"I Don’t Need Your Pity!" Rahma Zein vs Mosab Hassan Yousef

Piers Morgan Uncensored
29 Apr 202439:22

Summary

TLDRThe video script presents a heated debate on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, focusing on the recent escalation of violence and the international response. The discussion involves an Egyptian podcaster, Ramama Zay, and Masab Hassan Yusf, the son of a Hamas founder and a former Palestinian militant. They tackle the complexity of the situation, with Zay emphasizing the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and the need to hold perpetrators accountable, while Yusf argues for Israel's right to security against Hamas, which he views as a terrorist organization. The conversation touches on the impact of the conflict on civilians, the role of the United States, the concept of victimhood, and the potential for future violence. Both participants express strong emotions and differing perspectives, highlighting the deep divisions and the urgent need for a resolution that respects human rights and international law.

Takeaways

  • 📢 The interview with performance artist 'Crackhead Barney' sparked controversy, highlighting the polarizing nature of the anti-war protests in the United States.
  • 🌟 The discussion emphasizes the complexity of being critical of Israel's government actions without being anti-Semitic, and the importance of focusing on the humanitarian crisis rather than personal agendas.
  • 🤔 The potential invasion of Rafah by Israel is a point of contention, with concerns that it could lead to massive civilian casualties and be seen as a war crime if the US does not intervene effectively.
  • 🏙️ The situation in Gaza is presented as a brutal war and humanitarian emergency, with over a million people seeking refuge in Rafah city amidst the Israeli assault.
  • 👥 The conversation includes perspectives from an Egyptian podcaster and the son of a Hamas founder, illustrating the range of viewpoints on the conflict.
  • 🔥 There is a debate over whether Israel's actions in Gaza could lead to further radicalization and revenge, counterproductive to Israel's security interests.
  • 💣 The issue of Israeli settlements expansion is acknowledged as a significant point of conflict, with opinions that such expansion is 'outrageous and indefensible'.
  • 📛 The term 'Palestinian' is contested, with one participant arguing that it is a colonial construct and that Arabs in the region should not be using it to delegitimize Israel.
  • 🛡️ It is asserted that Israel is fighting in Gaza following war protocols, while Hamas is accused of breaking these protocols, using civilians as shields.
  • ⚖️ The script suggests that the global perception of the conflict is influenced by narratives spread by various parties, some of which may be misleading or false.
  • 👶 The plight of children in the conflict is highlighted, with references to trauma, the impact of violence, and the psychological effects of living under siege and military occupation.

Q & A

  • What was the main criticism of the anti-war protest movement in the United States as discussed in the transcript?

    -The main criticism was that the protest movement is being overrun by ignorant virtue signals who are shifting the focus away from the actual issues, such as the brutal war and humanitarian emergency in Gaza.

  • What is the stance on being anti-Israel in terms of its government without being anti-Semitic?

    -It is entirely possible to criticize the Israeli government's actions without harboring prejudice against Jewish people, emphasizing the distinction between political disagreement and ethnic discrimination.

  • What is the concern regarding the potential invasion of Rafah by Israel?

    -The concern is that an invasion could lead to a large number of civilian casualties, as there would be a significant population with nowhere else to go, potentially leading to a humanitarian crisis.

  • What is the role of the United States in the ongoing conflict between Israel and Palestine, as mentioned in the transcript?

    -The United States is seen as the only country that can potentially stop Israel from further military actions, with President Biden having told Israel to halt its advances.

  • What is the controversy surrounding the International Criminal Court (ICC) and its potential involvement with Israeli and Hamas leaders?

    -The ICC is reportedly considering bringing Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu to trial for alleged war crimes. The United States is attempting to prevent this, which has sparked debate over international justice and accountability.

  • What is the position of Masab Hassan Yusf regarding the removal of Hamas from power?

    -Masab Hassan Yusf believes that Israel should not compromise its security due to global pressure and that removing Hamas from power is a necessary step towards peace, despite potential civilian casualties.

  • What is the view of Ramama Zay on the escalation of violence and the role of the United States?

    -Ramama Zay expresses concern about the potential for further violence and questions the ability of the United States to effectively intervene and stop Israel's actions, highlighting the need for accountability for war crimes.

  • What is the argument against the narrative that Israel is targeting civilians on purpose in Gaza?

    -The argument is that Israel is not intentionally targeting civilians but rather conducting operations against Hamas, and any civilian casualties are considered collateral damage, not the intended outcome.

  • What is the importance of understanding the historical context and the roots of the Palestinian identity in the discussion about the conflict?

    -Understanding the historical context is crucial as it provides insight into the origins of the Palestinian identity and the evolution of the conflict, which is rooted in territorial disputes, decolonization efforts, and nationalism.

  • How does the issue of settlements and their expansion factor into the conflict?

    -The expansion of settlements is a contentious issue as it is seen as a violation of international law and an obstacle to peace, contributing to tensions and the perception of Israel's unwillingness to pursue a peaceful resolution.

  • What is the responsibility of the global community in addressing the ongoing conflict and potential war crimes?

    -The global community has a responsibility to ensure that human rights are upheld, war crimes are investigated, and a path towards peace and stability is facilitated, which includes addressing the false narratives and victim mentality that perpetuate the cycle of violence.

Outlines

00:00

📽️ Anti-War Protests and the Gaza Crisis

The paragraph discusses the absurdity of anti-war protests in the U.S. and an interview with a performance artist known as Crackhead Barney. It critiques the virtue signaling and self-focus of protesters, emphasizing the need to focus on the actual humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The speaker argues against the eradication of the Israeli State and for a nuanced understanding of the conflict, highlighting the plight of civilians in Rafah and the international political dynamics, including the potential consequences if Israel ignores U.S. warnings.

05:00

💣 The Human Cost of the Gaza Conflict

This section delves into the potential humanitarian disaster if Israel invades Rafah, with the acknowledgment of the complexity of the situation. The speaker discusses the repeated tactics of Hamas, including the use of civilians as shields, and the broader implications of Israel's actions on global perception and the potential for increased radicalization. The conversation also touches upon the role of the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the political challenges faced by the U.S. in influencing Israel's decisions.

