Ariana Grande | "eternal sunshine" Track By Track Breakdown [Part 2]
Summary
TLDRIn this heartfelt conversation, Ariana Grande discusses her new album, the challenges and triumphs in love, and the profound impact of her relationships. She shares her creative process, from writing lyrics to producing music, and the significance of astrology in her life. Grande's appreciation for her collaborators, especially Max Martin, is evident as she reflects on the transformative power of art and the beauty of creating something from nothing.
Takeaways
- 🎶 The conversation begins with a discussion about love and relationships, highlighting the significance of the speaker's first real relationship.
- 🌟 The speaker expresses pride and happiness for a friend's recent achievements, indicating a strong bond and support within their circle.
- 💔 There's a reflection on past experiences with love, including the challenges and growth that comes from navigating relationships.
- 🎵 The creation of music, particularly songwriting, is discussed as a deeply personal and emotional process, with the hardest song to write being one that seeks to avoid harshness while acknowledging the end of a relationship.
- 🌈 The importance of self-awareness and empathy in art is emphasized, with the speaker striving to create songs that are kind and empowering.
- 👩 The influence of the speaker's mother is significant, with her strength and example serving as a role model and inspiration for the speaker's own life choices.
- 🎶 The album 'Eternal Sunshine' is mentioned, with the speaker discussing the process of creating the album and the collaboration with producer Max Martin.
- 🏆 The speaker's gratitude for their fans and the significance of their debut at number one is expressed, showing appreciation for the support received.
- 🎶 The role of astrology in the speaker's life is discussed, with the interlude 'Saturn Returns' being a pivotal moment in the album's narrative.
- 🎵 The song 'Boy Mine' is highlighted as a favorite, showcasing the speaker's love for '90s music and their desire to create something that resonates with their listeners.
- 💖 The conversation concludes with a reflection on the power of art and music to create something from nothing, and the beauty in the ability to share these creations with the world.
Q & A
What is the significance of the album title 'Eternal Sunshine' for the artist?
-The album title 'Eternal Sunshine' is significant because it represents a journey of love and self-discovery. The artist was inspired by the movie 'Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind' and the concept of cycles in relationships, as well as the idea of capturing a moment in time that didn't exist before and making it beautiful.
How does the artist describe their relationship with their parents in terms of learning about love?
-The artist admits they didn't learn much about love from their parents, as their parents' example of love at home was different and not the fairy tale they craved. They had to learn about love from other human experiences, which contrasts with the example their parents set.
What was the hardest song for the artist to write on the album?
-The hardest song to write was 'By You' because the artist wanted it to sound self-aware and not like a typical love song. They wanted it to reflect the reality of moving on from a situation and the accountability that comes with it.
Who is Max Martin to the artist and how did he contribute to the album?
-Max Martin is a highly respected producer and a close friend of the artist. He helped the artist ensure that the songs were not watered down and maintained their emotional honesty. They worked closely together, pushing each other creatively and supporting each other throughout the album-making process.
What does the artist mean when they say 'Yes' is the right first single to introduce the story of the album?
-The artist believes 'Yes' is the right first single because it stands on its own and sets the tone for the album by acknowledging that everyone has their own journey and experiences that others may not be aware of. It also reflects the artist's feelings about their career and the constant scrutiny they've faced.
Why did the artist choose Mariah Carey to remix the song 'Yes'?
-Mariah Carey was chosen for the remix because she is the artist's number one vocal inspiration and they consider her the queen of music. The artist has admired Carey since they were young and felt her involvement elevated the song significantly.
How does the artist describe their experience working with Max Martin on this album?
-The artist describes the experience as intimate, productive, and incredibly special. They spent a lot of time together, working long hours and even going to shows and dinners. The artist feels grateful for the opportunity to work with Martin and to become closer friends after 12 years of knowing each other.
What is the significance of the song 'Saturn Returns' in the context of the album?
-The song 'Saturn Returns' signifies a wake-up moment and a pivotal shift in the album's narrative. It represents the astrological event where Saturn returns to its original position at 29.5 year intervals, prompting deep self-awareness and confrontation of patterns. The artist uses this concept to express personal growth and change.
How does the artist view the role of astrology in their life?
-The artist sees astrology as a tool that helps them hear what they need to hear, look forward with hope and awareness, and sometimes provides tough love. They believe in the power of astrology to provide guidance and make sense of their experiences.
