Piers Morgan vs Ben Shapiro | On Israel-Hamas, Candace Owens And More

you're going to co-host a fundraiser for

Donald Trump yesterday Trump said this

you have to finish up your War you have

to finish it up you got to get it done

did he mean Israel should be able to

continue to try and eliminate all of

Hamas or did he mean they should bring

things to an end now and they should now

move to try and find peace the world

does not seem to have the attention span

to maintain any level of support for

anyone whether you're talking about

Ukraine or whether you're talking about

Israel for a prolonged period of time in

a war against a ter enemy and so when

President Trump says something like you

need to finish this up I think that he's

speaking a baseline truth there a

majority of people in Israel want to get

rid of Netanyahu but the polls show is

that Israelis would love to have another

election but they've had five elections

in four years it's it's always sort of

weird when people talk about Israel

needs a new election they have more new

elections than Taylor Swift has outfit

changes during one of her concerts I am

dressed up as a c ens what is your

reaction to that clip I mean the phrase

in Hebrew is that's what we would call a

hash right it's a it's a desecration of

God's name do you think he should be

given air time anymore that sort of

behavior is is disgusting in any context

frankly I don't know an orthodox Jew who

feels differently about that not one and

dis who's now left daily wire was she

fired or did she leave of her own bition

as far as the Free Speech situation what

I will say is that no company has the

obligation to literally pay

anyone the UN Security Council is

demanding an immediate ceasefire in Gaza

after the US failed to veto his

resolution leaving Israel increasingly

isolated on the world stage President

Biden's relationship with prime minister

Netanyahu has collapsed over the rising

Palestinian death toll now Donald Trump

has warned it's time for Israel to

finish up the war as it hemorrhages

international support So can and should

Israel press on alone to discuss this

and much more I'm joined by the daily

wies editor Emeritus and host of The

Divided states of Biden on daily y plus

Ben shapira Ben great to see you

hey good to see you pierce how are you

you know hanging in how are you awful

wonder how many people ask you that

question yeah I don't get that too much

so I was kind of surprised by the

question

honestly I'm gonna come to uh some stuff

that's involved you recently but let's

start with Israel um you're going to

co-host a fundraiser for Donald Trump

yesterday Trump said

this that being said you have to finish

up your War finish it up you got to get

it done and uh I'm sure you'll do that

and we got to get to peace you can't

have this going on uh and I will say

Israel has to be very careful because

you're losing a lot of the world you're

losing a lot of support but you have to

finish up you have to get the job done

and you have to get on to peace what did

you make of what he said there there's

been a bit of disagreement about what he

intended to mean did he mean Israel

should be able to continue to try and

eliminate all of Hamas whatever it takes

to finish that job or did he mean they

should they should bring things to an

end now they've done enough and they

should now move to try and find peace so

I actually did host co-host a fundraiser

with President Trump last week and we

did briefly speak about this topic my

impression is that President Trump is

saying what is certainly true here which

is that the the clock has been ticking

on Israel literally since October 7th in

terms of finishing up its operation the

world does not seem to have the

attention span to maintain any level of

support for anyone whether you're

talking about Ukraine where you're

talking about Israel for a prolonged

period of time in a war against a

terrible enemy and so when President

Trump says something like you need to

finish this up I think that he's

speaking a baseline truth there which is

that Israel does need to hurry and and

finish this up and frankly they should

have been moving faster in the first

place I think it's more of a PR Point

than it is an idea that Israel should

should stop for example by by not going

into Rafa I I don't think that's what

president Trump is saying there do you

feel comfortable but we talked about

this war a lot do you feel comfortable

about a Full Assault on Rafa if 1 and a

half million people remain in that

vicinity including majority women and

children because it would obviously be

in that instance devastating in terms of

Civilian casualties and would pour even

more pressure on Israel and lose them

even more support I mean do do you think

this is the right

strategy well I think that Israel is is

pretty United in its belief that it is