10:01

🤝 Personal Narratives and Collective Movements

The paragraph focuses on personal narratives within the larger conflict, with one speaker renouncing Hamas's tactics and advocating for the protection of civilian lives. It contrasts personal experiences with the collective movement for peace and the need to end cycles of violence. There's a call for accountability and a challenge to the lack of clear leadership within the pro-Palestinian movement, emphasizing the importance of non-violent objectives and moral responsibility.

15:03

🏛️ The Impact of Protests on Campuses

This section addresses the polarization and fear felt by Jewish students amidst campus protests that support Hamas. It highlights the predominantly Jewish participation in protests against the Israeli government's actions, emphasizing the complexity of the issue and the need for understanding the broader historical context. The speaker challenges the narrative that the protests are anti-Semitic and calls for an end to the siege and apartheid, advocating for a sustainable solution to the conflict.

20:04

🏡 Displacement and the Narrative of Victimhood

The paragraph discusses the historical context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, addressing the displacement of Jewish people in the Middle East and the disputed territories post-1967 war. It argues against the notion of 'Palestinians' as a nationality, questioning the legitimacy of the term and the narrative of victimhood. The speaker asserts that the conflict stems from a refusal to accept the consequences of war and a perpetuation of a false narrative that delegitimizes Israel.

25:05

🕊️ The Role of Hamas and the Future of Palestine

This section questions the leadership and future of the Palestinian cause, with one speaker expressing concern over the influence of Hamas. It discusses the impact of the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) on Palestinian Christians and the broader humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The conversation touches on the responsibility to protect civilians and the moral obligation to speak out against war crimes, emphasizing the need for a resolution that respects the rights and dignity of all people in the region.

30:07

⚖️ War Protocols and the Conduct of War

The final paragraph debates the conduct of war, with one speaker accusing the Israeli military of war crimes while the other defends their adherence to war protocols. It addresses the issue of Hamas using civilians as shields and the complexities of military strategy in densely populated areas. The discussion ends with a call for understanding the nuances of the conflict and recognizing the passions and concerns on both sides of the debate.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Anti-war protest

Anti-war protests are public demonstrations against warfare or a specific war. In the video, the speaker criticizes the anti-war movement in the United States, suggesting it is being overrun by virtue signaling and losing focus on the actual humanitarian crisis in Gaza. The protests are a central theme as they reflect the broader societal and political response to the conflict.

💡Humanitarian emergency

A humanitarian emergency refers to a critical situation where there is an immediate need for assistance to save lives, alleviate suffering, and maintain human dignity. The video discusses the humanitarian emergency in Gaza, emphasizing the urgency of the situation and the need for international attention and intervention.

💡War crimes

War crimes are serious violations of the laws and customs of war that give rise to individual criminal responsibility. The script mentions the term in the context of accusing certain parties of inciting or committing war crimes during the conflict, which is a contentious issue within the broader debate about the legality and morality of the actions taken by different sides.

💡Settlements

Settlements refer to communities established in disputed territories, often as part of a larger political dispute over land. In the video, the expansion of Israeli settlements in the West Bank is discussed as a contentious issue, with some arguing that it's an obstacle to peace and others defending it as a consequence of historical conflicts and wars.

💡Hamas

Hamas is a Palestinian Islamic fundamentalist and militant organization that has been a key player in the Israel-Palestine conflict. The video discusses the role of Hamas in the ongoing conflict, with some speakers accusing the group of using civilians as human shields and others defending it as a resistance movement against Israeli occupation.

💡Palestinian refugees

Palestinian refugees are individuals who were forced to leave their homes during the 1948 Palestinian exodus or subsequent conflicts. The video touches on the plight of Palestinian refugees, particularly in the context of the right of return, which is a major point of contention in the Israeli-Palestinian peace process.

💡Collateral damage

Collateral damage refers to the unintended harm that comes to civilians or non-military structures in the course of a military operation. The term is used in the video to describe the civilian casualties that occur during military actions, and it is a point of debate over the morality and legality of those actions.

💡International Criminal Court (ICC)

The International Criminal Court is an intergovernmental organization that sits in The Hague in the Netherlands and is intended to complement national judicial systems by prosecuting individuals for international crimes of genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes. The video discusses the potential involvement of the ICC in prosecuting leaders from both sides of the conflict, which is a significant aspect of the international legal dimension of the conflict.

💡Human shields

Human shields refer to the use of civilians to deter an enemy from attacking military targets in the vicinity. The video script accuses one side of using human shields, which is a serious violation of the laws of war and a controversial claim that adds to the complexity of the conflict.

💡Apartheid

Apartheid is a policy or system of segregation or discrimination based on race. In the video, the term is used to describe the perceived unequal treatment and segregation between Palestinians and Israelis, particularly in the context of the occupation and the settlements.

💡Right of return

The right of return is a principle in international law that allows refugees the right to return to their homes. In the video, it is mentioned as a fundamental demand of the Palestinian people who were displaced during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War and subsequent conflicts.

Highlights

Discussion on the absurdity of anti-war protests in the United States and the impact of virtue signaling on the focus of the conflict in Gaza.

Interview with performance artist 'Crackhead Barney' causing controversy and debate on the effectiveness of interviewing such figures.

The importance of distinguishing between being anti-Israel government actions and not being anti-Semitic.

The debate over the potential consequences if Israel ignores the US and proceeds with an invasion of Rafah in Gaza.

Egyptian podcaster Ramama Zay's view on the repetition of warnings about the conflict and the lack of accountability leading to escalated crimes.

Mosab Hassan Yousuf, son of a Hamas founder, argues that Israel should not compromise its security despite global pressure.

Concerns about the potential radicalization of a new generation due to the loss of civilian life in Gaza.

