The Last Word With Lawrence O'Donnell 3/23/2024 | 🅽🅱🅲 BREAKING NEWS Today March 23, 2024

Soraia Cakes
22 Mar 202445:33

Summary

TLDRThe transcript discusses the financial troubles of former President Donald Trump as he faces a $464 million civil fraud judgment. Trump's inability to secure funds or assets to satisfy the judgment is highlighted, as well as his history of claiming wealth he does not possess. The transcript also touches on the upcoming criminal trial against Trump in New York and the potential for further financial liabilities from other lawsuits related to the January 6th Capitol attack. The use of campaign funds to pay for legal fees and the tax implications of such payments are questioned, with experts debating the legality and potential consequences.

Takeaways

  • 🏛️ Donald Trump faces a $464 million civil fraud judgment and has not provided a solution to prevent his assets from being attached by New York's attorney general, Leticia James.
  • 🔄 Trump's merger with Digital World Acquisition Corporation cannot change his financial capacity to satisfy the judgment.
  • 💰 Trump claims to have significant cash reserves but has been unable to post a bond with the court for the judgment.
  • 🤥 Contradicting his claims, Trump's social media posts suggest he does not have hundreds of millions of dollars.
  • 🏦 The court gave Trump 30 days to resolve the financial issue, but he has not been able to do so.
  • 📈 Trump's financial reality is closing in, and he continues to make false claims about his wealth and intentions for his political campaign.
  • 🚨 Trump's lawyers have admitted the difficulty in coming up with $500 million in cash, calling it a 'practical impossibility'.
  • 🏛️ The Manhattan courtroom is set to expose the foundational lie of Trump's image as a wealthy politician.
  • 💼 Trump's previous claims of self-funding his campaigns were false, as he loaned money to his own campaign and then paid himself back.
  • 🔎 The judge in the case has expanded the role of a former federal prosecutor to monitor any efforts to secure bonds and examine representations made by the Trump organization.

Q & A

  • What is the main financial issue that Donald Trump is facing?

    -Donald Trump is facing a $464 million civil fraud judgment and has not been able to come up with a solution to prevent New York's attorney general, Letitia James, from attaching his assets to guarantee the payment.

  • What is the significance of the merger between Trump's social media company and the Digital World Acquisition Corporation?

    -The merger is significant as it was hoped to help Trump's financial situation; however, it cannot change his financial capacities on the deadline for satisfying the judgment against him.

  • Why hasn't Donald Trump been able to post a bond with the court for the judgment?

    -Donald Trump has not been able to post a bond because he does not have $464 million, and he has not been able to get anyone to lend him the money needed to post the bond.

  • What did Donald Trump claim about his financial status in his social media posts?

    -Donald Trump claimed that the judgment against him was unconstitutional and unfair, and that he has almost $500 million in cash, which he intended to use in his campaign for president. However, these claims are considered lies.

  • How did Trump's supporters react to his claims of wealth?

    -Many Trump voters in Iowa believed that the wealth he claimed to have was a virtue and thought that he would be incorruptible because of it. Despite the exposure of his lies, some supporters continue to believe in his claimed wealth.

  • What is the role of the former Federal prosecutor, Barbara Jones, in this case?

    -Barbara Jones, a former Federal prosecutor, is monitoring any efforts to secure bonds and has the authority to examine any representations made by the Trump organization in connection with securing such bonds, ensuring transparency and preventing financial shenanigans.

  • What is the potential impact of the upcoming criminal trial on Donald Trump?

    -The upcoming criminal trial could be significant as it marks the first criminal prosecution of Donald Trump. It could lead to further legal and financial consequences if he is found guilty.

  • How might the Republican Party's financial support for Trump's legal fees affect his tax obligations?

    -If the Republican Party pays Trump's legal fees, it could potentially be considered taxable income for Trump. However, depending on the nature of the legal fees, they might be deductible, complicating the tax implications.

  • What are the implications of using campaign funds to pay for legal defense?

    -Using campaign funds to pay for legal defense could raise questions about the legitimacy of the expenditure under federal election law. The Federal Election Commission (FEC) has rules regarding the use of campaign funds, but enforcement has been weak.

  • What is the status of the civil suits related to the January 6th attack on the Capitol?

    -There are multiple civil suits filed against Donald Trump for his alleged role in inciting the January 6th attack on the Capitol. These cases could potentially result in significant financial judgments against him.

  • How is Donald Trump's financial situation affecting his presidential campaign?

    -Trump's financial situation is causing his campaign to spend significant amounts on legal fees, which is impacting his ability to fund campaign activities effectively. This is putting him at a disadvantage compared to the Biden Harris campaign.

Outlines

00:00

🏛️ Legal Troubles and Financial Woes for Trump

The paragraph discusses the legal and financial challenges facing Donald Trump. It highlights his inability to prevent New York's attorney general, Leticia James, from attaching his assets to guarantee the payment of a $464 million civil fraud judgment. It also mentions the merger between Trump's social media company and a higher-valued company, the Digital World Acquisition Corporation, which cannot change Trump's financial situation. The paragraph emphasizes Trump's lack of funds, his unsuccessful attempts to secure loans, and the court's 30-day deadline for him to resolve the issue. It also addresses Trump's repeated lies about his financial status on social media and his past broken promises regarding campaign financing.

05:02

💰 Trump's False Claims of Wealth and Corruption Beliefs

This paragraph delves into the false claims made by Donald Trump about his wealth and the belief held by his voters that he was incorruptible due to his supposed financial independence. It points out that Trump's claims of having hundreds of millions of dollars were lies and that he has never spent his own money on his political campaigns. The paragraph also compares Trump's financial situation with that of billionaires like Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, and Michael Bloomberg, who could easily cover a $500 million bill, and contrasts Trump's failures with their successes. It highlights the disillusionment of Trump's voters who believed in his wealth and the likelihood that they might still support him despite the truth.

10:03

📉 Trump's Inability to Anticipate Risk and Consequences

The paragraph focuses on Trump's inability to anticipate risks and the consequences of his actions, using his bankruptcy in Atlantic City as an example. It discusses his poor risk management skills in business and finance, and how these traits have led to his current financial and legal troubles. The paragraph also mentions an instance where Trump admitted to personally guaranteeing too much debt in the past and how he repeated the same mistake. It suggests that Trump's lack of maturity and strategic insight is leading to his downfall and that the process of revealing his true financial state will be gradual and uneventful.