What was the last song the artist wrote for the album, and why is it their favorite?
-The last song the artist wrote for the album was 'Imperfect for You,' which is their favorite because of its unique sound and personal connection. The song has a trippy, 60s feel that the artist had not explored before, and it captures a special moment of being one's truest self.
How does the artist feel about the song 'We Can't Be Friends'?
-The artist loves 'We Can't Be Friends' and considers it their second favorite song on the album after 'Supernatural.' They appreciate the emotional impact of the strings in the song and the way it resonates with them personally.
Outlines
🎶 Reflecting on Love and Personal Growth
The speaker discusses their journey through love, highlighting their first real relationship and its significance. They express pride and happiness for a friend's love experience, reflecting on the different forms of love they've witnessed. The conversation touches on the impact of parental love, personal readiness for relationships, and the growth that comes from navigating love and life's journey with chosen partners.
🎵 Embracing Empathy in Songwriting
The speaker delves into their approach to songwriting, emphasizing the importance of kindness, empathy, and self-awareness. They share their fears of replicating negative cycles and the lessons learned from their mother's strength and decision-making. The discussion also explores the interconnectedness of songs on the album, the complexity of human emotions, and the process of creating music that resonates with listeners' experiences.
🎼 Collaboration and Evolution in Music Production
The speaker recounts their collaborative experience with Max Martin, a renowned producer, during the creation of their album. They discuss the iterative process of refining songs, the vulnerability and intimacy of the studio sessions, and the impact of working with someone they admire. The conversation also touches on the role of curiosity and humility in the creative process, and the significance of learning from experienced artists.
🌟 The Power of Idols and Astrology in Art
The speaker expresses gratitude for the support and respect from their idols, such as Mariah Carey, and the surreal experience of working with them. They discuss the role of astrology in their life, using it as a tool for understanding and hope. The conversation also highlights the significance of the album's title, 'Eternal Sunshine,' and the interlude that serves as a pivotal moment in the album's narrative.
🎧 The Joy of Creation and Artistic Expression
The speaker shares the joy of creating music, from the initial spark of inspiration to the final product. They discuss the excitement of bringing a song to life, the emotional connection to their music, and the fulfillment that comes from sharing their art with others. The conversation also touches on the complexity of emotions involved in breakup songs and the importance of capturing the full spectrum of human feelings in their work.
🎶 The Art of Vocals and Layering in Music
The speaker describes their meticulous approach to vocals, emphasizing the emotional honesty and the strategic layering of sounds. They discuss the use of technology in their creative process, the influence of their idols on their vocal style, and the satisfaction of transforming a simple idea into a fully-fledged song. The conversation also includes anecdotes about working with Nona, a close friend, and the potential for future creative projects.
🎵 The Influence of '90s Music and Personal Pen Pals
The speaker talks about their love for '90s music and its influence on their work, including the interpolation of a favorite song from that era. They share a personal anecdote about their correspondence with Jim Carrey, whose art and ability to transform personal experiences into creative expression have deeply impacted them. The conversation concludes with a reflection on the album's theme of strength and the beauty of turning life's imperfections into art.
Mindmap
Keywords
💡Love
💡Relationships
💡Self-Awareness
💡Growth
💡Vulnerability
💡Artistry
💡Influence
💡Empathy
💡Transformation
💡Authenticity
Highlights
The discussion begins with the host expressing happiness and pride for a friend's first real relationship.
The host shares a personal anecdote about a traumatic experience involving unrequited love and a misunderstanding.
The host talks about the importance of learning from every human experience, especially love, and how it differs from the love experienced at home.
The host's mother is mentioned as a strong, inspiring figure who has taught the importance of self-awareness and accountability in relationships.
The host discusses the process of songwriting, emphasizing the importance of empathy and kindness in lyrics.
The host and the guest bond over their shared history, including a humorous story about a past crush.
The host talks about the vulnerability and intimacy involved in creating music, especially when working with trusted collaborators.
The host expresses gratitude for the opportunity to work with Max Martin, a renowned producer, and the impact he has had on their growth as an artist.
The host shares the significance of the album's title, 'Eternal Sunshine,' and its connection to personal growth and self-discovery.
The host discusses the role of astrology in their life, particularly how it provides guidance and helps make sense of their experiences.
The host talks about the importance of creating art and music as a form of self-expression and the joy of seeing it resonate with others.