Discussion on the role of the US in stopping potential Israeli invasions and the consequences of ignoring US directives.

Ramama Zay's perspective on the need to address the plight of the people in Rafah and the potential for further violence.

Mosab Hassan Yousuf's argument that ending Hamas's power is a step towards peace, despite the risks of civilian casualties.

Debate on the legitimacy of the term 'Palestinian' and the historical context of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Ramama Zay's emphasis on the collective movement to end the cycle of violence and the importance of accountability for war crimes.

The issue of Israeli settlements expansion and its impact on the conflict, with differing views on legitimacy and consequences.

Emotional discussion on the human cost of the conflict, including the impact on children and civilians in Gaza.

Mosab Hassan Yousuf's defense of Israel's military actions in Gaza, stating they follow war protocols and accusing Hamas of breaking them.

Ramama Zay's call for an end to the siege and apartheid, and the need for a sustainable solution that respects the rights of the Palestinian people.

The主持人's acknowledgment of the complexity and passion in the debate, appreciating the civility and depth of discussion from both sides.

Transcripts

00:00

last week we shot a light on the

00:01

absurdity of the anti-war protest now

00:03

sweeping the United States it's fair to

00:05

say that my interview with the self star

00:07

performance artist known as crackhead

00:09

Barney caused a bit of a stir many

00:12

people questioned why I had on a tool

00:14

well did I really expect to get any

00:15

sense out of a diaper wearing

00:17

demonstrator who become infamous by

00:19

harassing Alec Balwin in a coffee shop

00:21

the answer is no probably not but that

00:24

was kind of the point the protest

00:25

movement is being overrun by ignorant

00:27

virtue signals who are shifting the

00:29

focus from where it needs to be a brutal

00:31

war and humanitarian emergency in Gaza

00:34

too many protesters on both sides are

00:35

making this all about them we've lost s

00:38

of some home truths so let's be pretty

00:40

clear it's entirely possible to be

00:43

anti-israel in terms of its government

00:45

but not anti- anti-semitic it should be

00:47

entirely possible to have serious moral

00:50

arguments against the way Israel is

00:51

Prosecuting this war but not call for

00:53

the total eradication of Israeli State

00:56

you could be anti-war without chanting

00:58

from the river to the Sea and defending

01:00

a murderous death cult you can debate

01:02

the issues without making yourself the

01:04

central character this week the focus

01:07

should be on Rafa the southern gazen

01:09

city where more than a million people

01:10

have sought Refuge from Israeli assault

01:12

on the rest of the strip Israel is

01:14

poised to invade it its critics believe

01:16

civilians will be sitting ducks with

01:18

nowhere else to go mash casualties will

01:21

be inevitable well Palestinian President

01:23

mmud abbass says the US is the only

01:25

country in the world that can stop

01:27

Israel from attacking Rafa and President

01:29

Biden has told Israel to go no further

01:32

but can he really stop them and should

01:34

there be consequences if Israel does

01:36

ignore the US and presses on with an

01:38

invasion despite his most important Ally

01:41

not offering support well to debate this

01:43

I'm joined by the Egyptian podcaster

01:45

ramama Zay and by the son of hamas's

01:47

founder and former Palestinian militant

01:49

masab Hassan yusf welcome to both of you

01:52

both returning to uncensored let me ask

01:54

you first of all if I may um ramama Zan

01:58

since we last spoke uh several months

02:00

ago about all this this war has

02:03

continued to rage and tens of thousands

02:06

of people have died in Gaza and it's

02:09

quite likely if there is a fullscale

02:11

invasion of Rafa that tens of thousands

02:13

of more civilians may die in the process

02:16

of

02:16

Israel as they put it getting rid of

02:19

Hamas and its entirety what is your view

02:22

of where this war now

02:25

is it's sad to see that a few months

02:29

after we're regurgitating and having to

02:32

repeat the same things that we've warned

02:34

about since day one that things are

02:36

getting out of hand that at one point do

02:39

you start calling someone who keeps

02:43

inciting these war crimes a criminal so

02:46

not having had having held them

02:48

accountable from day one has led to the

02:51

audacity and the confidence that we are

02:53

witnessing in the crimes and just as you

02:56

had stated now that there might be a uh

03:00

further violence onto RAF you don't know

03:03

if the US is even able to stop them

03:06

they've and we mentioned Gazza but we

03:08

don't even mention the West Bank we

03:10

don't mention what's happening in other

03:11

places and again this not this allowing

03:15

them to continue with their blatant war

03:17

crimes that by the way their soldiers

03:19

are filming and and sending them to one

03:23

another on telegram channels and other

03:26

social media channels just goes to show

03:29

to what it extent they are confident to

03:31

continue as such and it is scary we've

03:35

uh we've seen news that the the probably

03:37

the ICC is going to be calling Netanyahu

03:40

in as a as a criminal and um for trial

03:43

and the US is aiming to stop that at one

03:46

point you have to take a stand that

03:48

enough is enough it is sad that we are

03:50

repeating what we've started what we had

03:52

been saying from day one okay let me

03:54

bring in mosab Hassan youf for your

03:56

response to that I should point out that

03:57

the ICC is not just threatening apparent

03:59

ly to bring in Israeli leaders but also

04:02

Hamas leaders um M you said you said I I

04:06

think uh in The Times of Israel uh last

04:09

week we need to go into Rafa now not

04:11

tomorrow what are we waiting for we

04:12

finish Rafa we finish Hamas this will

04:15

remove them from Power which will be the

04:17

first step towards peace of course the

04:20

contrary view to this is that if Israel

04:23

does go hard into Rafa to try and

04:25

eliminate Hamas completely and kills

04:28

potentially tens of thousand thousands

04:30

more civilians that the global support

04:33

for Israel will completely evaporate and

04:36

many people will view what is happening

04:38

there as a war crime what do you say to

04:43

that well first of all I don't think

04:45

Israel should compromise its security

04:47

because of global uh pressure because

04:50