15:06

🚨 Upcoming Legal Actions and Enforcement Against Trump

This paragraph discusses the impending legal actions against Donald Trump, including the collection of a $500 million judgment and the potential criminal prosecution in Manhattan. It mentions the role of Barbara Jones, a former federal prosecutor, in monitoring any efforts to secure bonds and examining representations made by the Trump organization. The paragraph also highlights the potential actions by New York's attorney general, Leticia James, such as sending restraining notices to Trump's banks and the possibility of seizing his personal property and real estate. It emphasizes the complexity of these legal proceedings and the potential for Trump's assets to be frozen or seized.

20:08

🔍 Analysis of Trump's Legal and Financial Situation

The paragraph provides an analysis of Trump's legal and financial situation, including the challenges he faces in the civil case brought by the Attorney General and the potential criminal prosecution. It discusses the thoroughness of the DA's office in laying out the case and the likelihood of a trial date being set soon. The paragraph also touches on Trump's mindset, suggesting that he only deals with immediate issues and is unlikely to start worrying about the criminal trial until just a few days before it begins. It highlights the potential difficulties Trump could face as a witness in his own defense due to his tendency to lie and not follow script.

25:10

🏦 Implications of Using Campaign Funds for Legal Fees

This paragraph explores the implications of using campaign funds to pay for legal fees and the potential tax consequences for Donald Trump. It discusses the Federal Election Commission's (FEC) rules and the IRS's stance on what constitutes taxable income. The paragraph suggests that while the FEC has largely stopped enforcing its rules, the IRS has its own definitions of income and could potentially view campaign funds used for personal legal fees as taxable income. It also raises the question of whether these funds could be deducted as business expenses, depending on the nature of the legal case.

Mindmap

Keywords

💡Civil Fraud Judgment

A legal decision in a civil case where the defendant is found liable for fraudulent actions, often resulting in a monetary penalty. In the context of the video, this refers to the $464 million judgment against Donald Trump, which is a significant financial burden and legal consequence he faces.

💡Asset Attachment

A legal process where a court seizes a debtor's assets to satisfy a financial judgment. In the video, this term is used to describe the impending action against Donald Trump's assets to secure the payment of the civil fraud judgment.

💡Digital World Acquisition Corporation

A company involved in a merger with Donald Trump's social media company. The merger is suggested to be of higher value but is not capable of altering Trump's financial capacities, especially in relation to the impending civil judgment deadline.

💡Financial Capacity

Refers to the ability of an individual or entity to meet their financial obligations. In the video, it is used to discuss Donald Trump's inability to cover the $464 million judgment against him.

💡Political Campaign

A series of activities and strategies employed by candidates to promote their candidacy and secure votes in an election. The video discusses Donald Trump's claims about using his own money for his political campaigns, which is disputed in the transcript.

💡Insolvency

The state of being unable to pay debts or meet financial obligations. In the context of the video, it refers to Donald Trump's financial situation as he faces a significant civil judgment without the means to satisfy it.

💡Social Media

Online platforms that allow users to create and share content or participate in social networking. In the video, it is mentioned in relation to Donald Trump's social media company, which is merging with a higher-valued company but is not sufficient to resolve his financial issues.

💡Bankruptcy

A legal process that helps individuals or businesses struggling with debt to eliminate or repay their debts under the protection of the federal bankruptcy court. The video implies that Donald Trump has faced bankruptcy in the past and may be approaching a similar situation.

💡Accountability

The obligation to accept responsibility for one's actions and decisions. The video emphasizes the theme of holding Donald Trump accountable for his actions, particularly in relation to the civil and criminal lawsuits he faces.

💡Campaign Finance

The financing of political campaigns, which includes the rules, practices, and strategies surrounding the funding of political candidates and parties. The video touches on the legality and implications of using campaign funds to pay for legal fees.

Highlights

Donald Trump faces a $464 million civil fraud judgment.

Trump's social media company is merging with a higher-valued company called Digital World Acquisition Corporation, but this cannot prevent the attachment of his assets.

Trump has not been able to satisfy the financial judgment against him by the deadline.

Despite claims of wealth, Trump does not have $464 million and has not been able to secure a loan to post a bond with the court.

Trump's past claims of having substantial wealth are contradicted by his current financial struggles.

Trump has a history of not using his own money for political campaigns, despite promising to do so.

Trump's lawyers admitted in court that it is practically impossible for Trump to come up with $500 million in cash.

The drama surrounding Trump's financial situation was foretold after his loss in the presidential election.

Trump's inability to anticipate risk and manage finances properly has led to his current predicament.

New York's attorney general, Leticia James, is preparing to attach Trump's assets to guarantee payment of the judgment.

Trump's claims of having almost $500 million in cash are contradicted by his legal and financial actions.

The real billionaire politicians like Mike Bloomberg did not brag about their wealth and could easily cover a sudden bill of $500 million.

Trump's false claims of wealth were believed by many of his supporters, who saw it as a virtue and a sign of being incorruptible.

The upcoming Monday is expected to reveal the truth about Trump's financial situation and expose his long-standing lies.

Trump's legal issues include multiple lawsuits over the January 6th attack on the Capitol, which could cost him hundreds of millions in judgments.

The Biden Harris campaign has a significant financial advantage over the Trump campaign, partly due to Trump's legal fees.

The use of campaign money to pay for Trump's legal fees could have tax implications, as it may be seen as taxable income.

The Republican Party and Trump's campaign are spending large amounts on legal fees, impacting his campaign financing.

The potential tax implications of using campaign funds for legal fees are complex and depend on the nature of the legal case.

The FEC has largely given up on enforcement due to political gridlock, allowing questionable campaign finance practices to go unchecked.

