Basketball Evolution | LeBron James and JJ Redick | Mind the Game

I mean I don't know if it was

intentional I had so many people like

whne people text me oh yeah me too DM me

be like couldn't quite make out I knew I

knew you were drinking the one rouso

what was the other one or yeah someone

called me last uh episode one say said

he's not he's not going to waste a drop

of that wine but I pour juice up when I

oh so I didn't know you want another

glass I pour juice up and we were

talking in mid conversation I wiped the

bottle and like lick my finger it was oh

yeah he's not wasting a drop with

that

welcome back to mind the game with

LeBron James and me JJ reic this is

episode three we're going to be talking

a little bit about the evolution of

spacing in the NBA during both LeBron's

career and my career we're also going to

be talking about the evolution of

certain positions certain Cuts it's

going to be a great episode um no we

have not upgraded to animation no we

don't have a whiteboard yet the

Whiteboard was sent to Los Angeles I'm

recording this in Brooklyn so you're

stuck with the paper guys a few key

Concepts I just want to review before we

get to our conversation just as a review

from episode one floppy is a catch and

shoot play

uh it's very

simple on either side of the lane

there's two bigs the point guard has the

ball up top and the two Wing players are

underneath the basket the shooter can

come out either side make a play in the

context of this

conversation it's funny because LeBron

James never runs floppy so in this

episode we talk about Corner splits

think the Sacramento Kings with Chris

Weber and Vlad devach as the passers

Mike Biby Pia Bobby Jackson Doug

Christie those guys as the shooters and

Cutters more recent example uh was Rick

Adelman when he was in Minnesota in the

mid

2010s Kevin Love Kevin Martin Ricky

Rubio that's what these guys ran a lot

of corner splits is very simple by the

way by the way I

apologize uh a number of people have

pointed out that the defensive players

are supposed to be the x's and the

offensive players are supposed to be the

Yo's here's the thing I've only had one

coaching job in my life that is coaching

8 n and 10 year olds now when you coach

eight nine and 10 year olds it can be

very confusing to have X's and O's on

the court so I decided to draw X's

because they all thought the O looked

like a basketball and that confused them

so for me I draw my offensive players as

X's all right corner split there is a

wing player in a corner the ball handler

brings it up aside in this case we're

going to bring it up the left side and

the big I.E Vlad devot Kevin Love Chris

Weber is somewhere in the vicinity of

the elbow or high post area uh you can

occupy the weak side in a number of ways

have a guy in the corner have a guy high

you can have a guy in the corner or have

a guy in the dunker spot because I don't

love the dunker spot we'll put the other

guy in the high quadron point guard

brings it up he would hit the big Chris

Weber VL debot at the high post he then

goes into split action as a reminder

split action is just when two offensive

players go to screen for each other off

the ball and again they can cut they can

curl they can set a back screen or a rip

screen a rip screen is the same thing as

a back screen often times again the

meaning is in the word if I was to say

I'm going to go set a back screen for

you where would I screen your defense

I would screen his back that's the same

thing as a rip screen so in this case

this is Paia this is Mike Biby uh Mike

BBY can go set a down screen for Paia

Paia has a number of options here he can

curl to the basket he can back cut he

can chase the basketball he can come for

a dribble handoff uh in this case let's

say Mike Biby sets a great screen page

it just comes off FL hits him he hits a

wide open jump that's Corner splits all

right spread pick and

roll all that means is there's nobody in

the dunker spot there's nobody in the

paint all five players are spread across

the perimeter um depending on where the

pick and roll is located let's say it is

up top the ball handler here you have a

guy in each Corner um this is a

right-handed player so we want to go to

the single side so we'll put this this

guy in the high quadrant and then the

screener would then come set a pick and

roll again everyone is spread out nobody

is inside the paint the opposite of this

of course uh would be let's say this guy

will eliminate him and put him in the

dunker spot that is no longer a spread

pick and roll that's just a pick and

roll five out delay uh again the meaning

is in the word five out five outside of

the three-point line five out this is I

think one of the biggest revolutions EV

ution in today's

NBA no longer see two people run to

either block as you did for a long time

in the NBA you still see it some in

college you certainly see it some in

high school five out is how most NBA

teams play it's not necessarily a play

as it is a set in a concept so for the

purposes of this let's say it's off a

miss everybody sort of run you get two

guys in the corner one guy on the wing

ball handler bringing it up and then the

trail guy who got the rebound or who

took it out is running down the center

of the floor okay within that you can

get to a number of options you can play

a step up pick and roll here you can run

a stagger screen away stagger screen

again it's in the word two players a

stagger one screen two screen uh you can

run away action away action again

meaning is in the word you go away from

the basketball you screen away like this

boom that's DeAndre Jordan screening for

me that's Brook Lopez screening for Kyle

corver that's just a way action a lot of

teams will hit the fivan though at the

top and then they will get into split