this Global pressure sooner or later is

04:52

going to go away now people are

04:55

traumatized by the uh tragedy of Gaza

04:58

and many people are making rational

05:00

decisions in my

05:02

opinion if we don't end Hamas and remove

05:05

them from Power like at least to remove

05:08

them from

05:09

power we we are going to have many other

05:12

Wars uh this is not hamas's first

05:15

attempt to take hostages and to take uh

05:19

civilians as human Shields they've done

05:22

this many times

05:25

already and I don't think that we need

05:27

to give Hamas one more opportunity

05:30

to destabilize the region and create a a

05:34

major war like this but is there not a

05:37

danger M that by doing this the way

05:40

Israel is doing it by flattening most of

05:43

Gaza in the process by killing so many

05:46

civilians including women and so many

05:48

children because of the the age

05:50

demographic of Gaza with half the people

05:52

there being children is there not a

05:55

danger that by trying to do what you've

05:58

just said and trying to get rid of her

06:00

Mass which many people I'm sure in

06:01

Israel would love to do and I understand

06:03

completely why they have a desire for

06:05

that to happen that by doing it you

06:07

actually end up achieving the opposite

06:09

of making Israel more secure that you

06:11

create a whole new generation of people

06:15

radicalized by losing their children

06:18

their mothers their wives and so on and

06:20

they become even more determined to

06:23

exact

06:27

Revenge yes well isra is fighting for

06:30

its very

06:31

existence um and I am also fighting for

06:34

my very existence when there are people

06:37

out there who want you to cease to exist

06:41

this is when they push you to the corner

06:43

and you have no other choice but to

06:45

fight I'm in the same position how it

06:49

feels like when you have hundreds of

06:51

millions of people who sentenced you to

06:53

death because of false

06:56

narratives and this is why uh we have

06:59

this trouble in the United States and a

07:01

global chaos because people are in

07:04

denial of the truth that Israel is not

07:07

targeting civilians on a purpose they

07:10

are not killing in Gaza for sport this

07:12

is what Hamas did on October 7 it was an

07:16

actual genocide that the world doesn't

07:20

want to admit now even though the icj

07:24

judges they say it was not a genocide

07:27

what's happening in Gaza is not a

07:29

genocide side this is what the judge say

07:31

but then we have all the wannabes and

07:33

the social media Warriors and the uh low

07:37

grade journalists s in public that

07:40

what's happening in Gaza is a genocide

07:43

and we simply say it's collateral damage

07:46

two two different

07:48

things okay uh ramazan here's my

07:51

question for you say something let me

07:54

just ask you first of all what should

07:56

Israel have done after October the 7th

07:59

if not go after Hass the people who

08:01

perpetrated I just need to respond uh Mr

08:04

Hassan I truly do apologize that your

08:09

type of relationship with your father

08:11

has led you to this quest to condone the

08:14

annihilation of your own people I truly

08:16

am sorry for that but just as you said

08:20

it is not about you unfortunately what

08:23

we're seeing today and how we're seeing

08:25

it it is bigger and it is older than

08:28

Hames when you look at the Palestinians

08:31

predominantly for example yesterday

08:33

there was one protest with predominantly

08:35

Christian

08:36

Palestinians it is much more than what

08:39

we are seeing today the right of return

08:42

the fact that you know it was actually

08:44

quite interesting you have some zionists

08:47

uh here telling the pro Palestinian uh

08:50

protesters go back home and their

08:53

response is we want to so come join our

08:56

protest so that we can have the right to

08:58

return and this The Siege whatever you

09:01

do and you just said you know you have

09:04

at one point you get so oppressed there

09:06

you have to fight back you you just said

09:08

that so what ends up happening and you

09:11

have to understand that as everyone and

09:14

Pierce on your show so many people have

09:16

said the same thing you are going to

09:19

keep having more resistance as long as

09:23

you don't do something about it and you

09:26

keep speaking about the hostages what

09:28

about those that are being abducted

09:29

abducted from the West Bank what about

09:31

those that are in prison what about the

09:33

children that are in prisons at some

09:35

point you have to stand up and say that

09:37

this cycle has to end and how does it

09:39

end by changing your tactic by putting

09:41

those that are the perpetrators

09:43

accountable and you sir are stating that

09:46

it is not a genocide it is even the

09:49

intent for genocide would label it as a

09:52

genocide which we have seen from OCC

09:55

occupation leaders calling them subhuman

09:58

uh benav asking for a nuclear bomb to be

10:01

dropped at them and I I I wish to

10:04

reiterate I understand that you have had

10:07

your personal issues but like you said

10:10

it's not about you it's it's it's a

10:13

collective movement to end the cycle of

10:16

violence okay let me give and you need

10:19

to realize that okay let me give uh

10:21

masab a chance to respond I mean the the

10:22

suggestion is that you are driven by

10:25

personal enemity because of your family

10:27

situation with your father being one of

10:29

the

10:29

uh founders of Hamas and you've since

10:32

renounced that side of your life and

10:35

that part of your family what do you say

10:37

to that charge that somehow you're

10:39

driven by by that more than anything

10:42

else

10:44

right well it is not only personal it's

10:49

fundamental uh what I did during the

10:51

second Palestinian intifa I risk my life

10:55

on a regular basis to save human lives

10:57

from Hamas brutal

10:59

uh suicide bombing attacks because Hamas

11:02

terrorism did not start on October 7

11:04

we're talking about waves of suicide

11:07

bomb and attacks that targeted civilians

11:11

indiscriminately where Jewish Christian

11:14

Arabs Muslims were killed during Hamas

11:18

attacks so our job was to stop Hamas

11:22

from blowing up things buses markets

11:26

beaches beach houses they targeted

11:28

everywhere

11:29

Hamas strategy of using uh civilians or

11:34

targeting civilians is not a new thing

11:37

now for me to be sentenced to death for

11:41

saving a human life because there is a

11:44

belief system that says

11:47

so well I totally reject that and they

11:51