Transcripts

00:00

to a special Friday edition of The Last

00:02

Word focusing on defendant Trump Donald

00:07

Trump has not come up with a magical

00:10

solution to prevent New York's attorney

00:12

general Laticia James from beginning the

00:14

process of attaching his assets on

00:16

Monday in order to guarantee the payment

00:18

of a $464 million civil fraud judgment

00:22

against Donald Trump the merger

00:25

announced today between Donald Trump's

00:26

social media company with a much higher

00:29

valued company called the digital world

00:32

acquisition Corporation can do nothing

00:35

to change Donald Trump's Financial

00:37

capacities on Monday when Donald Trump

00:40

hits the deadline for satisfying the

00:42

Judgment against him if Donald Trump had

00:45

$464

00:47

million he could just post it with the

00:49

court as a guarantee that he could cover

00:52

the Judgment if he loses his appeal of

00:55

the case but Donald Trump doesn't have

00:58

that much money despite claiming to have

01:00

had much more than that for many many

01:03

years now and Donald Trump has not been

01:06

able to get anyone to lend him that

01:08

money so that he could post a bond with

01:11

the court for the Judgment which would

01:14

then protect his assets the court gave

01:16

Donald Trump 30 days to figure this out

01:20

and he hasn't been able to and so now as

01:24

Financial reality closes in on him

01:26

Donald Trump goes to bed lying and wakes

01:28

up lying last night at 1:54 a.m. he

01:32

posted one of his familiar lies on

01:34

social media saying that the Judgment

01:36

against him was unconstitutional and

01:38

unfair and that it was

01:40

designed by the judge to quote not allow

01:45

me to use any of the large amount of

01:48

cash I have built up over the years

01:50

through hard work Insight Instinct and

01:52

diligence on my political campaign for

01:55

president so the LIE there is that

01:59

Donald Trump does not have hundreds of

02:01

millions of dollars just doesn't have it

02:04

and the lie that he was going to spend

02:07

that money on his political campaign

02:10

that is a complete and total lie Donald

02:12

Trump has never spent one penny of his

02:16

own money on any of his political

02:19

campaigns in his first campaign for

02:21

president after promising that he would

02:24

Finance his entire campaign himself and

02:27

would never ask anyone to donate to his

02:29

campaign

02:30

Donald Trump loaned a total of $10.8

02:35

million to his campaign to get it

02:37

started and then he quickly began

02:41

begging for money every day of his life

02:44

online to his supporters and when his

02:47

supporters sent in enough

02:49

money Donald Trump paid himself back the

02:52

$10 million that he loaned to his

02:55

campaign so no Donald Trump was not

02:58

hoarding large amounts of cash hundreds

03:00

of millions of dollars so that he could

03:02

spend that money on his political

03:05

campaign as he said just before 2 am.

03:08

last night and then when he woke up this

03:12

morning if he slept at all at 7:14 a.m.

