'REAL PROBLEM': Ex-federal prosecutor warns 'we're deep in a lawfare system'

MARIA: WELCOME BACK.

FORMER PRESIDENT TRUMP'S' NEW

YORK TRIAL RESUMES TODAY AT

10:00 A.M. EASTERN.

JUDGE MERCHAN WILL GIVE

INSTRUCTIONS TO THE JURY WHICH

SHOULD TAKE ABOUT AN A HOUR.

THEY'LL BEGIN DELIBERATING UNTIL

4:30 P.M. TODAY AND WILL

CONTINUE TOMORROW.

DELIBERATIONS COULD LAST FROM A

FEW HOURS TO A FEW WEEKS.

TRUMP'S ATTORNEY SPENDING THE

IMAGE OUT OF CLOSING

ARRESTINGMENTS ATTACKING COHEN'S

CREDIBILITY, CALLING HIM THE

GLOAT, THE GREATEST LIAR OF ALL

TIME.

THE PROSECUTION DEFENDED THE

IMPORTANCE OF DANIELS' TESTIMONY

SAYING IT ILLUSTRATED THE MOTIVE

FOR THE CRIME.

JOINING ME IS ANDREW CHERKASKY,

A FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR,

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR BEING HERE

THIS MORNING.

>> THANK YOU.

MARIA: TELL US WHAT YOU GLEANED

FROM ALL A OF THIS, WHAT'S MOST

IMPORTANT, WHAT SHOULD WE BE

AWARE OF?

>> I THINK TODD BLANCHE GAVE THE

JURY EVERYTHING THEY NEED IN

ORDER TO REACH AN ACQUITTAL,

REACH A VERDICT OF NOT GUILTY IN

THE CASE AND I THINK THAT'S VERY

JUSTIFIED UNDER THE

CIRCUMSTANCES.

THE PROSECUTION FAILED ENTIRELY

TO PROVE SOME OF THE BASIC

ELEMENTS OF THE CRIME HERE,

SPECIFICALLY THAT THE ENTRY INTO

THE BUSINESS RECORDS OF LEGAL

EXPENSES WAS INCORRECT.

NOT EVEN A QUESTION OF WHETHER

DONALD TRUMP HAD A CRIMINAL

INTENT IN MIND BUT WHETHER THAT

SHOULD HAVE BEEN ANYTHING ELSE

AND BEING ON FOX BUSINESS I

THINK THAT MOST BUSINESS PEOPLE

KNOW YOU BOOK YOUR EXPENSES.

WHY WOULDN'T YOU BOOK AN EXPENSE

TO A LAWYER AS A LEGAL EXPENSE.

IF THEY CAN'T GET OVER THAT

HURDLE THEY DON'T HAVE A

CONVICTION SO I THINK THEY'RE

SET UP FOR AN YOU AQUITAL BUT

IT'S -- AN YOU ACQUITTAL.

BUT IT'S NEW YORK.

IT'S A BLUE JURY.

THEY COULD HAVE HOLDOUTS.

THIS COULD GO ANY DIRECTION.

I THINK THE MOST INTERESTING

THING THAT COULD HAPPEN IS A

HUNG JURY AND WHAT WOULD HAPPEN

AFTER THAT.

MARIA: YEAH, A HUNG JURY THOSE

BE A VICTORY FOR TRUMP EVEN

THOUGH THEY'LL HAVE TO DO A

MISTRIAL, RIGHT?

YOU.

>> YOU THINK OF IT AS BEING A

VICTORY FOR TRUMP BUT THEN THE

DA'S OFFICE WOULD HAVE THE

OPTION OF RETRYING HIM AND THEY

LIKELY WOULD.

ALVIN BRAGG ISN'T LIKELY TO PULL

BACK.

MARIA: NO, HE'S NOT.

>> AT THIS POINT.

SO THEN IF IT'S A RETRIAL, THEY

CAN GO BACK TO TRIAL ALMOST

IMMEDIATELY AND I THINK JUDGE

MERCHAN COULD ORDER THIS BACK TO

TRIAL AHEAD OF THE NOVEMBER

ELECTION AND SO WE COULD BE

GOING THROUGH THIS ALL OVER

AGAIN BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE TO

DO NEW DISCOVERY, NEW MOTIONS,

ANYTHING LIKE THAT.

THEY COULD BE BACK AT TRIAL

DOING THIS ALL OVER BEFORE THE

ELECTION IF IT'S A HUNG JURY SO

I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE BEST

OUTCOME FOR.

MARIA: SO IT'S EITHER A HUNG

JURY OR OF UNANIMOUS GUILTY OR

NOT GUILTY.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

MARIA: WHAT DO YOU THINK, MIKE.

>> YOU WORKED AT THE JUSTICE

DEPARTMENT.