The host reflects on the complexity of emotions involved in breakups and how their music aims to capture this nuanced human experience.
The host shares their excitement about a remix of their song 'Yes' by Mariah Carey, expressing admiration for her as an artist and inspiration.
The host discusses the process of selecting the right single to introduce the story of the album and why 'Yes' was the perfect choice.
The host talks about the significance of the song 'Imperfect for You' and why it's their favorite track on the album.
The host reflects on the phenomenon of creating something from nothing and the beauty of art taking on a life of its own.
The host shares a personal story about recording the song 'I Wish That I Hated You' and the emotional process involved.
The host discusses the importance of including various types of vocals in their music, emphasizing the emotional honesty behind each choice.
The host talks about the song 'Can't Be Friends' and its significance in the context of the album's overall narrative.
Transcripts
[Music]
we're
rolling yes I love you clapping Zach
say guys can we finally talk about I
mean I just I know that this is how we
started the last one but I might have to
start this one like it too I used to
tell you suck a dick Zach Sayang in
hopes and pray that you would do it and
you do it now they did
I so happy for you thank you so much I'm
so proud it's a big deal it's a big deal
it's my first real relationship and like
first love and probably my last love God
willing no yeah I mean yeah absolutely I
thought of that at a I got scared I
don't know what you meant I was like is
this are you guys jumping together what
is it no yeah it lasts first and last I
hope so I really gosh I mean that's so
beautiful it's special I'm really happy
for you it's really I mean it's like uh
yeah love is wild like yeah watching
friends experience it and navigate it
and so many times yeah it's true yeah I
but I learned a lot from every human
being who is going through love I didn't
learn much love from my parents just
being honest like and my parents can
watch this and be angry at me for it but
like it was just different like the
example of love I got at home
was it's just different it was different
it it's it's interesting
you know happiness hits different in
this year yeah and I think moving
forward and uh a lot of it I think has
to do with who I choose to live with and
share my life with and take on this
Journey with I think so too but
also because you yourself were ready for
it so don't not give yourself credit
please no you're 100% right because you
you you can't take on you're a different
person I am right I have to say yeah
thanks and you know me for yeah makes my
heart really happy Liz and I talk about
it we do we're very proud of our little
son you so much we love you it is your
mommies love you thank you thanks Mom
thanks Mom I went through like a whole
like year period where I just
exclusively called you Mom yeah two of
us we are that's what we are it's true
that's our most important role you know
it was so funny this morning I was
thinking about Liz as like an Italian
mother she's recently given Italian
mother more than ever before more than
ever but she's given it since she was 12
totally but now it's oozing out of her
100 well I mean it's like Among Us it's
coming it's it's right here you think no
but but not at all but sorry sorry
no it's not but also like it's that it's
she you know what I mean she treats all
of her friends like children she treats
which she has for a while she treats her
dogs like children I mean she treats
like her very old friends like kids
she's very maternal but is not pregnant
just so everyone just to make it extra
clear yeah know um no thank you for for
for acknowledging though that love
because it's been like this weird thing
in my life that I don't know like my
relationship world like been stunted a
little bit I've seen them I've seen it
we've seen each other's oh my God we've
both seen a lot of each we've both
helped each other through so much I mean
I remember I called you the first night
I thought I was going to lose my
virginity mhm oh my God this was like
five years ago no long I mean longer
than that seven yeah could be no could
be nine wa yeah I've known you 15 years
oh my God was so long ago long ago and
it was to a girl that's how long ago it
was and then didn't you walk in and she
was like your brother or
something somebody else in my
sister's room you you were close it was
crazy I literally was like oh yeah I'm
definitely going to like I've had this
crush on this girl she's totally giving
me signes nightmare that is deeply
traumatic I go to deliver her a cup of
water a cup of water and I just see of
water her on top of this other guy and I
dropped the cup and I just walk away
that is so traumatic yeah I can I yeah I
hope you can forget it one day Eternal
Sunshine that'll be one that we erase
doctor hook him up work on me yeah we
have an album to go through yes and an
album of Eternal Sunshine yeah yeah what
was the hardest song to write and what
was the easiest song to write on this
album oh God I
I
hardest I think by honestly it's a very
simple and silly lyric and it's
not but it was hard for the reason that
I desperately didn't want it to sound
like a you I wanted it to sound
like I need to leave so by you know like
I wanted it to be kind of rooted in
self-awareness and like not you you
go but with love
I'm immigrating from the situation