and Israel I think is best positioned to

adjudicate its own interests when it

comes to things like like you're talking

about whether it's international support

or the future of of the Gaza Strip my

understanding is from from all of the

public discussions that have been

happening that there's significant

discussion about how to try to move

civilians out of the way one of the big

problems has been that Egypt won't open

the gate even temporarily to allow

enough civilians outside of Rafa so that

Israel can perform operations inside of

Rafa apparently there are four Hamas

battalions that are currently located

inside of Rafa I'm sure that if the

United States are the International

Community could offer Israel some sort

of Harry Potter spell to disappear all

of the Kamas terrorists inside I'm sure

Israel would take it the last thing

Israel wants to do is maximize civilian

casualties what's been perfectly obvious

is that Hamas has precisely the opposite

view they would love to maximize

civilian casualties because the the

increasing civilian death toll as you've

pointed out has been the single Factor

that's been leading to increased

pressure on Israel to leave Hamas alone

what do you make of Biden uh really

turning on Netanyahu I mean this this

decision not to veto this resolution is

the latest escalation really in the

American Administration under Biden

reigning back its support of Israel how

significant is that and what do you

think about Biden doing this I mean

obviously I think that he's morally

wrong to to abstain from a resolution

that seems to disconnect the hostage

situation from the ceasefire all of the

versions the United States had been

pushing prior suggested that in order

for a ceasefire to be called for or

attained there had to be a release of

the hostages this particular version of

the UN resolution sort of separates off

the two issues doesn't mention Hamas

doesn't mention October 7th that's

that's the point of contention with with

regard to the UN Security Council

resolution the United States abstained

from as far as the sort of increased

pressure that that Biden or Chuck

Schumer the Senate Majority Leader here

have been putting on the Netanyahu

Administration frankly I think it's it's

political dishonesty I think that there

there are a lot of members of the

democratic party who are very critical

of Israel's government full scale

they're trying to put it on Netanyahu

because they realize that a lot of the

sort of liberal Jewish base in the

United States that votes Democrat

supports Israel but also doesn't like

Netanyahu very much but they're ignoring

the central reality in Israel which is

that there is fullscale public support

for going into Rafa from right left and

center the current government of the

state of Israel is a war cabinet

including the chief rival to Benjamin

Netanyahu benians who just vote who just

visited the United States and in fact

was treated to much of the same language

by the Biden Administration to so to

suggest that it's sort of netanyahu's

own political domestic manipulations

leading to his desire to go into Rafa

Netanyahu is in fact correct when he

suggest that there is Broad public

support for going into Rafa and in fact

if the current War cabinet does not go

into Rafa there's a very solid chance

that the government of Israel Falls in

their new elections I mean that is true

about the support definitely but it's

also true that a majority of people in

Israel want to get rid of Netanyahu so

this is a support for but not during but

not during not during the actual

conflict right what the polls show is

that Israelis would love to have another

election but not right at the moment

meaning that they've had five elections

in four years it's it's always sort of

weird when people talk about Israel

needs a new election they have more new

elections than Taylor Swift has outfit

changes during one of our concerts it's

not as though there's a lack of

Elections I do find it sort of strange

that there's always a call for new

elections in Israel which again has many

many elections I have yet to hear for a

call for elections in say the West Bank

or Gaza Strip where there has not been

an election since 2005 and there's a

reason for that and the reason for that

is because everybody understands if

there were an election in the Gaza

stripper West Bank Kamas would actually

win what I don't understand about

Israel's strategy is how they perceive

actual Victory yes you can take out the

30 to 35,000 Hamas terrorists yeah maybe

they can do that and maybe in the

process of that they kill tens of

thousands more civilians and have to

deal with the uh with the uh contention

that that will cause worldwide and maybe

Israelis don't care about that part long

to get rid of Hamas so let's get to an

end game where Hamas has gone why does

leveling Gaza and killing so many