action delay is just another name for

five out again because I've got a white

piece of paper not a whiteboard I can't

go over every single option out of this

but this is the essential idea of five

out or delay okay the short role this is

one of the most important Concepts in

today's NBA uh it's a big part of this

conversation as well uh let's just go

back to that spread pick and roll okay

so within that spread pick and roll the

fan is going to set a screen for the

ball handler to get to his right hand

okay okay and let's say the help side is

here

here strong

side strong side all side is there the

big is up in the pick and roll and the

guards and the and the defender of the

point guard is right there as this guy

comes

off they put two on the ball the short

roll

is essentially the area between call it

the restricted area and the three-point

line so at any point in time if you get

the ball to the fivan in this area that

forces a reaction from the defense now

this guy almost always will pull over as

the low man he's the lowest guy on the

floor he's the low man that's his

responsibility to protect the rim this

guy as we discuss sometimes will drop

here and he will essentially have

responsibility on these two guys once

the ball is in this area this is the

short roll area anywhere again between

restricted and the three-point line the

short roll area is where today's big man

makes plays a lot of guys are not

shooting necessarily right here they're

not short rolling to shoot this shot

they are short rolling to either shoot a

floater haa yic to May

this cut this P pass to this cutter or

to spray out to this man for a three

that's the short Roll Another concept we

talk about is the slot cut just to be

clear here the slot is another word for

the high quadrant it's another word for

the wing uh in a spread pick and roll

the slot is considered the guy on the

wing you have the corner the corner and

the two people in pick and roll so this

would be the slot right here the slot

cut is simply a timed cut let's say the

ball handler turns the corner the big

rolls the defense reacts it's a Time cut

out of this slot to get the ball in this

area paint Rim whatever go dunk the

basketball now you can also let's say

you're posting the ball

here you can have a slot cut out of the

post a slot cut is just a cut from the

slot

area thank you guys again for watching

for listen listening LeBron and I have

really enjoyed recording these episodes

talking basketball and I hope you guys

have learned something and enjoyed it as

well appreciate you this is episode

three of mind the game

Evolution Cheers Cheers very much enjoy

the first episode absolutely I'm going

to ask you a question and I we can edit

this out if need be this is just I I

just want to get the conversation

started this way that's great because we

were just talking about young

guys and I felt towards the end of my

career once I had figured the league out

and I again figured the league out

meaning like I had a job you know what I

mean not like I'm an Allstar um but once

I figured the league out I felt like I

could tell within two or three days of

being around a young guy whether he was

going to be all right in the league yeah

do you have that too do you sense that

yeah absolutely what are the markers for

you where you say this guy's this guy's

going to be

good um coaches and Veterans being able

to get on

them and there's no snickering there's

no back talk there's

no n all of that it's just almost they

almost look

like

just keep on coming with it because I

want to see if how much I can I want to

see how much just keep on keep on

because I'm absorbing

everything that's when you know like oh

he's he's going to be in this league for

for a long

time one of the things that I always

noticed was

um and I wasn't perfect perfect at this

when I was like a rookie

especially there there's an element of

fear me meaning once we step on the

court I'm not scared but there's an

element of fear like I I need to be in

the training room on time yeah yeah I

need to do all the lifts yeah that my

strength coach is telling me to do if my

PD guy Player Development guy my PD guys

telling me to be on the court at 10

o'clock for an 11 o'clock practice that

guy's there at 9:55 ready to go sure

it's it's it's like the small stuff yeah

it's a small stuff it is a small stuff

uh we are recording this on

Thursday opening day of the NCAA

tournament official opening day I do not

count the play in yeah I don't I don't

count the play in not because not

because I've been in the play in a

couple times now as an NBA player but I

do not count a play in I don't get it's

like it's not official because you're

still playing into the tournament yeah

um and your high school coach just got a

big win about an hour ago yes he did

what what did you learn from

him oh my

goodness

um I think the number one thing that I

learned from him right

away

is how

to not only approach the

game but also how to think the game and

also play at a level that

was a lot harder and determined than the

a tournaments that I was playing in

beforehand um I got to coach Dan br

my ninth grade year so My First Year at

high school first of all back to the

fear

thing when you go from middle school to

high school you all already terrified of

what lies ahead you don't know what to

expect you know obviously you know in

Ohio you have six seventh and eth and

middle school so you have that feeling

coming out of Elementary going to the

Middle School from the fifth to sixth

grade you have that fear older people in

in the schools and how is it going to

affect you and things of that nature and

then you go to the high school and you

see you know kids with beards and you

know teachers they just look so much

more massive you you know and um and I'm