that's why I put it after the intro end
of the world because it asks a question
that is sort of takes accountability and
is self aware and then going into buy is
like prefacing it because I think my
biggest fear on when it comes to
songwriting in general is just kind of
um even if the concept is strong and
even if empowerment is important and I
want to empower people making sure that
it is kind and that it leads with
empathy and that it has that it's still
fun but it's like I just wanted to make
sure it wasn't like any sort of
harshness that isn't in My DNA but also
beautifully aware and I think like dude
it's not the first time that I've been
Hostage to these tears acknowledging
that another relationship is over again
I mean it that is awareness yeah yeah
this
song and I hope I hope that this is okay
to say I might go on a little bit of a
deep dive and I hope that it's all right
to say of course is it okay if I talk
about my mom my mom a lot she's here in
the corner listening but is it
okay are you sure I might like air your
out a
little I got to air she said she's
wearing a purple lip today she's fine
yeah okay okay um but no I think like
the reason why I felt okay to go there
is because of my mom honestly
and
whoa
sorry almost there almost there okay I
think a lot of um I think growing up
kind of you want what you don't have
like you my parents got divorced for all
the right reasons
they weren't supposed to be
together and um you kind of crave when
you grow
up the happily ever after the one is the
one is the one so you ignore all these
issues and you you kind of um you cling
on to that fairy tale you kind of self-
abandon and I think um my mom is a
fierce example of not doing that and um
a massive thing that I learned in my
year of Saturn return is um that my
fears of replicating a certain
cycle was actually the
opposite I was like oh
wow I want to be so much more like her
than I am I want to have the strength to
say bye kindly when something
isn't right it's as simple as
that and she's the strongest most
brilliant person I know and it's also a
disco track which is my mom's favorite
thing in the world so it kind of feels
like my mom's song or like something
that I wrote from my mom's perspective
almost um because that's something that
I I watched her do a few times and um
and yeah that's kind of like I watch my
mom do the same thing and there's
strength and goodbye yeah because it's
it's hard to it's it's hard especially
when the most is invested yeah
especially when you do have so much love
you know um so yeah that's a kind of a a
pattern that I realized I don't need to
be afraid of because it means doing the
right thing it means listening to
your
soul and not being afraid to be
uncomfortable don't want to break up
again follows by and they are coupled
again like these songs are connected so
when you listen the best way to listen
is in totality and to I believe so I
believe believe so I prefer it that way
and then when you have your favorites
once you once you know you can do it
want but yeah they are coupled in an
interesting way because it's kind of
like don't want to break up again is
kind of like The Hangover of by in a way
it's like okay that that this has
happened but I'm
reflecting and there are so many
polarizing feelings that we experience
as human beings kind of with regard to
one situation and that's what I like
about these two being back to back
because in by I say at least we know we
tried didn't we the two of us we did
good and then in don't want to break up
again it's like well you didn't even try
till the end you like both feelings
exist at different you know what I mean
so I like the humanness of that I like
that they are layered and complicated
and all of the different emotions that
come with loving and leaving are kind of
showcased I guess it it is
a it's a it's a it's a process right
like it's not just a one andone
situation it is something that is felt
and experienced
and it's over time so yeah a song I
don't want to break up again and then
buy how long or how many different
versions of those songs exist before you
got the version that we hear
today
uh I think there are a few of by and I
think there's one of don't want to break
up again what are the biggest
differences between them is it lyrical
differences
yeah I think
by I wrote on a day when I was very
upset and emotional so it was a little
bit
more reactive and I and it just wasn't
representative of like how I actually
feel so I I like filtered it through and
I combed through a bunch of times and it
was important to me to make sure that it
wasn't just
like that for that exact reason because
I it's like important to me that yeah
but there's something you capturing that
song In the Heat of the Moment right
we're capturing any song In the Heat of
the Moment abely and that's where
honestly that's where Max is so so I
mean he's the most brilliant producer in
the entire world and like the greatest
guy and great dad and the best person
the best human being on the planet but
as a friend he's like a friend to me on
a personal level but also on an artist
level like he will make sure that I
don't water down my truth too much or
that I don't like make things
too accustomed to how others will you
know what I mean like he's just he he's
very protective of me as a human first
and foremost but then also secondary to
that he's very protective of the body of
work how do you know he was the right
person to bring this story to oh my gosh