want me to cease to exist this is not uh

11:55

a relationship between Father and Son

11:57

and by the way at I don't need your pity

12:01

my relationship with my father was an

12:03

excellent relationship I loved my father

12:05

and he loved me I'm sure he still does

12:08

love

12:09

me but this is where we draw the line

12:13

when the higher interest of humanity is

12:15

at risk when

12:17

people uh

12:19

kill uh hundreds and thousands of

12:22

civilians by the name of religion and by

12:25

the name of

12:27

ideology somebody has to stand up I am a

12:31

son of that conflict and I know exactly

12:33

what's going on there not only from the

12:35

Palestinian point of view but also from

12:38

the Israeli uh point of view then you

12:41

invite me to come join a revolution what

12:44

Revolution you are talking about you are

12:46

just creating chaos it's the revolution

12:49

only for the sake of Revolution at some

12:52

point some 30 years ago I believed just

12:55

like you today I know a different truth

12:59

and I don't Advocate on behalf of a

13:01

revolution that does not have sight that

13:04

does not have any moral compass that is

13:07

a

13:08

revolution only for the sake of

13:10

Revolution so before you tell me about

13:13

your Revolution and about your protest

13:15

tell me about your objectives what's

13:17

your goal what's your agenda what's your

13:20

agenda who is your leadership the

13:23

American parents have the right to be

13:25

concerned when they see masked men on

13:27

campuses we don't know who the hell they

13:30

are they could be activists and they

13:33

could be the devil so parents have the

13:36

right to say we don't want want masked

13:38

men with foreign agendas on our campuses

13:42

because you don't have a leadership and

13:45

tomorrow if the hit the fan who is

13:48

going to be held accountable for this

13:50

situation who do we go after why your

13:53

protest is not registered according the

13:55

American laws you are just creating

13:58

chaos borrowing some victim narrative

14:01

from the Middle East and trying to

14:03

americanize it trying to globalize it

14:06

and what we say as a person who lived

14:08

the

14:09

1987 intifada we don't want intifada in

14:13

America we don't want intifa in the west

14:16

and we most certainly don't want a

14:19

global

14:20

antifa okay Rama before you speak in

14:24

response to that hang on R I wanted just

14:26

because last week you spoke at the

14:27

University of Southern California

14:29

at one of the protests which uh was just

14:31

referenced by mosab there um I want to

14:34

play a clip from what you were saying

14:35

there just take a

14:37

listen we are patient we are patient we

14:43

are

14:45

resilience we are

14:47

resilience we are proud We are

14:53

proud that was you uh addressing a crowd

14:57

there I mean nothing insane cury in what

15:00

you were saying there but we have seen

15:02

many of these University protests people

15:05

openly talking about inada openly

15:07

talking chanting from The River To The

15:09

Sea uh others brazenly supporting Hamas

15:14

can you understand why Jewish students

15:16

at these campuses feel so threatened by

15:21

this really because when I was there

15:23

they were predominantly Jewish students

15:25

who were protesting they were

15:27

predominantly Jewish students that were

15:30

protesting even in the UCLA one one I I

15:34

don't think I don't know if I'm able to

15:36

say his name but one very prominent

15:39

Jewish scholar was side by side with me

15:42

in the protest in order to because at

15:45

the end of the day we we felt bad for

15:48

these students because they're the ones

15:50

facing police brutality as Mr Hassan

15:53

said they're the ones facing

15:55

infiltrators who are attempting to

15:57

discredit them it was bizarre to see one

16:00

student pose as a pro Palestinian

16:03

protester and then write uh inciting

16:06

chants on the ground and the quickly the

16:09

pro Palestinian students rushed to to

16:12

scrub it off at the end of the day um

16:15

though Mr Hassan wants to make it into

16:17

this political uh political Endeavor

16:20

again this is older and this is bigger

16:24

than Hames and it is much bigger than

16:26

you sir what is happening now is these

16:29

people these students are simply stating

16:32

the slaughter of children is wrong The

16:35

Siege is wrong abducting people for

16:38

liking posts in other parts of Palestine

16:41

is wrong the the the harassment of women

16:45

continuously is wrong and the fact that

16:48

we're having to even debate this is the

16:51

most bizarre thing of the 21st century

16:53

because you're having this because you

16:56

you'd hear about Vietnam or you'd hear

16:57

about but wasn't so recorded as much as

17:01

this genocide let me ask you this let me

17:04

ask you this Rama let me ask you this

17:06

because I asked you a question early

17:07

which you haven't replied to yet because

17:09

you you wanted to say something else at

17:10

the time so I ask you to you again how

17:12

should Israel have responded to this

17:14

terror attack on October the 7th 1,200

17:17

people were massacred and the people who

17:19

perpetrated this the Hamas terrorists

17:21

they were brazenly broadcasting a lot of

17:24

their despicable acts of Terror to the

17:26

world proud of it how should Israel when

17:30

presented with an existential threat

17:32

like that and when the Hamas spokesman

17:35

responds a few days later by saying

17:36

we're going to do this again and again

17:38

and again if we can how should Israel

17:40

have

17:43

responded but Hames leadership has also

17:47

tried again and again and again to uh

17:50

bring to to to call for a choose and

17:53

bring back the hostages which has been

17:54

denied from Netanyahu that's also hang

17:57

on that they should but hang on itated I

17:59

don't think hamash should be given any

18:00

credit for keeping hostages they

18:03

kidnapped Holocaust Survivors they

18:04

kidnapped babies they shouldn't have

18:06

been kidnapping anybody so should be

18:08

they should be giving back the hostages

18:09

anyway but my point to you which again

18:11

you haven't answered yet I'm curious

18:12

what your answer is how should Israel

18:15

have responded if you'd allow me

18:17

continue such a grotesque terror attack

18:20

both of you stop cutting me off I will

18:22

continue just answer the question I cut

18:23

you off I would I would very much like

18:25

to continue yeah no no I will I will

18:28

answer the question the way I see fit

18:30

the way I talk you are not going to