going to a a coach that is a former

college basketball coach and you hear

the stories I mean you know firsthand

probably or maybe you don't because

you're great you maybe had have to do

everything but you know I heard you know

the stories of like you know 500 am

wakeups to go run the mile or you know

this was your high school coach this is

my high school coach this is my high

school coach this is my high school

coach you hear the stories of like you

know one mistake everyone's going to run

until the coach gets tired and in my

head I'm like how in the hell does a

coach get tired if he's not running so

you like terrified of all of this you

know so the one thing back to your

question that I learned from coach D is

that um we're going to practice

Perfection every single day day every

single day he always used to tell us the

game uh the practices are going to be

way freaking harder than the

Gams and you don't understand that every

time the coach say get on the

line that's a universal that's a

universal word right there or or

Universal term right there get on the

line you know that's the last thing you

want to hear as a basketball player to

get on the line but he was um he was

super strict he was super demanding he

would get in your face call you out of

your name there were kids whose parents

used to come to

practice that he would call them out of

their names right in front of their

parents my sophomore

year my freshman year we win the state

championship we go 27

and0 I was MVP of of the

tournament uh obviously Maverick was our

captain um my freshman

year my sophomore year the first

practice I was

uh came in as projected number one

player in the state of Ohio I was

projected to be All-American as a

sophomore projected to be Mr basketball

as a sophomore which had never been done

in Ohio High School uh

history and the first practice we had

our sophomore year after the winning

state championship I did absolutely

nothing wrong coming out of football he

kicked me out of

practice he kicked me out of practice I

had no idea why the [ __ ] he kicked me

out of practice

and I think he was just setting the tone

for the season yeah like wherever the

[ __ ] or wherever you think you

are yeah I've heard all of this stuff

about how great you are and things that

nope I'mma humble your ass right now it

kicked me out of practice in the last

thing he said to me when he kick him out

of practice first day practice he said

best sophomore in the country my ass I

love that I love that setting the tone

right away best sophomore in the country

my ass and kick me out of practice

I I actually think I had a healthy level

of respect so I played varsity as a

freshman but actually my school middle

school was sixth through nth grade

really so I didn't even go to high

school yet say that again so it was

sixth through nth grade we didn't have

space they have space at the high school

so the year after I left they built a

second high school they split into two

they mov down a division that sort of

thing right right so I'm coming off

eighth grade I start JV M I grew seven

inches that year [ __ ] I learned how to

shoot without my left thumb yeah started

shooting a real jump shot I go to a

Nationals in Florida I average like 35 a

game so I'm coming into freshman year

with a decent level of confidence and I

knew my high school coach was tough

because my JB coach was so tough yeah

but I was Brash and cocky you know the

kid you saw at Duke early on I was that

kid I was that kid and we were playing

um preseason we're just like doing

pickup so we would do these stations

where you had like 30 seconds to a

minute on so 30 seconds to a minute on

walls sits 30 seconds to a minute on D

slides with bands 30 seconds to a minute

on jumping jacks with a weight like all

this stuff and we do that for like 30 to

45 minutes and then we' we'd play pickup

so there was this this senior named

Kevin Conley and and he uh he was he was

good but I also played his position and

he hadn't started the year before so he

was like very much wanted the starting

position so we were playing pickup and

truthfully Kevin I was busting your ass

I was busting his ass no he and he said

and I started yapping off yeah and he

said to me said I'm tell you right now

shut the [ __ ] up and he gave me the look

mind you I'm I'm my size but 155

pounds so I I was like oh he's gonna

kick my ass and I didn't say anything we

checked the ball up as soon as somebody

passed it he just popped me in the in

the face right my jaw still popped this

day and pretty much from that day on I

had a healthy level of fear for high

school a healthy level of

fear do you uh do you think there's

anything for you I know for me like I

played for Coach K I played for a great

High School coach I played for Boo

Williams in a we talked about our

coaching and how important that was to

us last time do you think for you there

was anything

transferable from what you learned in

high

school to what you had to do in the NBA

especially early on from a coach's

perspective or the on the court being

being a player on the

court no totally different

game um it was a totally different game

but the the nuance and the and the

fundamentals and you know the things

that was

being that was being taught to me as a

18yearold I I I kind of had already knew

a lot of that [ __ ] I mean it's it's

weird to kind of say because you feel

like when you get to the NBA you're to

learn so much more which I eventually

did you know and I think that just came

with like we always talk about you know

experience the best teacher in life is

experience you know but when I when I

got to the NBA the biggest adjustment I

had was literally just going from

like oh [ __ ] I don't have to go to class

every day you know um I you know I'm

going from 27 Game season to now 82 so