HAVE YOU SEEN ANYBODY THAT'S

LIKE THE NUMBER TWO, THREE OR

FOUR LEAVE THAT POLITICAL

APPOINTEE POST TO BECOME A LIVE

PROSECUTOR IN THE CITY?

>> THIS LOOKS LIKE A PLANT.

YOU SEE FROM TIME TO TIME

CERTAIN PEOPLE COME IN AND OUT

OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT AND

THEY GO TO KIND OF A SPECIALIZED

JOB OR MORE SPECIALIZED JOB

WITHIN THE GOVERNMENT SOMEWHERE

YOU USUALLY GO FROM THE STATE.

BUT THE IDEA THAT CO-ANGELO

ISN'T PART OF THE GREATER BIDEN

CONSPIRACY TO TAKE DOWN DONALD

TRUMP, THAT'S PREPOSTEROUS.

HE'S AT THE CENTER OF IT.

FOR JUDGE MERCHAN TO HAVE GAGGED

DONALD TRUMP ON COANGELO

SPECIFICALLY, HE'S A POLITICAL

PLAYER AT THIS POINT.

I FIND THAT TO BE OUTRAY JUST.

OUTRAGEOUS.MARIA: YOU SAID THEL

INSTRUCTIONS THE JUDGE GIVES TO

THE JURY IS THE MOST IMPORTANT

THING THAT HAPPENS.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

THE JUDGE IS TELLING THE JURY

HOW TO APPLY THE FACTS TO THE

LAW, WHAT THE BIG DECISIONS ARE.

SO WHEN YOU TAKE THE LAW IN THIS

CASE AND YOU LOOK AT SOME OF THE

CONFUSION THAT'S BEEN THERE AND

WE'VE ALL BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT

IT SINCE THE BEGINNING,

COMMENTATORS ON THE LEFT AND

RIGHT.

WE DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT THE

CRIME IS, NOT ONLY DO WE NOT

UNDERSTAND KIND OF THE BASIC

IDEA OF WHY THEY THINK THE

MISDEMEANOR IS THERE BUT THEY

HAVE TO HAVE AN ELEVATING SECOND

OFFENSE AND THE SECOND OFFENSE

HAS BEEN KEPT A SECRET THE WHOLE

TIME.

THE DEFENSE DEMANDED FURTHER

CLARITY ON THAT.

THEY REFUSED TO GIVE IT.

THE JUDGE HASN'T REQUIRED IT.

AS THEY GET INTO THE

INSTRUCTIONS THE JUDGE IS

INSTRUCTED THE MEMBERS THEY

DON'T HAVE TO HAVE A UNANIMOUS

VERDICT AS TO THEIR THEORY AS TO

THE SECONDARY OFFENSE AND SO WE

REALLY HAVE SOME OUTRAGEOUS KIND

OF LEGAL GYMNASTICS GOING ON,

ALL OF WHICH WOULD BE RIPE FOR

APPEAL AND I THINK VERY STRONG

APPEALS BUT IF HE'S CONVICTED I

DON'T SEE ANY WAY GETS TO THE

APPELLATE COURT BEFORE THE

ELECTION SO THERE WOULD BE A

CONVICTION HANGING OVER HIM,

MAYBE OVERTURNED AFTER HE

BECOMES THE NEXT PRESIDENT OR

LOSES THE ELECTION, POTENTIALLY

BECAUSE OF THIS VERDICT.

THE DEGREES OF UNFAIRNESS AND

INJUSTICE THAT ARE GOING ON I

THINK ARE REALLY TROUBLING AND

THOSE JURY INSTRUCTIONS ARE

CENTER TO SOME OF THE PROBLEMS

THAT WE HAVE HERE.

MARIA: THAT IS JUST

EXTRAORDINARY HE THAT THIS IS

TAKING PLACE RIGHT NOW.

HOW DO YOU SEE IT?

>> I HAVE TO AGREE WITH ANDREW.

I'M TERRIFIED ABOUT THE JURY

INSTRUCTIONS.

WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CRUX OF

THIS, JUDGE MERCHAN REFUSES TO

LET THE JURY KNOW THAT HUSH

MONEY PAYMENTS ARE NOT ILLEGAL

THAT IS IMPORTANT.

WHAT IS HUSH MONEY.

THERE'S SETTLEMENT AGREEMENTS.

REPORTERS DO IT ALL THE TIME.

THEY WORKED ON THE CLINTON

CAMPAIGN.

THEY CATCHED AND KILLED MANY,

MANY STORIES AND THERE'S NOTHING

WRONG WITH THAT.