18:32

school me as to how to respond sir now

18:35

to my point 7th of October did not

18:38

happen in a vacuum another bigger

18:41

problem is that you've had lies being

18:44

regurgitated by officials from the 7th

18:47

of October I urge everyone to check uh

18:51

www. tech for pin.com which gives the

18:54

truth and the proper research as to

18:57

what's unfolded on the seventh of

18:59

October we don't need to read anything

19:01

hang on sorry I'm sorry look you can't

19:03

re revisit need to read you keep cutting

19:06

me off this

19:07

isre I'm not cutting you off Rama I'm

19:10

challenging you as I will by the

19:12

way let me no you can challeng once I am

19:15

done as I just said Hamas broadcast what

19:18

they were doing to the world you don't

19:20

need any report when you have people

19:22

literally showing you on social media

19:24

what you're doing and boasting about it

19:29

it is very you know you know something

19:31

that I've realized through these debates

19:34

is that it doesn't end up being a debate

19:37

it ends up being that I'm trying to

19:39

convince you that Palestinian life is

19:43

worth it but I agree is is as important

19:46

you don't have to convince me at all it

19:47

is quite completely agree that that is I

19:50

don't why you trying to convin the palan

19:53

matter I'm not

20:00

I I don't even have a response to this

20:02

this is a

20:03

very low conversation sir you said

20:07

you're trying to convince me that

20:08

Palestinian lives are worth it I said of

20:11

course they're worth it I'm not trying

20:12

to convince you

20:14

what but you're not acting like it is if

20:17

if you saw that you wouldn't be bringing

20:19

me back to the 7th of

20:22

October the 40,000 Palestinians who've

20:25

been killed but October the 7th started

20:27

this whole War really yes it did that's

20:31

not again this is this is thank you for

20:34

pointing out the exact issue that we

20:36

have here when you bring it to the point

20:39

of that this started from the 7th of

20:41

October that is the problem this war

20:43

started October 7 issue of the SE there

20:45

was a ceas fire before that no sir no

20:48

sir well there was no sir I am I am very

20:51

sorry to say that and and and the that

20:55

Palestinians living the way they were at

20:58

as second class citizens on their land

21:01

even and not just in West Bank or that's

21:02

a different question or GZA a different

21:05

question to which I would say I agree

21:07

with you definitively that is Def the

21:09

point with I agree with you sir you

21:12

oppress a people then let me finish if

21:14

you agree with me how what are you

21:16

agreeing with I want you to answer my

21:18

original question about how should

21:20

Israel have responded to that terror

21:22

attack it's a straightforward question

21:24

what should they have done your your

21:26

your question by ending this Siege by

21:29

ending apartheid by realizing that this

21:32

is not a sustainable solution to keep

21:34

oppressing a people I'll tell you

21:36

something interesting there is blatant

21:39

attacks like I I blatantly kill you but

21:41

there is something that we don't realize

21:43

that hurts sometimes even more the

21:45

intangible the disrespect the

21:48

checkpoints one day I one day at one of

21:52

these checkpoints and the amount of

21:54

disrespect these people have to go

21:56

through the fact that at one point in

21:59

the West Bank a settler can just walk

22:02

into your home Walts into your home

22:04

destroy your home take it and be backed

22:07

by a soldier the utter disrespect of

22:11

having so much Injustice there was this

22:13

one Palestinian who said our heart

22:15

breaks every day over a hundred times

22:19

what on Earth how is this

22:22

sustainable this is the longest Siege on

22:25

any place in history let me ask you're

22:28

going to have a seventh of October of

22:30

course you're going to have resistance

22:32

point pressure here's my problem I okay

22:35

I'm going to go to m but here's my point

22:37

about that I would say that I agree with

22:39

you a lot of the settlements

22:40

particularly the expanded settlements in

22:43

the last few months we've seen are

22:44

completely outrageous and indefensible

22:46

and should not be happening I completely

22:48

agree with you but when you say that of

22:50

course October 7 is going to happen no

22:53

absolutely not there was nothing to

22:55

justify a terror attack on that scale

22:57

let let me go to m we've been waiting

23:00

patiently here hang on go to m m let me

23:02

ask you about that issue of the

23:04

settlements what is your view about

23:06

expanding settlements in the way that

23:08

Israel's been doing because it seems to

23:09

me that they are crossing a line when

23:11

they do that which is completely

23:18

indefensible well speaking of uh uh

23:21

settlements or what so-called

23:23

settlements those are cities uh of

23:25

hundreds of thousands of people the this

23:28

was the result of the

23:30

1967 uh War when the Arab countries

23:33

United wanted to annihilate uh the state

23:36

of

23:37

Israel uh Arabs had their opportunity

23:40

back in 1948 to declare their

23:42

independence they had equal opportunity

23:45

like the Jewish people uh the Jewish

23:48

people fought the British coloni uh

23:52

colonialism and they shed blood and

23:55

eventually they earned their uh

23:57

Independence but in in 1948 instead of

24:00

the Arabs declaring their independence

24:02

they declared war against the Jewish

24:04

people there was no such Palestine at

24:07

that time they were just

24:09

Arabs and uh in the uh British era of

24:16

colonialism uh Jews Arabs Drews

24:19

Christians everybody in that area was

24:21

called the Palestinian the Palestinian

24:24

is a colonial entity it's it was not a

24:27

country and it was not a nationality it

24:30

was just uh a 25 year uh uh period so

24:35

now when we uh convinced ourselves that

24:40

we were Palestinians because of yasat

24:43

wanted us to be

24:45

Palestinians uh the chaos had begun and

24:49

now uh Palestinian is nothing but the

24:53

victim narrative that we don't want to

24:57

take responsibility for the choices that

24:59

we have made uh 70 years of conflict and

25:04

how many opportunities the Palestinians

25:06

are what's so-called Palestinians it's

25:09

not a real thing there are Arab Arab

25:11

children they have the birth right to be

25:13

there and they Israel has 2 million of

25:16

those so the allegation of aperti

25:19

doesn't make sense it's just a broken

25:22

record by all those who have been trying