03:16

Donald Trump repeated that lie saying I

03:18

currently have almost $500 million in

03:21

cash a substantial amount of which I

03:23

intended to use in my campaign for

03:25

president no he did not he has never

03:29

intended to use one penny of his own

03:32

money in his

03:34

campaign and saying that he now has

03:37

almost $500 million in cash would mean

03:39

that his lawyers were lying when they

03:41

told the judge at the beginning of the

03:43

week that it was quote an impossibility

03:45

that was their word an impossibility for

03:48

Donald Trump to come up with $500

03:50

million in cash Trump's lawyers actually

03:53

called that quote a practical

03:55

impossibility the Trump lawyers

03:57

explained to the court just how

04:00

thoroughly Donald Trump failed in coming

04:02

up with the money the lawyers said quote

04:05

these diligent efforts have included

04:07

approaching about 30 shorty companies

04:09

through four separate Brokers a bond

04:11

requirement of this enormous magnitude

04:14

effectively requiring cash reserves

04:15

approaching $1

04:17

billion is unprecedented for a private

04:20

company so in a Manhattan courtroom on

04:24

Monday the foundational lie of Donald

04:27

Trump's image building as a poli

04:29

politician will be

04:33

exposed I don't need anybody's money

04:35

it's nice I don't need anybody's money

04:37

I'm using my own money I'm not using the

04:40

lobbyists I'm not using donors I don't

04:42

care I'm really rich that was an

04:46

enormous part of Donald Trump's initial

04:48

appeal when he began as a candidate he

04:50

mounted other appeals including direct

04:52

appeals to racist to expand his base of

04:55

support but many Trump voters in Iowa

04:58

believed that and said then in

05:01

interviews that the Trump wealth that

05:05

they believed he had was a virtue they

05:08

believed he would be Incorruptible

05:10

because he had too much money already to

05:13

be corrupted Donald Trump was lying

05:16

about that and his voters were wrong to

05:19

believe it but they have forgiven or

05:21

overlooked every Trump lie that has been

05:24

exposed and so at the end of the day on

05:26

Monday most of them might still be

05:28

willing to believe that Donald Trump is

05:30

as rich as he has always pretended to

05:34

be but Donald Trump knows better and

05:37

Donald Trump has proved how rich he

05:41

isn't to anyone who can

05:45

think the world's famous billionaires

05:47

have no problem coming up with $500

05:49

million Jeff Bezos has that in his

05:52

pocket Bill Gates has given away more

05:56

money than Donald Trump has ever had in

05:59

his life life Bill Gates has given away

06:01

billions of

06:03

dollars and the real billionaire New

06:06

York politician former mayor of New York

06:09

Mike Bloomberg who has also given away

06:11

billions of dollars never brags about

06:14

his wealth he could easily cover a

06:17

sudden bill of $500 million at any time

06:22

from his current Holdings of

06:26

106.2

06:28

billion Mike Bloomberg started with

06:32

nothing grew up in Suburban Boston moved

06:35

to New York City had to work to make

06:39

every single penny he has earned had to

06:43

do it on his

06:44

own Donald Trump hates billionaires like

06:47

Mike Bloomberg who came to the big city

06:50

where Donald Trump was born rich and

06:52

left Donald Trump far behind in the

06:55

building of important businesses and the

06:57

accumulation of wealth that staggers

07:00

Donald Trump's poisoned

07:03

imagination Donald Trump has never dared

07:07

to even pretend that he is as rich as

07:10

Mike Bloomberg never mind the younger

07:12

men like Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos who

07:15

have hit the stratospheric level of

07:17

wealth that Donald Trump sees with

07:21

jealousy about every day of his

07:25

life the drama Donald Trump is living

07:29

through now now the drama he's living

07:31

through tonight the drama that we are

07:33

all

07:34

watching was foretold when the

07:37

presidential election was called for Joe

07:39

Biden and Donald Trump officially

07:41

entered the history books as a loser on

07:44

that day Peter Marx the drama critic of

07:49

the Washington Post

07:52

wrote I imagine it as a chilling final

07:55

turn of the plot his world is coming to

07:58

an end

08:00

he will never have another good day

08:03

loser label will haunt him the law will

08:07

pursue him mental illness will hobble

08:11

him his

08:13

properties will bankrupt

08:16

him leading off our discussion tonight

08:19

is Tim O'Brien senior executive editor

08:21

for Bloomberg opinion and author of

08:23

trump Nation he is host of the Bloomberg

08:26

podcast crash course and an MSNBC

08:28

political analyst also Ander Weissman

08:30

former FBI general counsel and former

08:32

Chief of the Criminal Division in the

08:34

eastern district of New York he is the

08:37

coauthor of the New York Times

08:39

best-selling book the Trump indictments

08:42

uh Andrew Eisman as we close in on

08:45

Monday uh what will you be looking for

08:47

on

08:49

Monday the trial date you know I think

08:53

um looking at the

08:55

papers uh leaving a leaving aside one

08:58

caveat which is that one of Donald

09:01

Trump's lawyers is really a superb

09:05

ethical lawyer so you never want to sort

09:07

of count her out I'm I'm going to be

09:09

interested to seeing what Susan necklace

09:11

that defense lawyer has to say what

09:13

arguments she makes but having read the

09:16

papers on both sides this really looks

09:19

like a sort of minor kurur fuckle I

09:22

think the judge will be focused on is

09:24

there anything there that's going to

09:26

take more than the 30 days that he is

09:29

granted uh and whether the judge will

09:32

stick with essentially this trial

09:34

starting on ironically given your

09:37

opening and what you talked about April

09:40

15th um but I I sort of expect that we

09:43

will get a trial date that is if not

09:45

that date shortly thereafter so uh Tim

09:49

O'Brien in the Civil uh case now which

09:52

enters this new zone of the $454 billion

09:56

million doll collection period um we get

10:00

the feeling uh from the outside you've

10:02

dealt with Donald Trump up close he sued

10:04

you for telling the truth about how rich

10:06

he wasn't uh you won of course um you

10:10

get the feeling that he doesn't actually

10:13

feel he can't anticipate danger properly

10:17

it's why he went bankrupt in Atlantic

10:18

City the the ability to anticipate risk

10:22

is what saves businesses from disaster

10:24

it saves all areas of life from disaster

10:27

he he seems surprised that it has come

10:31

to this yeah you know business is

10:33

riskmanagement banking is riskmanagement

10:36

managing money is risk management I was

10:39

he and I were walking around Mara Lago

10:41

once in around 2005 talking about when

10:44

he almost went personally bankrupt in

10:46

the early 1990s and he said you know my

10:48

father always said to me never

10:50

personally guarantee any loans and and I

10:53

made a mistake I I personally guaranteed

10:56

too much money in the early 1990s I

10:58

didn't think it would catch up with me

11:00

and it did and I learned my lesson I

11:02

decided I'd never personally guarantee a

11:04

loan again after that I later found out

11:06

that he was lying to me in that very

11:08

moment I didn't know it but it turned

11:11

out he had personally guaranteed some of

11:13

the loans on a new building he was he

11:15

was developing in Chicago that only came

11:17

out a few years later um so he goes

11:20

through these searing moments where he

11:22

almost loses everything he can has and

11:25

he says I've learned these lessons and I

11:26

should have listened to my father and

11:28

