
NOW WRITTEN A BOOK CALLED
REVENGE AND SAID TO THE
PROSECUTION HE DOES WANT TRUMP
TO BE CONVICTED.
AND HE IS GETTING SOME STRANGE
NEW RESPECT FROM LIBERAL MEDIA
AND COMMENTATORS, EVEN ACTRESSES
AND COMEDIANS ON THE LEFT WING
PERSPECTIVE.
I WONDER HOW HE THINKS ABOUT
THAT?
DOES HE RESPOND TO THAT KIND OF
FLATTERY?
ALSO THE WAY HE CAN CONTINUE TO
MAKE MONEY TO SUPPORT HIS
FAMILY.
>> THE ANSWER IS BOTH.
HE DOES RESPOND TO THE FLATTERY.
HE IS LOOKING TO MAKE MONEY.
AND HE HAS BEEN MAKING MONEY.
HE HAS A PODCAST APPARENTLY
CALLED IT'S LATIN THAT MEANS
THROUGH MY FAULT.
IT'S THROUGH HIS FAULT WE'RE ALL
TALKING ABOUT THIS SUBJECT.
>> Bill: THE SIDE BAR IS OVER.
LASTED 20 MINUTES.
THE JUDGE SAID I APOLOGIZE FOR
THE WHISPERING.
THE JURY IS NOW BEING BROUGHT
INTO THE COURTROOM AND SO IS
MICHAEL COHEN.
SO WE'LL SEE WHAT GETS UNDERWAY
MOMENTARILY.
FINAL QUESTION.
DO YOU THINK MICHAEL COHEN WAS
TELLING THE TRUTH IN 2018?
MAYBE HE WAS LYING SIX YEARS
AGO.
MAYBE HE HAS FLIPPED AGAIN.
>> THAT'S A POSSIBILITY.
HOWEVER.
>> I WAS IN THE COURTROOM THE
OTHER DAY AND IT WAS A
WELL-REHEARSED SHOW BETWEEN THE
PROSECUTOR AND MICHAEL COHEN, Q
AND A, Q AND A, FLIP THE PAGE.
HE COULD ALMOST ANTICIPATE THE
QUESTION.
HE WAS VERY WELL-REHEARSED.
IF YOU ARE SAYING HE IS LYING
NOW, WHO IS TO SAY HE WASN'T
LYING THEN WHEN YOU FIRST CAME
ACROSS HIM?
>> I WILL TELL YOU WHY I BELIEVE
THAT WHAT HE TOLD US IN 2018 WAS
THE TRUTH.
NUMBER ONE, AS I SAID HE WAS
SUICIDE ALL DESPERATELY LOOKING
FOR A WAY OUT.
THE WAY OUT WAS CLEAR, TO
COOPERATE AGAINST DONALD TRUMP
IF HE HAD TRUTHFUL INFORMATION.
HE DIDN'T TAKE THAT WAY OUT.
ALL DAY LONG HE SAID I DON'T
HAVE ANYTHING.
BUT I WILL DO WHATEVER THE F I
HAVE TO DO, I WILL NEVER SPEND A
DAY IN JAIL.
HERE IS THE OTHER THING.
DONALD TRUMP, WHEN HE WENT TO
WASHINGTON, D.C., WHEN HE WAS
ELECTED, HE TOOK THE WHOLE TRUMP
INNER CIRCLE TO WASHINGTON WITH
ONE EXCEPTION, MICHAEL COHEN.
THEY LEFT HIM BACK IN NEW YORK.
MICHAEL COHEN WAS VERY UNHAPPY
ABOUT THAT.
AS I TESTIFIED YESTERDAY, DURING
ONE OF MY CONVERSATIONS WITH
MICHAEL COHEN WHEN I ASKED HIM
MICHAEL, WHAT DID YOU THINK YOU
WOULD HAPPEN IF YOU DID GO TO
WASHINGTON, D.C.?
HE SAID I THOUGHT I COULD BE
ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED
STATES OR AT LEAST CHIEF OF
STAFF TO THE PRESIDENT.
NOW, AS LUDICROUS AS THAT
SOUNDS, I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY
ONE THAT HE HAD SAID THAT TO
UNTIL I NOTICED THAT DURING
CROSS EXAMINATION OF I THINK IT
WAS STORMY DANIELS LAWYER COHEN
ACTUALLY SAID THAT TO HIM.
YOUR ADVERSARY AND YOU ARE
NEGOTIATING WITH THIS GUY FOR AN
NDA AND TELLING HIM HOW ANNOYED
YOU ARE WHERE DONALD TRUMP
DIDN'T BRING YOU TO WASHINGTON
WITH ATTORNEY GENERAL OR CHIEF
OF STAFF?
HE WENT TO JAIL AND HE IS LEFT
ALONE IN NEW YORK.
I THINK THAT'S HIS MOTIVATION
NOW.
>> Dana: ROBERT COSTELLO, THANK
YOU SO MUCH FOR SPENDING THIS
TIME WITH US.
VERY VALUABLE AND INSIGHTFUL.
>> Bill: MAYBE WE'LL SEE YOU
AGAIN.
>> Dana: IT SOUNDS LIKE WE
MIGHT.
>> Bill: THERE ARE 11
REPUBLICANS IN THE HOUSE TODAY.
WHITE SHIRT, RED TIE TODAY.
SO HE IS SPORTING THE RED, WHITE
AND BLUE AS WELL.
DONALD TRUMP IS THERE NOW WITH
THE JURY AND MICHAEL COHEN IS ON
THE STAND AND WE'LL GET OUR
FIRST
5.0 / 5 (0 votes)
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