25:25

to delegitimize Israel it has nothing to

25:29

do in in reality then the victim

25:32

narrative goes

25:34

on the uh 1967 borders this was area

25:39

which is the West Bank it was under the

25:41

control of Jordan and the Gaza was under

25:45

the control of Egypt they were Egypt and

25:48

Jordanian territories it was not a

25:51

Palestine today Israel has peace with

25:54

Egypt and with Jordan so when when the

25:58

Arabs launched a war and they lost the

26:01

War in 1967 Israel captured some

26:05

territory this is the consequences of

26:08

War this is the and the Arabs don't want

26:11

to accept the consequences of defeat

26:15

instead of saying we were

26:17

defeated and Israel won now they played

26:21

the victim card they have been playing

26:24

the victim card for 70 years and instead

26:28

of accepting what is on the table to

26:31

coexist with Israel basically Israel was

26:34

willing to withdraw from the West Bank

26:36

and Gaza that offer was on the table in

26:39

2000 and yasat rejected that because the

26:43

revolution has no purpose the revolution

26:46

is only for the sake of Revolution bunch

26:49

of C artists who only want to gain money

26:53

and power this is their game and they

26:56

have been using Arab children

26:59

assassinated after please let me please

27:03

let me finish please please don't

27:04

interrupt me please I did not interrupt

27:06

you so now the situation got out of

27:10

control the uh false Narrative of a

27:15

victim became Global it's a definitely a

27:19

best-seller narrative but it's not a

27:21

true story The Very basis of it the very

27:25

Foundation of what so-called palis is

27:28

not real because in reality there is no

27:31

such thing now to build all this false

27:34

accusations of aptide of genocide of

27:38

ethnic cleansing only the Jewish people

27:40

in the Middle East suffered ethnic

27:42

cleansing and displacement only the

27:45

Jewish people the Arabs did not suffer

27:48

the same consequences of the 1967 war

27:52

because Israel did not force them to

27:55

leave uh the territory after the war War

27:58

while Egypt Egypt your country gave the

28:01

Jewish people a 24-hour notice to depart

28:06

Egypt but the Jewish people did not do

28:09

the same towards the Arabs that and this

28:12

is how we have two million Arabs in

28:13

Israel so all the accusations they're

28:17

just

28:18

baseless and this is how they have been

28:21

spreading uh lies to delegitimize Israel

28:26

without telling us even what pal is what

28:29

does it stand for is it a nation what do

28:32

they want to achieve this Revolution and

28:34

This Global chaos what's their ultimate

28:36

goal I would like to know and most

28:38

importantly who is their leadership is

28:41

it the Palestinian Authority is it Hamas

28:44

is it the Islamic Jihad is it the this

28:46

new generation of pro Palestine that

28:49

they they are irrelevant to the

28:52

suffering of the Arab and Jewish

28:54

Children of the region let me go to Rama

28:56

for your your response I mean what is

28:58

the answer to that question who who is

29:00

in charge of the Palestinians who should

29:03

be in charge going forward do you see

29:05

any role for Hamas at the end of this

29:09

war it's not up to me as uh Mr Hassan

29:13

clearly stated I am Egyptian this is

29:15

this movement is for the people of

29:18

Palestine and it is very dangerous what

29:21

you said Mr Hassan because this maybe is

29:23

what even started this whole thing when

29:25

you had a group of immigrants coming in

29:28

and stating this is a a people without a

29:32

land for a land without a people there

29:34

was always a people they were the people

29:35

of Palestine and especially when we talk

29:38

about history it you have to also note

29:41

what was happening in the rest of the

29:43

world that this was a point where where

29:45

most countries were colonized and there

29:48

was this whole uh movement to

29:50

decolonized and there was nationalism

29:52

you can't just give this brief history

29:55

lesson without talking about it in

29:57

length and if you want to do so we can

30:00

by all means do so but I don't think we

30:02

have the time and so the most important

30:07

thing to note here just as I clearly

30:09

stated when we were at the protest

30:11

yesterday it's predominantly uh it was

30:14

predominantly Palestinian Christians

30:15

because you have uh IDF soldiers uh

30:19

having this the one church that is left

30:22

in GZA is under siege where a mother

30:25

went out because she needed the bathroom

30:27

they shot her and then they shot her

30:29

daughter who came to help her this is

30:31

what you are dealing with sir what piece

30:34

are you talking about for a person to be

30:36

able to look at a child that is starving

30:40

that is running towards Aid and shooting

30:42

them if you're not going to stand up now

30:45

when you see such war crimes happening

30:49

daily on your phones and not say that

30:52

something is very wrong right here what

30:54

are you expecting the world to look like

30:57

after this what are you expecting with

30:59

the polarization with the with with the

31:01

hatred that is then going to ensue

31:03

people are so hurt there the the the

31:07

videos that we are having to watch Daily

31:09

Now of families trapped under Rubble in

31:12

what world is it normal for a mother to

31:15

go get Aid and come back to find that

31:17

her house has been flattened that her

31:19

family has been

31:21

slaughtered these are these are

31:23

thousands how is it that in mere five

31:25

months we're talking about a for ,000

31:28

casualty these are not numbers these are

31:32

people with

31:33

stories what are you how are you

31:36

justifying what you are justifying when

31:38

a son finds out that his father has been

31:41

killed so

31:43

easily what do you have to say to this

31:46

person what do you have to say to this

31:47

child West Bank ask let me ask you what

31:49

you has to say must your response to

31:54

that look very important to understand

31:57

the

31:58

of

31:59

suffering and the cycle of violence is a

32:02

very long vicious cycle of violence and

32:04

I think the root cause of this is the

32:07

false narrative and the victim narrative

32:10

instead of taking responsibility we

32:13

blame

32:14

everybody the suffering of the Gin do

32:17

you think you are the only ones who see

32:20

the suffering of the uh

32:22

Gins you're not the only one and the but

32:26

in war people suffer please

32:29

sir I am from the West Bank this is my

32:32

birthplace and I know what's going on