then lo and behold he's doing the same

11:30

old thing and now here we are in you

11:32

know in

11:33

2024 and and he is about to get exposed

11:36

it's going to be a slow grind I don't

11:39

think there's going to be a lot of drama

11:40

on Monday but the process of opening the

11:43

kimono and and discovering that indeed

11:46

Donald Trump has no Financial clothing

11:48

at least not the kind of financial

11:49

clothing he's claimed he's had begins

11:52

and and it is a demonstration that he

11:54

doesn't learn his lessons he doesn't

11:57

anticipate problems properly and he

11:59

doesn't do it because he's a juvenile

12:00

delinquent he he lacks the maturity and

12:03

the wisdom and the Strategic Insight of

12:05

an adult uh and and Andrew Barbara Jones

12:09

role in this uh by that's been expanded

12:13

uh by judge andoran includes the

12:14

following it it says that uh she should

12:18

monitor in advance any efforts to secure

12:23

shy bonds so that would mean if anything

12:26

was going on this weekend you have to go

12:28

through her first or in the last few

12:30

days and it says uh she also has the

12:34

authority uh to examine any

12:37

representations made by the Trump

12:39

organization in connection with securing

12:43

such bonds so Andrew that seems to

12:45

indicate that whatever goes on here uh

12:48

cannot be done secretly e even some

12:52

magical multi-billionaire Angel who

12:54

wants to come in and drop that money uh

12:57

in Donald Trump's pocket it's seems

12:59

Barbara Jones would have to know about

13:01

that that's absolutely right and so

13:04

people understand Barbara Jones is a

13:06

former Federal prosecutor who for years

13:10

served as an article 3 federal judge in

13:13

the southern district of New York and

13:15

has been engaged in oversight of the

13:19

Trump organization judging Goran in the

13:22

Civil fraud case has expanded her role

13:25

to as exactly you said making sure that

13:29

that there are no Financial Shenanigans

13:31

going on um because the judge has found

13:34

that there was a history of Fraud and

13:37

financial Shenanigans and so he's trying

13:39

to make sure that does not repeat itself

13:42

so she will be overseeing whether for

13:44

instance um there's a purported sale of

13:47

an asset with you know which was not

13:50

really at market value um making sure

13:53

that there is no fraud going on to at

13:55

the last minute somehow manufacturer the

13:59

sum of money that Donald Trump needs I

14:02

would also just point out the stupidity

14:05

of Donald Trump saying today that he

14:08

actually has the money he has pending

14:11

before the court an application where

14:14

the application to the court is please

14:17

lower the bond amount because I cannot

14:20

pay it and at the same time he has said

14:23

I can pay it so just put yourself in the

14:25

shoes of the judges who have that

14:28

application

14:29

them do you think they would grant that

14:32

based on the defendant now saying oh I

14:35

can actually pay it I mean one way or

14:37

the other somebody is lying about that

14:41

and I've never seen a stupider litigant

14:44

in court on a very consistent basis uh

14:47

and Andrew let me take you back to uh

14:49

the criminal prosecution you're talking

14:50

about in Manhattan which is obviously

14:52

going to be the first criminal

14:53

prosecution of Donald Trump and it's

14:55

pretty clear that it is going to happen

14:57

uh if not in April ail certainly by May

15:00

and and with the latest pleadings we've

15:02

seen in this case uh that concern the

15:06

recently developed evidence that the

15:08

district attorney is saying look there

15:10

isn't much there it's largely

15:12

duplicative it doesn't require a lot of

15:14

time to uh to modify the defense in a

15:18

way that includes that new evidence so

15:21

uh we are going to know uh do you expect

15:25

that we will have a trial date set soon

15:27

or might might the trial date discussion

15:31

uh be be continued for a

15:34

bit it is possible but you know this is

15:38

a serious judge and he clearly was not

15:42

happy about this predicament I I would

15:45

be surprised if we don't hear something

15:49

on Monday if not Tuesday about the trial

15:52

date I I just think the papers that were

15:55

submitted by the DA's office are so

15:58

thorough um because they laid out they

16:00

gave so many affidavits as to what it

16:03

precisely happened but I just think it

16:05

Narrows the issues for the judge on

16:08

Monday that I'd be surprised that he

16:11

doesn't just you know hear from the

16:13

defense rule on it and then say this is

16:16

the trial date and give everyone advaned

16:18

warning that that's what I would

16:20

anticipate and Tim to Donald Trump who

16:24

apparently his his mind works like a

16:27

junkies he he only deals with the thing

16:29

in front of them at that moment right so

16:32

when we get past the whole issue of

16:35

what's happening with the collection of

16:36

the the half a billion dollars for any

16:40

other person the looming criminal trial

16:42

that is right behind it right behind it

16:45

would be really top of mine now it's it

16:47

seems like his brain won't even start to

16:49

worry about that until it's a couple of

16:51

days before going to going to trial and

16:54

where and in which he might have to

16:56

testify and and he is a lawyer's worst

16:59

Nightmare on the stand he is he he

17:01

bloviates he lies he doesn't stay on

17:04

script and undoubtedly he's not

17:07

listening to any advice he's getting

17:08

from them right now it is the legal

17:10

equivalent of what he does financially

17:12

in his business life which is to not

17:14

anticipate the freight trains that are

17:17

rolling towards him in an existential

17:19

way and and he just doesn't know what to

17:21

do Tim O'Brien's going to stick with us

17:23

to guide us through more of this Andrew

17:25

Weissman thank you very much for

17:26

starting off our discussion tonight and

17:28

a podcast note as Donald Trump's first

17:31

criminal the sheriff literally send the

17:34

sheriff to begin collecting from Donald

17:37

Trump that's

17:41

next New York attorney general Leticia

17:43

James first move against Donald Trump's

17:46

assets might be at the most liquid

17:49

assets beginning of course with cash the

17:52

near Times reports she could send

17:55

so-called restraining notices to Mr

17:57

Trump's Banks and broke B's firms

17:59

effectively freezing his accounts she

18:01

could do the same to anyone who owes Mr

18:04

Trump money essentially collecting rent

18:07

from tenants in his building here is

18:10

what former New York Assistant Attorney

18:11

General Adam Pollock said last night on

18:14

this program about what we can expect to

18:17

see next

18:19

week well we should see on Monday or we

18:21

should see after the expiration of the

18:23

deadline is a few devices used to

18:26

enforce the Judgment one is Bank

18:28

execution

18:29

the Attorney General can enlist the

18:31

sheriff or the Marshal kind of a wild

18:34

west meets New York City to go execute

18:37

on Bank on banks on assets held in

18:40

financial institutions like Banks or

18:41

others to what does execute mean so

18:45

execute nobody's dying right but the

18:48

assets get seized by the sheriff and

18:51

turned over to the Attorney General's

18:53

office to the state of New York right

18:55

away right away no judicial process

18:57

involved the statute says forth

19:01

with Politico reports that after that

19:04

after going after Trump's bank accounts

19:06

Attorney General James would likely then

19:09

move on to seizing either Trump's

19:11

personal property planes cars jewelry

19:13

artwork or real estate such as Trump

19:16

Tower 40 Wall Street or the Trump

19:19