civilians why would that give anyone in

Israel any kind of comfort that that

would that would kill off the ideology

that fueled Hamas that it wouldn't

actually just lead to an increase in

that IDE ology more hatred towards

Israelis more hatred towards Jewish

people I've never quite understood what

the end game looks like here for Israel

that makes Israel more secure well I

mean the end game presumably is security

not a sort of dynamic ideological

scoring among a population that right

now overwhelmingly supports the October

7th attacks and prior to October 7th

overwhelmingly supported Terror attacks

against the state of Israel and

overwhelmingly supported the destruction

of the state of Israel the sort of idea

that more conciliation from Israel was

bring bringing about peaceful conditions

with the Palestinian Authority or with

Hamas has been obviously proved false by

the fact that Israel literally withdrew

all IDF forces from the Gaza Strip in

2005 kamasa control they spent the last

20 years turning it into a giant Terror

base from the Israeli perspective my

assumption is that what they are

figuring is degrade hamas's military

capacity such that they cannot be an

offensive threat to the state of Israel

and then try to enact some sort of

military control of the area sufficient

to prevent any future threat from

arising from that area I'm sure that

Israel would love to hand the area over

to Egypt Egypt says no Egypt doesn't

want any part of it Israel would love to

hand it over to Jordan Jordan says no

Jordan doesn't want any part of it

Israel's tried to hand it over to the

Saudis to the UAE to the United States

to literally anyone no one wants to run

that area specifically because the

population is already quite radicalized

and was radicalized before October 7th

and so what you're probably going to end

up with and I said this I think the

first time I appeared on the show which

was shortly after October 7th in in this

context what you're probably going to

end up with is some form of joint

military rule in the Gaza Strip in which

Israel has the intelligence capacity to

go in and conduct raids in in Terror hot

beds the same way that they do right now

for example in the West Bank jday in

Samaria places like Janine places like

nablo the IDF is constantly attempting

to go in and root out Terror cells in

these particular areas one of the big

flaws that led to October 7th was the

fact that Israel had no forces on the

ground and no actual intelligence

capability inside the Gaza

Strip one of the consequences of this

war has been a lot of very high passions

on both sides a lot of angry

disagreements you and your company have

been at the center of a very uh

high-profile one at the moment with

Candice Owens who's now left daily wire

um was she fired or did she leave of her

own

bition I'm not going to speak to this

topic F at all at all you can't give me

any uh insight into why she departed no

hints no nothing I'm not going to speak

to this C can I ask can I ask why I mean

you can ask no no I'm can ask why you

don't want to say anything um again you

can

ask I mean I mean I I'm only curious

because I know what a a staunch defender

of free speech you are and it would

surprise me if it had been someone's

opinions that would make you want to par

company with them however cont suffice

to say the only thing I will say is what

I've said all along with regard to

Candice or with regard to any of our

other hosts I am not in hiring and

firing position with the daily wire I'm

a co-founder of the daily wire I'm a

co-owner of the daily wire I'm not

actually in management Jeremy boring and

Caleb Robinson are in management

positions with regard to Candice or

anyone else and as far as the Free

Speech situation what I will say is that

no company has the obligation to

literally pay anyone the the daily wire

is a is a publisher it is not a platform

I've never called for Candace or anyone

else for that matter to be banned from

YouTube to be banned from X to be banned

from any platform that's a different

story obviously when it it comes to any

publisher any publisher gets to make

decisions about what it wishes to uh

what it wishes to pry and not I mean I'm

just not going to label this but one

more point I would make is it's been

reported extensively that the reason for

her departure was because her comments

have been perceived by people at the

daily wire as

anti-semitic again I'm I'm not going to

comment on this Pi okay Rabbi smooy

would you comment on him because Jeremy

has actually commented on Rabbi schy

said I've avoided commenting publicly on

Rabbi schmi because as far as I can tell

the man is an attention of the

highest order is that the general

position of the company on Mr schi I

mean that that's my personal position

for sure I mean I I think that you know

Rabbi schi happens to be a person with