I mean he's Max Martin but also just how
he makes me feel yeah he knows you yeah
he knows me so well and he
um I don't know we really we push each
other in such a beautiful way that is
like we're both so so supportive of one
another and
excited I don't know it's just beautiful
we're both like like I'm such a happy
student to be in the room with him you
know I'm just so grateful to be in his
presence we'll just sit there together
and kind of just it happens very quickly
sometimes that was the thing that we
did uh that was really productive this
album was if it wasn't there we would
kind of Jump Around go to a different
idea and see if it was there and then if
it wasn't we'd come back to it and
bounce around but everything just poured
out so you
know yeah I don't know it was it was
very interesting once The Melodies were
there maybe he would go work on a
different track or something and then
come back and check on me and be there
with my laptop scribbling away and then
you know it was just it was very
intimate it was very intimate two of us
for most of it just really you him and
Ilia right yeah Ilia came for the very
last trip and it was so much fun um they
give me goosebumps yeah Ilia and
shintaro had been sending us beats stuff
like that so they were they were kind of
like virtually there with us but in the
room it was mostly just me and Max for
most of the time andara who come alone
and and Max was would call him and
FaceTime and check on me and whatever
but he was here for a week in September
a week in October and a week in November
and in between I was coming every day on
my own so it was really vulnerable it
was really naked it was really fun yeah
another memory that I'll keep with me
forever is when I walk into the studio
to hear this album you are sitting
behind this ginormous Monitor and
there's this F like a thousand audio
files in front of you and you're just
finishing the last song on the album
you're literally doing it all yourself
yeah well not all but but you that's
very kind but I do like to there's a
real hand in this process yeah yeah yeah
but but but I also had the privilege of
working with the most incredible
producers in the entire world
blessed what what do you learn from him
that's made you into a better producer
and artist just to be who he is and be
so curious and so hungry still there are
so many codes left to crack in his
opinion it's really crazy like he is one
of one and his generosity his curiosity
it's like when you spend time with him
you learn very quickly why he is who he
is he has no idea that he's Max Martin
and it's the most it's my favorite thing
in the world world because it's the
thing that he lives for he loves it so
much we spent so many long long long
days working on this album together just
he and I and um it's just such a an
honor to get to know him in that way and
also even become closer as friends after
12 years of knowing each other this is
like the most time we've spent together
we went to shows we went to like little
dinners we would walk to work every day
in the morning we walked the the high
The High Line oh that's so sweet yeah
all the way like it was so much fun we
walk together every single day those
moments make their way into the body of
work absolutely yeah oh I'm glad it's
you do have a relationship with him
that's unlike I mean anything I've ever
seen with a produ I mean like any artist
produc it's really special he's
incredible and the way he he treats
people is the most important thing like
he could be who he is and be sorry
ignore her oh no thanks
yeah thanks thank you so
much he could be who he is and be any
type of way he could be like other
people like he could be you know you
never know and and he's just the best
human being and he's the most incredible
producer in the world and curiosity is a
way I rest my case like like curiosity
is so on the nose as a way to describe
him because yeah I haven't spent much
time with the man at all most time I
spent with him was we went to Disneyland
together oh my God that's the best story
it it's really a lot it is a lot but he
just asked a ton of questions and was
really fascinated with everything yeah
the business of Disney incredibly
curious but also beautiful soul yeah and
like a really special person yeah and
it's so crazy like the best yeah but
there's something to that humility that
allows him to be the best Creator in the
world exactly he's
so brilliant because there's no ego in
it for him does that make sense 100%
you're allowed to grow and learn so much
more when you're not obsessed
with Optics and being right you know he
doesn't even know he's just curious yeah
he's just brilliant that's really that
being said what does going number one
mean to you oh my God that is an
Accolade that's a feat that's the first
time done this year going direct to
number one having a number one debut
yeah I mean it's
like such an incredible honor and my
fans are to thank and they are the most
incredible people in the entire world
and I'm just like I'm so grateful I I
try not to put too much weight in those
things we've talked about that a lot but
when it happens it's really special and
I like will always celebrate it when
it's does happen even though it's like
not of course at
all what matters but it's special and I
just am grateful because it also just
speaks to how many
people it resonated with yes and and
also to just my fans and how incredible
they are it's because of them and also
I'm glad because then now they have that