National Durell Golf Resort joining us

19:22

now is Mark Zer a veteran New York

19:24

business litigator who has secured many

19:27

appeals bonds and Tim O'Brien is still

19:29

with us uh Mark the sheriff is coming

19:33

literally the sheriff is coming well he

19:35

doesn't wear a hat got a badge here or

19:39

you know we we picture in our Mind's Eye

19:42

that come Monday if there's no bond

19:43

posted you're going to have little

19:45

people running around the city you know

19:47

from the Sheriff's Office putting

19:48

padlocks on real estate that's not going

19:50

to happen we're going to have a lot of

19:52

paper shuffling and as your last night's

19:54

guest said there are processes there but

19:57

it's going to take a little longer I

19:59

believe that was outlined so the these

20:02

devices that were referenced can be used

20:05

simultaneously so let's go after the lwh

20:08

hanging fruit that's the bank accounts

20:10

right well here's what happens so you

20:12

deliver a piece of paper to the sheriff

20:15

it's called an execution the paper is

20:17

brought to the bank that's called a levy

20:19

that secures in priority uh the Attorney

20:22

General's position on those accounts the

20:25

restraining order that you've served

20:27

sometimes only preserves a for some

20:29

other creditor that comes first you have

20:31

to perfect you have to have that Levy

20:33

and then if the money is not turned over

20:36

which it normally is not until there is

20:38

what's called a turnover proceeding

20:40

brought which is an order from the court

20:43

that's sought to turnover the

20:44

proceedings to the attorney general so

20:46

it happens but it happens not in a in a

20:50

nanc at the same time she will be

20:52

turning retention to real estate but

20:54

that's tricky remember she can only get

20:56

her hands on and order the sale uh of

20:59

the interests that Mr Trump has now you

21:01

take 40 Wall Street for example which

21:03

we've we've seen talked about a lot uh

21:05

in the media he doesn't own the building

21:08

he has a ground lease so he since he

21:11

doesn't he he leases the ground the

21:14

building is on he owns he leases it to

21:17

yes the tenant is the owner of the

21:19

building so she can come in and uh for

21:23

clo on it so to speak the the sheriff

21:25

will levy on it and it will be put off

21:28

at auction at the best value who's going

21:29

to buy it and how much are they going to

21:31

pay for it uh or she might get an order

21:33

from the court called the charging order

21:35

where she can keep temporarily the the

21:38

fees that are coming in from the tenant

21:40

the building owner but he doesn't own it

21:43

in other situations the real estate he's

21:45

owned is owned by various corporations

21:48

and he has an interest in corporations

21:50

that have interest in those corporations

21:52

you can't get that real estate sold that

21:55

way all that can happen is the attorney

21:57

general buyers don't want a transaction

22:00

that complicated yes and they don't want

22:02

a minority or even an interest in

22:04

stocking some company that's you're that

22:06

may have liabilities they don't know

22:08

it's like when you in a business

22:09

transaction you may want to buy an asset

22:11

but you're not going to buy stock

22:13

because you don't know what liabilities

22:15

go with the assets so it's going to take

22:17

time uh Tim O'Brien I am shocked uh

22:20

Donald Trump doesn't own what he says he

22:22

owns I am shocked I thought he owned 40

22:24

Wall Street uh he's got this new deal

22:27

that he's uh happy about this merger uh

22:30

with his uh website his website is worth

22:33

nothing uh on the day of the merger uh

22:36

but there's no way that's going to

22:38

affect his financial picture on Monday

22:40

it absolutely won't he he's locked up

22:42

from selling the shares for six months

22:43

anyway the the value of the shares are

22:46

going to be variable over time so anyone

22:48

attaching that at an asset it's not

22:50

going to be something that's going to be

22:51

attractive to them because they can't

22:53

actually predict what the value of it

22:55

will be over time once it's publicly

22:57

traded and and and and Trump's own you

23:02

know the spack itself they've all been

23:04

full of speculative collapses the the

23:07

the operating numbers of this particular

23:09

company are not great it is writing on

23:11

the gas of Trump's name being attached

23:14

to it and as Mark just pointed out

23:16

Trump's name being attached to something

23:18

doesn't necessarily mean permanent value

23:20

or ownership there's a number of

23:21

buildings in New York the Trump

23:23

International Tower Columbus Circle GE

23:25

owns that not Donald Trump a German owns

23:28

the land under 40 Wall Street Trump

23:31

Tower most of it is owned by the condo

23:33

uh owners who own the apartments in that

23:36

in that Tower he controls some of the

23:37

commercial space in the basement and his

23:39

own condo but he doesn't own the whole

23:41

building and he Mark I I got to ask you

23:43

about we've been talking about Donald

23:45

Trump's inability to anticipate risk

23:48

anticipate danger anticipate where he's

23:50

going to hit the wall you've represented

23:52

clients in situations like this where

23:54

the Judgment has gone against them at

23:56

what point in the proceedings do you

23:59

tell your client if this judgment goes

24:02

against you here is what the proceedings

24:05

here's what the proceedings are going to

24:06

be here's what you're going to face uh I

24:08

I would suspect you tell them that early

24:11

in the process like somewhere in the

24:13

first week or so so they can think about

24:16

is there a settlement to there's a lot

24:17

of things to think about when you

24:19

understand what the risk is 100% it's

24:21

probably the first conversation after

24:22

you get your retainer okay so uh ABS

24:26

absolutely so if I could add to what my

24:28

colle so what would you have said in in

24:29

a case like this involving okay there's

24:31

there's business fraud here the attorney

24:33

general has what they have uh if the

24:36

judge finds against you what would you

24:38

have told your client early on in a case

24:41

like this well I'd tell them what would

24:43

happen I'd go through these steps if you

24:45

lose i' try to give an honest view of

24:47

the merits of the case as I understand

24:49

it and sometimes a client will ask well

24:51

if I lose you know can they get my

24:53

assets and can I do anything about it I

24:55

say that's not what I'm representing you

24:57

for and if he wants to do things that

25:00

involve planning to get his assets out

25:02

of the jurisdiction some clients do I

25:04

don't get involved with that I'm sure Mr

25:07

Trump has had extensive counseling about

25:09

his assets at this point and by the way

25:12

on Monday this merger where he's going

25:14

to get stock it's not going to do them

25:15

any good the court won't take it Court

25:18

only wants cash a bonding company is not

25:21

going to take it to issue a bond because

25:23

who's who it's speculative and if they

25:25

took it and two years from now they had

25:27

to pay out what would it be worth so and

25:30

it finally it's going to be attached by

25:33

Leticia James the money will go to her

25:35

if this money so it's it's nothing uh we

25:39

got to leave it there mark zauer and Tim

25:41

O'Brien thank you both very much for

25:42

this important decision discussion I'm

25:44

learning so much that I didn't know

25:46

coming up the worst of the Civil Trial

25:49

penalties that Donald Trump faces could

25:51

still be ahead of him as he faces

25:54

multiple lawsuits over the January 6th

25:56

attack on the capital that he incited

25:59