whom I agree on some matters related to

say Middle East policy and uh I I also

believe that his Devotion to camera and

notoriety have made him do some

untethered things in in recent days I

mean there's a clip I'm just going to

play it and you can comment or otherwise

but it was extraordinary to me we've had

him on this show a few times but I found

this really quite extraordinary let's

take a look worm is a day of Celebration

we feel bad for Candace Owens that she

lost her job so I figure with her image

of what Jews are supposed to look like

why not Val at least validator I am

dressed up as a Candace Owens Jew now

this is not a Christian Child this

Jewish child but if it would be I got my

Christian blood M spicy delicious I got

my Jewish nose I have have filth cuz

Jews are all filth and more than

anything else what does AD have

money I mean what is your reaction to

that to that clip I mean the phrase in

Hebrews that's what we would call a

hasem right it's a it's a desecration of

God's name and that sort of behavior is

is disgusting in any context uh and uh

frankly I don't know an orthodox Jew who

feels differently about that not one do

you think he should be given air time

anymore

Raby I mean I'm not going to make

decisions about who should Heir him and

who should not what I will say is that

the that that sort of behavior is

untethered from reality and and makes

mockery of much of the uh the mission

for for people like me which includes

fighting anti-Semitism yeah but I get a

lot of people actually after his most

recent appearance here just saying this

guy does not speak for most Jewish

people like me and they they write in

their drones and they say please stop

having someone on the I mean what he's

doing there certainly doesn't speak for

literally any Jew that I can that I've

heard of or know I mean I can't speak to

his positions on Israel again you know

my positions on Israel speak for my

positions on Israel but that's a

different story from dressing up in a

dmer costume uh to to mock anti-Semitism

I think that that's quite you know

counterproductive and and especially

given the the online discourse pretty

pretty negative in pretty much every way

I can think of

yeah Russia and what happened there was

a terror attack by ISIS k um people have

made some parallels they said look

there's a massive terror attack on the

heart of Russia in Moscow uh 130 people

brutally murdered Putin uh and the

Kremlin know where these terrorists came

from and a specific area would it be

logical given the way that Israel

responded to uh the Hamas attack on

October the 7th for Putin to go and do

the same thing that Israel's done in

Gaza to the area where these terrorists

came from I mean so first of all Putin

has done that historically many times

over whether you're talking about Chia

or whether you're talking about other

areas uh as F and nobody seemed to bat

an eyelash when it was Vladimir Putin

doing that so I'll first point that out

second of all I don't see the

international pressure to give Isis K or

its allies estate in the aftermath of a

mass terror attack I don't see a lot of

calls for Putin to act with tremendous

restraint in the aftermath of that

terror attack and frankly I think it's

very unlikely that Putin is going to do

anything like rooting out Isis K in in

the are in Tajikistan or wherever else

the these people are coming from seems

more focused on trying to misdirect this

terror attack into an attack on Ukraine

which is I think pretty disgusting yeah

I mean it is disgusting it's completely

untrue obviously uh but it's something

that in the world of disinformation that

we we exist in now is gaining currency I

see it online that a lot of people who

have a bent towards Russia and Putin

they're quite happy to believe that

Ukraine was behind this I mean the

amount of of misinformation on on

various social media Outlets is

extraordinary right now the velocity is

extraordinary right now and pretty much

any conspiracy theory is capable of

gaining just unbelievable legs very very

quickly what do we do about it bam I

mean the only thing you can do is is try

to speak fact into what appears to be a

vacuum the thing I've been encouraging

people to do more and more often is go

outside and touch some grass man I mean

seriously the online world is a terrible

place and then you turn it off and you

go outside and you talk to normal people

for five minutes and they are much

happier and actually exist in a world of

reality it's this own self-contained

Nether world where some of the some of

the most conspiratorial people hang out

and create Echo Chambers for one another

and whoever can say the loudest

conspiracy theory gets the most

engagement the best way to do this I

recommend to everybody God was right

take the seventh day off turn off your

electronics get out of the house go to