THERE'S NOTHING ILLEGAL WITH

THESE TYPE OF SETTLEMENT

AGREEMENTS BUT THE JUDGE IS

REFUSING TO ALLOW THAT

INSTRUCTION TO A JURY SO THERE'S

SO MUCH KAYE KAYE GLOSS THAT --

CHAOS IN THAT JURY ROOM.

I'M HOPING THAT DELIBERATIONS

ONLY TAKE A COUPLE HOURS.

THERE'S TWO LAWYERS.

I HAVE FULL FAITH THAT THEY CAN

WEAVE THROUGH SOME OF THE

INSTRUCTIONS AND SAY HERE'S THE

CRUX, BUSINESS RECORDS.

MARIA: THERE WERE PHI WORKS

THIS WEEK.

JUDGE MERCHAN REPRIMANDED

TRUMP'S LAWYER DURING CLOSING

ARGUMENTS YESTERDAY.

BLANCHE TOLD THE JURY THEY CAN'T

SEND SOMEONE TO PRISON BASED ON

THE WORDS OF MICHAEL COHEN.

MERCHAN CALLING THE STATEMENT

OUT RAY JUST, HIGHLY

INAPPROPRIATE BECAUSE JURORS ARE

NOT ALLOWED TO TAKE PUNISHMENT

INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN

DELIBERATING.

ELISE STEFANIK FILED A

MISCONDUCT COMPLAINT AGAINST

JUDGE MERCHAN INSISTING HIS

SELECTION TO HANDLE TRUMP'S CASE

IS NOT RANDOM, CALLING ON THE

INSPECTOR GENERAL TO

INVESTIGATE.

ANDREW, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS

ON THIS?

THIS IS THE SAME JUDGE THAT

OVERSAW STEVE BANNON AND OTHER

AREAS OF TRUMP'S WORLD.

I MEAN, WASN'T RANDOM THAT THEY

SELECTED HIM, WAS IT?

>> NO.

I THINK WE'VE GOT DEEP ISSUES IN

THE NEW YORK JUDICIAL PROCESS OF

GETTING JUDGES SELECTED.

HAS TO BE NEUTRAL AND

INDEPENDENT, THOSE BE RANDOM --

HAS TO BE RANDOM.

DOESN'T APPEAR TO BE THAT WAY.

HE TONES BE PUT ON TRUMP CASES

ONE AFTER ANOTHER.

SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S SOME

SHUFFLING AND POKER PLAYING

GOING ON WITHIN THE JUDICIARY TO

MAKE THAT HAPPEN SO I THINK THAT

INVESTIGATION IS VERY IMPORTANT

AND THEN YESTERDAY WHEN WE SAW

JUDGE MERCHAN KIND OF GO AFTER

TODD BLANCHE, CALLING HIS

ARGUMENT OUTRAGEOUS, THAT'S WAY

OVER THE TOP.

THAT'S AN EASY MISTAKE TO MAKE

AS A DEFENSE COUNSEL.

YOU CAN SAY BE VERY CAREFUL

BEFORE YOU TAKE AWAY HIS FREEDOM

AND LIBERTY AND SO TO SAY JAIL,

TO KIND OF WORK THAT IN THERE, I

THINK IT'S A VERY GENERAL

GENERIC REFERRING TO THE IDEA OF

CONDEMNATION BY A JURY.

DON'T CONDEMN THIS MAN.

IT HAS GREAT CONSEQUENCE.

TO SAY THAT MENTIONING JAIL

VERSUS LIBERTY, JUSTICE,

FREEDOM, I THINK IT'S

OVER-THE-THE TOP TO CALL IT

OUTRAGEOUS AND LAMBAST THE WAY

HE DID.

MARIA: IT DOES MEAN JAIL.

>> NOT NECESSARILY.

HE COULD -- DONALD TRUMP COULD

AVOID JAIL WITH A CONVICTION

HERE.

AND SO I DO WORRY THAT BY

MENTIONING THAT, IT ALMOST

INVITES MERCHAN TO SEND HIM TO

JAIL BECAUSE HIS ATTORNEY SAID

SO, YOUR ATTORNEY SAID YOU WOULD

GO TO JAIL IF THE YOU WERE

CONVICTED AND THERE'S MIXED

OPINIONS I THINK IN THE LEGAL

COMMUNITY AS TO WHETHER THIS

CRIME UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES

CALLS FOR JAIL TIME AND I THINK

MERCHAN HAS A VERY HEAVY TASK,

IF THERE'S A CONVICTION, TO

DECIDE IF THERE'S ANY JAIL TIME,

A DAY, WEEK, MONTH, WHATEVER IS

PUT IN FRONT OF HIM.

THIS DOES NOT CALL FOR JAIL TIME

IN MOST CIRCUMSTANCES.

MARIA: THAT WOULD BE A NEW LOW

FOR THIS COUNTRY.