those cases could cost Donald Trump

26:01

several hundred million dollar in

26:04

judgments against him Congressman Eric

26:06

swell is one of the people suing Donald

26:09

Trump for what happened on January 6th

26:11

he'll join us

26:14

next other lawsuits on Donald Trump's

26:17

legal Horizon in Washington DC could

26:19

cost him several hundred million doar

26:23

last year a Washington DC jury returned

26:25

a judgment of 14 8 million against

26:31

Rudolph Giuliani for

26:33

defamation imagine how big a dollar

26:36

judgment a Washington DC jury might

26:39

return against Donald Trump for the

26:41

physical injuries suffered by police

26:45

officers on January 6th who are now

26:47

suing Donald Trump for that a Washington

26:49

DC jury decided that Rudolph Giuliani

26:52

must pay Georgia pole workers Ruby

26:54

Freeman and wander Shay Moss 100 $148

26:59

million for lying about them jurors

27:03

drawn from the same jury pool will

27:05

decide five different lawsuits filed

27:07

against Donald Trump for causing the

27:09

attack on the capital on January 6th

27:11

Congressman Eric swalwell filed one of

27:14

those lawsuits and we'll join us in a

27:16

moment another group of members of

27:18

Congress filed another lawsuit and

27:20

police officers have filed three lawsuit

27:24

against Donald Trump for injuries they

27:26

suffered on January 6 the trial juries

27:30

in those cases will be hearing testimony

27:34

like

27:35

this while we were suggested that they

27:38

was like something from a medieval botle

27:42

we fought hand to hand inch by inch to

27:46

prevent an invasion of the cap provide

27:48

violent mob intent on subverting our

27:51

democ Democratic process my fellow

27:55

officers and I were committed to not

27:57

letting any writers reach the

28:00

capital it was a prolonged and desperate

28:04

struggle the writers attemped to breach

28:06

the capital were shouting Trump send

28:10

us pick the right

28:13

side we won Trump I too was being

28:16

crushed by the riters I could feel my

28:20

myself losing oxygen and recall thinking

28:23

to myself this is how I'm going to die

28:26

defending this entrance

28:28

joining us now as Democratic Congressman

28:30

Eric swell California he served as an

28:32

impeachment manager in the second

28:34

impeachment trial of Donald Trump thank

28:36

you very much for joining us tonight

28:38

Carson swell uh the cases uh involving

28:42

the January 6th attack on the capital

28:43

all of those civil suits for which you

28:45

have won these might be the cases that

28:48

do finally bankrupt Donald

28:52

Trump there's so many victims uh in

28:55

these cases and and Lawrence as you

28:56

mentioned we have not know set out a

28:59

dollar amount you know we're principally

29:01

seeking accountability and ultimately

29:03

it's up to a jury as to you know what

29:04

that dollar amount is if Donald Trump is

29:07

found guilty for inciting and aiming the

29:10

mod but you know the the plaintiff class

29:12

is so large and as you said when you

29:15

compare it to the Giuliani verdict uh

29:17

the exposure is certainly pretty great

29:20

and and what I hope people uh at home uh

29:23

take comfort in is that for years

29:26

there's been this frustration that

29:27

Donald Trump

29:28

has escaped uh responsibility and

29:31

accountability and finally even as slow

29:34

as these cases are moving and they're

29:35

moving too slow uh accountability is

29:38

coming for Donald Trump and and perhaps

29:40

you know that's how we can redeem the

29:42

rule of law in our country yeah we're

29:44

going to see some accountability on

29:46

Monday and and that's why the the uh

29:48

judicial system has two components civil

29:51

and criminal sometimes criminal moves

29:53

faster than civil sometimes civil moves

29:56

faster than criminal uh here we've seen

29:59

uh this case uh brought by the Attorney

30:02

General was actually years in the making

30:04

uh but this year it seemed to move quite

30:07

quickly uh compared to what people were

30:09

seeing on the criminal

30:11

side and Lawrence you know frankly our

30:15

criminal and civil uh justice system was

30:18

not built for a legal terrorist like

30:21

Donald Trump he is a professional

30:24

litigant and he there may not be another

30:26

person in America who has had their name

30:29

attached to more lawsuits than Donald

30:31

Trump and and through 40 years of

30:33

experience in the legal system he's

30:35

learned how to grind it down and to

30:37

delay delay delay and obstruct uh and

30:41

he's been somewhat successful and and

30:43

frankly we have to look Beyond Trump as

30:45

to what do we do when someone like Trump

30:47

comes along in the future Adam Schiff I

30:49

think has the best proposal here he has

30:52

a bill called the protecting our

30:53

democracy act which creates kind of a

30:56

FasTrack uh when you have cases

30:59

involving an executive or a former

31:00

executive so that someone isn't able to

31:02

grind it out like this and then perhaps

31:04

win an election and then make their uh

31:07

liability go completely away so the

31:09

first thing that Donald Trump is already

31:11

in the process of bankrupting is his own

31:13

presidential campaign uh the Biden

31:15

Harris campaign raising much more money

31:17

uh than the Trump campaign Biden Harris

31:20

campaign spending it all on campaigning

31:22

uh the Trump campaign spending it on

31:24

Donald Trump's

31:26

lawyers yeah and and Lawrence again

31:29

these folks so many of them through

31:31

small contributions you know put their

31:34

faith in a man who's promised that he's

31:36

going to make their lives better and all

31:38

he's done is made his own uh life you

31:40

know better and and when Donald Trump

31:42

looks at the word America you know it

31:44

has seven letters in it and he only sees

31:46

one the letter I and and that's why we

31:48

have to make it clear this election in

31:50

November for Donald Trump is entirely

31:53

about escaping accountability is is to

31:57

the degree that Joe Biden can show that

31:59

for him the election is about seeing

32:02

everybody and governing for everybody I

32:04

think he can win on that and that's

32:05

going to become even more pronounced as

32:07

more and more cases uh come you know for

32:10

Donald Trump and we get closer to

32:11

November Congressman Eric swall well

32:13

thank you very much for joining us

32:14

tonight my pleasure I'm coming up if the

32:17

Republican Party pays Donald Trump's

32:19

legal fees could Donald Trump have to

32:22

pay taxes on that money as taxable

32:26

income we'll discuss that Tim O'Brien

32:28

and D Daniel shaviro professor of

32:30

Taxation at NYU Law School that's

32:36

next so at 10:17 p.m. tonight when

32:40

Donald Trump was no doubt alone in a

32:42

room in that home in Florida that he

32:45

cannot afford so he had to turn it into

32:47

a hotel in a restaurant to be able to

32:49

live there himself he was no doubt

32:52

staring at the TV at the exact moment

32:55

10:17 p.m. when Tim O'Brien on this

32:58

program who will rejoin our conversation

33:00

in a moment was talking about how

33:03

horrible a witness Donald Trump would be

33:06

if he tried to testify in his own

33:08

defense at his first criminal trial

33:11

which Andrew Weissman had just told us

33:13

will be beginning in April or possibly

33:17

at the latest in May and at that moment

33:20

at 10:17 p.m Donald Trump posted on his

33:24

social media Network abuse of power

33:29

exclamation

33:31

point that's Don that's how Donald

33:33

Trump's Friday night is going the Biden

33:36

Harris presidential campaign has a

33:38

massive financial advantage over the

33:40

Trump campaign for two reasons one the

33:43

Biden Harris campaign is setting records

33:45