church like do something worthwhile with

your life for five minutes you know I

got into a bit of a spat with Elon Musk

because I had an interview lined up with

him and he canceled at the last minute

because I criticized him a month earlier

and he found the clip on this show

actually I criticized him for allowing

Alex Jones back on the platform having

originally said he wouldn't let him back

on because he wouldn't let people stand

on the the day at the graves of dead

children and make money from it in the

way that he'd been doing was he right to

let Alex Jones back on if you look at

Alex Jones's feed on XM the last few

weeks he spewing endless conspiracy

theories to quite a big audience does

that not unnecessarily unfairly wrongly

Fu the kind of toxic nature of of

discourse that you were talking about

yes so again I'll go back to the

distinction that I was making earlier

between platform and publisher I

wouldn't hire Alex Jones or pay him to

purvey his views here at Daily wire even

if I had the power to do so but a

platform is a different thing I think

what Elon is trying to do with X for

good or ill and I think it's come with

with some of both is to broaden the

scope of free speech try to turn it into

a into a Town Square that's going to

come along with an awful lot of people

who are who are using that Town Square

to throw feces against the wall what do

you make of the Don Lemon musk interview

and the

Fallout um I I mean I frankly I thought

that that Don didn't do a particularly

good job with that with that interview

I'll be honest with you um but with all

of that said as far as far as the

Fallout of it again between Elon and Don

making their business decisions that

that is up to them one thing I noticed

Don Lemon can still post his show on X

he just doesn't have to be paid by Elon

for it what I was surprised by was that

Don Lemon did that interview exactly how

I expected Don Lemon to do that

interview I was surprised that Elon mus

was surprised that Don Lemon was Don

Lemon you know the the media is a pretty

adversarial place and I I I think that

you know again I'm not going to speak to

elon's level of surprise I will say that

Don Lemon being Don Lemon is very Don

Lemon of him I mean nothing surprising

there we woke up this morning to this

Dreadful story in Baltimore with this

bridge collapsing a lot of really

bizarre unanswered questions you know

how did the power on this on this cargo

ship suddenly go off which then made it

Veer of course why was there no Tugboat

some people have been pointing out and

so on I was also struck by the fact that

a cargo ship hitting a part of a major

arterial bridge in a major American city

could bring the whole Bridge down what

did you make of

this you know obviously it's a tragedy

there will be a full investigation I I'm

certain of that yeah I I I hesitate to

always jump to sort of the a bunch of

conspiracies we were talking about that

are floating around online it appears

not to be a terror attack in fact it

appears that many of the people who are

on board actually called the landbased

authorities which is why the bridge

wasn't more filled with with car people

when the bridge collapsed but you I'm

I'm going to wait till all the facts

come in before making any sort of

statement on on what I think happened or

what can be done to correct it otherwise

I I feel we're jumping the gun probably

what are you concerned about

infrastructure generally in America I've

seen that again being debated today that

the there's a kind of sense that there's

a rotting infrastructure at the heart of

America first of all I think that that

tends to be a little bit overstated

because you can obviously find anecdotal

situations where there's a a bridge that

that falls down and that's terrible this

one didn't fall down of it's record

obviously at 165,000 ton ship that ran

into it um but beside that you know I I

think that the the biggest problem with

infrastructure tends to be state and

local based infrastructure not federal

based infrastructure in other words

spending a bunch of federal money on

infrastructure tends not to cure most of

these this one was under Federal aaces

by the way so we'll see if there were

inherent flaws in in the bridge and if

so obviously somebody is to blame and

presumably the Secretary of

Transportation will get the blame if

that's the case you've made a very

interesting documentary I watched it

last night about fenel America's silent

epidemic I was struck by the fact that

more people in America get killed by

fenel now than are killed by guns let's

take a quick look at a clip from the

film my only child is dead she died from

fentanyl poison my son died at 25 it was

fentanyl that killed my child fentel

overdose is the leading cause of death

for Americans 18 to 45 the sitting

president is supposed to put Americans