32:34

there and I know all artists who have

32:37

been

32:38

hijacking generation after generation

32:41

they don't care for the children they

32:43

don't care for Humanity all the their

32:46

game is for power and money this is what

32:49

they do so now the situation in Gaz we

32:52

call it a human shield situation a

32:56

society that has been jacked by

32:59

islamists who don't value life their

33:02

purpose in the other life not in this

33:04

life hence they want to destroy Israel

33:07

and they want to destroy all other

33:10

civilizations and this is why we don't

33:12

accept this then it doesn't matter what

33:15

happened before before October 7 October

33:19

7 cannot be justified as resistance what

33:23

happened was

33:25

barbaric what happened was savagery what

33:29

happened was beyond any imagination this

33:33

is what ethnic cleansing and genocide

33:35

really means when you kill can I

33:39

communities wipe them out because of

33:42

their religion because of their religion

33:44

and ethnic

33:46

background what's happening in Gaza not

33:48

because of the ethnic and religious

33:51

background of gazans what's Happening

33:54

Now in Gaza because if their governing

33:56

Authority choose to make a stupid stunt

33:59

and wiping out 20 peaceful Jewish

34:03

communities that they had nothing to do

34:05

including kidnapping babies and elders

34:08

and women and what is this we are in the

34:12

21st century and we have to stop these

34:14

Savages be before they become an Empire

34:17

it's our responsibility to fight and the

34:20

foot soldiers in Gazza let me tell you

34:23

something those soldiers they have

34:25

families they are humans they are my

34:28

friends they are sacred Warriors who are

34:31

fighting on behalf of civilization to

34:33

stop Savages from taking over Warriors

34:36

don't tell me about the Suffering The

34:38

Suffering of gazans is the outcome of

34:41

Hamas taking human Shields this is the

34:44

outcome this is Hamas crime about the

34:46

suffering of Palestinians in the West

34:48

Bank not committing a crime against

34:50

humanity okay Isel is fighting in Gaza

34:54

following all

34:58

listen listen very important this is

35:00

very important Israel is following War

35:03

protocol in Gaza Hamas broke every

35:07

protocol moral Universal protocol in

35:11

this war well it may be it may be of

35:14

course that it turns out Israel has been

35:16

committing some war crimes in Gaza we

35:18

will see but let me ask you Rama you

35:20

were going to you wanted to ask a

35:21

question directly of mosa what was that

35:25

yes I I I I I think forgot but I I want

35:29

to just say one thing uh regarding what

35:32

you said sir about the foot soldiers

35:34

your honorable foot soldiers have been

35:37

filming themselves boasting their war

35:40

crimes in dinosaur suits I believe as

35:44

well as Dawning uh Palestinian female

35:47

laundry of dead and displaced

35:49

Palestinian women uh I I I would assume

35:52

that would enrage you as a Palestinian

35:55

uh they've also been uh recording their

35:58

war crimes that had been used then that

36:00

have been taken and used in Criminal

36:02

Courts and if anything have just

36:06

showcased the audacity and the

36:08

confidence that they have when they

36:11

conduct their war crimes

36:14

um I I I you're you're you your also

36:18

stated uh you

36:20

were I I I honestly forgot the the the

36:23

rant put me off so um okay well let me

36:25

let me let me end by I remembered I'm

36:28

sorry I remembered I sir you say that

36:31

you you you you use very big terms how

36:35

would you then describe the slaughter of

36:38

40,000 people and away from GDA I want

36:42

you to explain to me how is it that you

36:45

find it normal and what you expect of a

36:48

child that is taken and kidnapped from

36:51

his home from his family from the West

36:54

Bank okay is it normal that you have

36:57

children

36:58

being charged with mil under under

37:01

military law is this something you

37:03

believe is is is sustainable okay let me

37:07

give the final answer to to

37:10

mosab sure well are you talking about

37:13

baby kir whose uh first uh birthday was

37:17

in Hamas captivity is this the child you

37:19

are talking about because Israel does

37:21

not kidnap children I'm talking about

37:24

thousands of

37:25

children they do they do sir there there

37:28

is no such thing as thousands of

37:30

children the entire Palestinian

37:32

prisoners they are

37:34

not say mostly children and and please

37:39

when you say uh war crimes war crimes

37:41

you're just repeating like a par

37:43

whatever you know they told you there is

37:45

no war crime Israel is following the war

37:48

protocol in Gaza and I will never take

37:50

the cover of those soldiers who are

37:52

risking their lives regular Bas you are

37:55

the one that has been repeating yourself

37:57

as a

37:58

listened to your of is being abducted

38:02

and

38:04

keep to help me you are going to discuss

38:07

what is happening in the west instead

38:09

they sent what about the hospitals that

38:11

are being bombed what about the

38:13

universities what about the hospital

38:15

what about the universities what about

38:17

What's happen tunnels and bunkers and

38:19

command centers undera with Hames is not

38:23

a collective issue sir your Vendetta

38:25

with Hames whatever it may be is not

38:27

Collective issue again not with h ham is

38:30

a criminal is a criminal dangerous

38:33

terrorist organization we have to we

38:36

have can we try an exercise Pierce can

38:39

we can we just try one last thing can we

38:41

try say to your credit listen let me

38:44

just say to your credit to both of you

38:46

I've done lots of interviews and debates

38:49

in the last few weeks most of which have

38:50

descended into slanging matches you two

38:53

have managed to avoid that for for the

38:55

main and Mis debate and I appreciate the

38:57

where you've allowed each other to speak

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and have your say I think we get a lot

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further in trying to understand the

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complexities of the situation and indeed

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the passions uh on both sides and I

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think you've both articulated those very

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well so thank you very much indeed for

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joining me I appreciate it