for fundraising and two the Trump

33:47

campaign and the Republican Party are

33:49

spending massive amounts of money on to

33:52

pay for Donald Trump's lawyers who he

33:54

presumably cannot afford to pay himself

33:57

ignored by the media in that transaction

34:00

of paying for Donald Trump's lawyers are

34:02

the legalities involved in using

34:05

campaign money to pay for criminal

34:07

defense lawyers and the possible income

34:10

tax implications to Donald Trump who is

34:12

in effect receiving those millions of

34:15

dollars first as income to him which he

34:19

then disperses to his lawyers when they

34:22

give him their bills joining us now is

34:24

Daniel shaviro professor of Taxation at

34:27

New York University law school and Tim

34:28

O'Brien is back with us Professor Shiro

34:32

uh there are two governing entities that

34:35

have an interest in this one of them is

34:37

a weak entity the federal elections

34:39

commission which has basically abdicated

34:42

enforcement because it's stuck in a

34:44

standoff between the Democratic members

34:46

of it and the Republican members so they

34:48

don't really enforce anything anymore

34:50

but what is the Federal Election

34:52

Commission say in their rules that they

34:55

don't enforce about this money about

34:58

using campaign money to pay

35:01

lawyers well that's not I'm I'm more

35:04

knowledgeable about the tax and about

35:06

that but I've researched that a little

35:07

bit and they have a the so-called

35:08

irrespective rule so it has to be

35:11

litigation that would be occurring

35:13

irrespective of whether the person was

35:15

running for office now I think there's

35:18

just no doubt well I hate to opine on

35:20

federal election law there's no doubt

35:22

that they're paying for the Trump legal

35:26

case about the insurrection is the 14th

35:28

amendment that that was legit some but

35:32

something else like for example the uh

35:35

Gene Harris trial there it's just uh

35:38

totally different the E Carol trial yeah

35:40

I'm sorry Carol trial yeah and uh that

35:44

is highly like likely from what I know

35:47

about election law to be illegal on the

35:49

other hand as you point out it's not

35:50

going to be interpreted so maybe the tax

35:53

law though we're not sure that's going

35:54

to be enforced either here that might be

35:57

a a more uh Salient way to look at it

36:01

yeah so on the on the tax question uh

36:03

the IRS and tax law they don't care what

36:06

the f FEC says or any anyone else says

36:08

about what income is and what it isn't

36:10

they have their own definitions of

36:11

income how does the IRS see

36:14

this well uh I think the IRS the actual

36:17

IRS is probably lying low on this but if

36:19

you ask how should the IRS see it from

36:22

the point of view of enforcement uh it's

36:25

really not one question it's a bunch of

36:27

questions and the reason is that there

36:28

are a bunch of different expenditures

36:30

again there's really no chance that he

36:33

has taxable income I think on uh having

36:36

the Republican National Committee pay

36:38

for his uh defending his right to be on

36:40

the ballot uh without regard to the

36:43

merits of that claim of sueme Court

36:44

decision on the other hand when he has a

36:46

personal uh lawsuit because he sexually

36:50

assaulted and then def Fame someone

36:52

that's a little bit different so I think

36:54

the tax question kind of when they give

36:56

him money if they give him money to pay

36:58

for something that's deductible it

36:59

really doesn't matter because the income

37:01

is offset by the deduction on the other

37:04

hand if they gave him money to pay for

37:05

his groceries that would be income and

37:07

no deduction so we have to look at the

37:10

different uh criminal and civil trials

37:12

and kind of see where they are and it

37:15

seems to me to be pretty clear that when

37:17

you're defending yourself against

37:19

defamation uh and based on sexual

37:22

assault the tax standard for deducting

37:25

legal fees that you pay is called the

37:28

origin of the claim uh rule so there was

37:31

a uh there was a corporate executive who

37:34

had a divorce and his wife wanted to

37:36

take half of the stock and the divorce

37:39

and he said he needed to he would then

37:41

lose control of the company be fired a

37:43

CEO and he therefore needed to uh have

37:46

deduct fighting her in the divorce and

37:49

the Supreme Court said we don't care if

37:51

that's true or not it's the origin of

37:53

the claim this claim the legal fees came

37:56

from your defending a divorce that's a

37:57

personal matter so I think that just

37:59

clearly applies to the civil suit in New

38:02

York where he just uh faced $88 million

38:05

of liability now on the other hand the

38:08

uh the thing that you've been talking

38:10

about and that everyone's been thinking

38:11

about about the suit on Monday that is

38:14

uh his his paying for that is probably

38:16

deductible in respect to his business I

38:19

to give it an analogy if Tony Soprano is

38:22

uh indicted under the federal

38:24

racketeering law as I think Tony Soprano

38:26

can probably deduct

38:28

uh paying his legal fees so again here

38:31

having someone else pay them uh and not

38:33

including it because you can deduct what

38:35

it was done for makes it a wash now the

38:38

some of the other cases are are in

38:40

different uh uh settings for example you

38:43

were talking about the Washington civil

38:45

trials that are yet to come and of

38:47

course we know all about the other

38:48

criminal trials and on those I think he

38:51

has a pretty good case

38:53

for deducting it and but on the other

38:55

hand it's not it's not iron class there

38:57

actually counterarguments against saying

38:59

that he has to include it which would

39:01

probably take five or 10 minutes more to

39:03

explain uh but on the New York civil

39:07

defamation I just don't see any chance

39:09

it's not taxable incol uh Tim O'Brien uh

39:13

taxable income is not the first thing

39:15

Donald Trump thinks about when people

39:16

give him money no and and you know he's

39:19

bleeding small donor contributions and

39:23

that's been the lifeblood of his

39:25

campaign fundraising and it may that all

39:27

of these Shenanigans are starting to

39:29

register with all the little people

39:31

who've been giving Donald Trump money in

39:33

the idea that that he's actually

39:35

carrying their values and their needs

39:37

into the world instead of just lining

39:39

his own wallet and paying off his

39:40

lawyers with that money and I have to

39:42

wonder in the midst of all this where is

39:44

the FEC uh you know well they gave up

39:46

enforcement years ago it's this horrible

39:48

political Jam that they're in because

39:50

they're supposed to have an equal number

39:51

of Democrats appointed an equal number

39:53

of Republicans appointed in the past

39:55

they all had the same attitude ude

39:57

toward uh running clean campaigns and

40:01

making sure the laws are observed the

40:02

the Republicans have blocked every

40:04

single enforcement the they've tried to

40:06

do there at the FEC but couldn't someone

40:08

bring a complaint to them nonetheless

40:10

that the FEC would be compelled take no

40:12

no they they have people do file

40:13

complaints and the Republicans blocked

40:15

the procedure within the FEC which they

40:18

control uh you know either side can

40:19

control that procedure we could go on

40:21

and on another blow for about the FBC

40:24

and Donald Trump's been lucky to be

40:25

there during that era uh Professor Shiro

40:27

and Tim O'Brien thank you both very much

40:29

for joining this discussion we'll be

40:31

right

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