like oh [ __ ] like after 27 games in the

NBA you know around about 32 games I'm

like I'm

exhausted you know so now like what what

what can I do to get the get the energy

back going but as far as when I stepped

out on the

floor there wasn't too much of an

adjustment um I felt like I was physical

um enough I felt like I had the size I

had the Speed Out obviously had the

athleticism obviously um you know you

have the you know some of the vet tricks

and things of that nature how to get

away with certain things that I had to

kind of learn and whatever the case may

be but um and then I was thrown around

with many positions my rookie year too

like at one point I was I was a two

guard at one point you know my first

game in Sacramento I was coming off

floppies oh we'll get to that in a bit

yeah you know we'll get to that in a bit

Yeah and then next you know we know we

do make a change or whatever now I'm the

point guard is like you know which is

one natural position for me but also not

a natural position like I love to pass

the ball I love to bring the ball up but

I've never really started at the point

guard position so it's still very diff

different but um I was able to just kind

of

seamlessly kind of just move right on in

figure it out on the fly a little bit

Yeah figure it out on the Fly um with

the tournament going on right now have

you I rewatched episode one and I you

talking about uh not going up to Ohio

State for parties or down to Ohio State

for parties I was like all right I

wonder if he ever thought to himself

this time of year man I wonder what it's

like to play in March Madness absolutely

you have yeah 21 years later not you're

still thinking about it every year yeah

this is the only time though I was

thinking about all the stuff you've

experienced in basketball but you

haven't experienced that this is the

only March Madness right now is the only

time I think about playing college

basketball for 21 straight years I don't

watch much college basketball this year

I watch a ton of it obviously because

Bonnie's in college you know so I was

there watching the game but it's

just it doesn't translate for me it

frustrates me my high blood pressure

picks up I'm a black man and high blood

pressure is not good for us so I try to

stay away from it but I love basketball

so I find myself watching it anyways

but um I literally before we came in

here like you said Duan won their game

big shout out to the Dukes coach coach D

my best friend Drew Joyce right after

the game I was watching Illinois versus

uh Morhead State scouting because that's

who they play

next and you're G to give him notes

already did I already sent notes already

I got to watch like a quarter uh third

third three fours of the game before we

started and I've already sent

notes I I I'm a I'm a junkie man yeah I

I I'm well aware of that well aware I

want to talk about spacing

today do you you you mentioned coming

off floppy in that Sacramento game your

very first game do you do you

specifically remember your two first

first two baskets of your career I

remember my first one okay my my first

basket was coming off a floppy action

and I faded to the corner by our bench

and received the ball over the top and

hit a I had a 17 18 foot first of all

it's hilarious that you were running

floppy it's hilarious on that one you

came

off and took the one dribble Baseline

and C Boze after he set the screen kind

of backed up into the pocket around the

elbow there was like space a little

space on the second one you came off the

other side and curled and Ricky Davis

hit you at the elbow and I have this

screenshot on my phone and it's Z on the

left block y SE SE BL on the right block

Darius miles spotting up from about 17

feet at the right wing is but not really

space not really space and then Ricky

Davis is just standing there at the top

of the key it's like literally eight or

nine people people all just right there

and then you drove back and hit a little

fall way going left

yeah when did you start to feel like the

spacing was changing in the NBA um you

know that's a good question I'm trying

to

think I I think the spacing started to

change in the

NBA I

think I think Stan Van Gundy had a lot

to do with it you know now that I think

about I'm thinking because I'm in the I

was in the East and obviously um you

know they they they they had a lot of

spacing you know in Sacramento in the

early 2000s but it it wasn't a lot of

spacing maybe they just had some

shooting obviously Mike bib could shoot

the ball you know uh you know Pia was

shooting the ball they ran Corner splits

yeah they run Corner splits they you

know uh you know vlot you know could

play the elbow could play the corner

could hit the you know the three at time

see you know see web from time to time

with space a little bit but he was more

in the post um you know Bobby Jackson

will fly off obviously for shots but you

know I don't I believe Stan with with

with with Dwight you know kind of in

that that 07 08 09 kind of

range they started to change it a lot

you know um I hadn't seen that much

space because I played against the

Detroit Pistons and obviously you have

you know you had rip on his floppy down

action you know flying off the floppy

down or the two chest or whatever the

case may be um but with Stan I think he

saw what he had in Dwight and he started

to build that team around him to like I

want nothing but space you know and we

saw that we saw it when rashar Lewis got

on that team we saw withu turkalo got

there you know and then added jir you

know and added just a bunch of space you

as you as well like took a while yeah

you know it took a while to use your

superpowers I tell you that it took a

while for you to use your superpowers or

them to use your superpowers for the