>> AFTER THE CIVIL TRIALS AND

NOW THIS, WHY WOULD ANYONE HAVE

ANY FAITH IN THE NEW YORK STATE

JUDICIAL SYSTEM?

>> CAN YOU IMAGINE DOING

BUSINESS IN NEW YORK WITH ANY

TYPE OF POLITICAL MAGNIFYING

GLASS ON YOU?

I MEAN, IT'S AT A POINT AT A

THIS TIME WHERE EVERYTHING

THAT'S BEEN DONE TO DONALD TRUMP

I THINK SCREAMS TO BUSINESS

FOLKS IN NEW YORK THAT THIS IS A

VERY PRECARIOUS PLACE TO BE AND

THE POLITICS THAT YOU BRING TO

THE TABLE WILL HAVE A DIRECT

IMPACT ON HOW THE STATE

INVESTIGATES YOU AND THE

POTENTIAL THEY TRY TO PUT YOU IN

JAIL WHERE THEY DON'T DO THAT TO

COMPATRIOTS WHO ARE POLITICALLY

FAVORABLE.

MARIA: DOES THE JURY HEAR THIS?

IS THE JURY GOING TO SAY LISTEN,

IF I REALLY DISCUSS HOW I

ACTUALLY FEEL, THIS IS UNFAIR,

HE SHOULD BE ACQUITTED, THEY'LL

COME AFTER ME?

>> I HAVE FAITH IN THE JURY

SYSTEM.

I MIGHT BE THE FOOL.

I'VE BEEN DOING LEGAL WORK FOR A

COUPLE DECADES NOW AND I'VE HAD

HUNDREDS OF JURIES AND MOST

OFTEN COME BACK IN A JUST WAY SO

I HAVE TO HAVE FAITH IN THEM IN

ORDER TO CONTINUE MY JOB AND

STAY SANE BUT THERE ARE ISSUES

AND THERE ARE CONCERNS HERE IN

NEW YORK.

THERE'S TWO ATTORNEYS ON THERE.

THERE'S ALSO OTHER VERY

INTELLIGENT FOLKS.

THERE'S VERY PRACTICAL FOLKS.

THEY PROMISED TO BE FAIR.

MARIA: BUT THE WHITE HOUSE

ALREADY SAID WE'RE PLANNING

ATTACKS ON TRUMP IF GETS

ACQUITTED.

TO SAY THAT BEFORE THE JURY IS

ABOUT TO DELIBERATE, THAT'S

OUTRAGEOUS.

YOU WANT TO HAVING OUTRAGEOUS,

JUDGE MERCHAN, THAT'S

OUTRAGEOUS, FOR THE WHITE HOUSE

TO SAY WE'RE PLANNING ATTACKS ON

TRUMP SHOULD HE BE ACQUITTED.

THE JURY HEARS THAT, SAYS I

DON'T WANT TO GET ATTACKED.

>> EVERYTHING I HEARD ON THE

PANEL SIGNIFIES THIS IS A

POLITICAL PROCESS, IT'S WHAT I

HEAR FROM REGULAR PEOPLE

WATCHING IT, WHAT I HEAR FROM

MEMBERS OF CONGRESS, THAT'S WHY

YOU SEE CHAIRWOMAN STEFAN M NICK

TRYING TO WEIGH IN, MOVE THE

OVERSIGHT FORWARD.

>> THERE'S SO MANY THINGS TO

UNPACK WITH THE WAY THAT THE

COUNTRY REACTS AND RESPONDS THE

VERDICT, WHICHEVER WAY THAT

GOES.

IF IT'S AN YOU ACQUITTAL, I

THINK PEOPLE HAVE TO AT THAT

POINT ADMIT THERE'S A TRUE

INJUSTICE.

NOW YOU'VE GOT THE BIDEN

ADMINISTRATION NOT READY TO DO

THAT, I'M SURE.

I'M SURE THEY'LL HAVE THEIR OWN

ATTACK.

WELL, HE WAS PUT ON TRIAL AND

THAT MEANS HE'S AT LEAST

GUILTY,TRYING TO DISTORT THAT.

IF HE'S CONVICT, THEY'LL TRY TO

RUN AROUND THAT OVER AND A OVER

AGAIN.

AND FINALLY THE HUNG JURY

POTENTIAL AND A MISTRIAL, DO WE

GO BACK THERE, AND HOW DO THEY

TAKE ALL OF THE OTHER TRIALS

THAT ARE GOING ON AND TRY TO

CAPITALIZE ON THOSE, IT'S LAW

FARE.

I THINK THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE.

WE'RE DEEP IN A LAW FARE SYSTEM

AND IT'S A REAL OOH PROBLEM.

MARIA: YEAH, IT SURE IS.

ANDREW, THANK YOU SO MUCH