and that matters a lot to them why was
he say in the right first single to
introduce this entire story
um I think yes and is the one that lives
on its own and I also think it just kind
of sets the tone by saying everyone has
going on that you are you don't
know about and you and
we you know that too you know totally so
just sh does that make sense 100% in the
proper tone for this album yeah it's
really funny cuz like that is the
message of the song and
then people share things on Instagram
like inspirational quotes that are like
you never know don't judge a book by the
cover and you know it's just such a
funny Duality with the internet how
people can be
so toxic positive and then the next
tweet is the meanest thing I've ever
read in my entire life or the next
whatever it is it's funny it's a funny
time so I thought I think yes end is the
right thing to just say hey we're all
experiencing the same kind of Journey on
in a different way on a different level
on a different this and um I liked it
because it's also just expressing a
whole bunch of feelings that I've had
for the past forever of my career
there's always been a conversation about
my body my face my hair my voice my
everything and it's like if you change
it and correct it it's then it's wrong
again for different reasons it's
like all
right it's I'm done it's done I'm just
going to be that's all you can do I'm
just going to going to be cuz I
love being I love it just be and I want
everyone to feel that way as well oh
resonates with literally everybody bless
and release and yeah
shimi why was Mariah Carey the right
person to remix this song or feature it
oh my God because she's the I mean the
queen of my life the reason I sing is
that true absolutely she's my number one
vocal inspiration obviously she's my
she's mother that is that is mother
that's real mother I remember I'm pretty
sure I had a CD a physical SE of CD of
Ariana Grande covers emotions and
emotions was one of them 100% uh
diamonds was another one but uh that's
great we're only girl in the world there
shut I remember this yeah Joe
Knows yeah I remember this CD no
but I mean it's I bumped it it's almost
it's like the dream come true if you're
going to have anybody do a remix crazy
it should be the queen of a remixes and
of 9s music and of all music but also of
my life like Queen of my life and I love
it so much it's so good it elevated it
so much she's the queen when did you
write her verse and like I didn't she
did what I was like please if it's not
too much to ask just go do whatever the
you want think she did the intro
like all the high whistles in the intro
she did the pre Harmony she did the hook
she doubled the hook
I was like serban can you please make
her vocals louder than anything else in
the song I want to only hear the
harmonies I want to only hear her adlibs
I want to be in the background as quiet
as humanly possible it's my heaven she
the whole Bridge all these adlibs oh my
God I'm it's just so surreal what an
honor my God that's really special it's
so special and I feel like a song that I
don't know I mean every it resonates
with everybody but also yeah to have
someone who
oh my gosh has probably felt this way in
her
career I would imagine so many times you
know the queen of just kind
of rising above it all and to have her
grace it oh my God can you genuinely
tell me what it's like to have respect
from people you have idolized in this
lifetime because it's not it doesn't
stop with Mariah Carey like and this is
not the first time you've worked with
Mariah Carey like it Christen chenowth
being another just off top of mind dude
artha Franklin when she graced this
planet there's so many incredible
artists that show you respect and
appreciation that's it's something we
never talk about because again it's like
our relationship is mostly rooted in
human Ari yeah but it's what is is that
validation is it what is it
it's validation it's it's surreal it's
like it doesn't compute like I can't
really hold it all it's very
surreal um and it's just like I don't
know I I I'm very grateful I'm very
grateful for so many of my idols and
Inspirations to embrace me or to have
embraced me the way that they have and
it just feels very surreal I don't know
real recognizes
real like the greats have the ability to
recognize
that in somebody else I ah it's crazy
it's real It Is by The Way remix of
yesan with Mariah Carey
came it's wild okay back to the album
Saturn returns is really what's next on
my list because it goes end of the world
where you're questioning things and to
buy and to don't want to break up again
and then there's this change this shift
sonically too to a certain degree but
there's still disco elements that come
through the rest of the album why was
that moment the right place for an
interlude to
shift um for an interlude yeah because
that's what s returns really is yeah
yeah yeah it's a really tiny interlude
but I I think it just sort
of Saturn Eternal Sunshine feels like a
wake up moment sort of like a pivotal
moment in the story uh and the Saturn
returns coming right before it just kind
of with the wake up it tells you to wake
up um I don't know it just felt like
setting up the rest of the album in a
way I don't know who is speaking Diana
Garland she is an astrologist my dear
friend will Loftus who choreographed yes
and um who I met on Wicked he's uh one
of the associate choreographers when we
met it was like the most Cosmic
collision and uh he sent me that vocal
that he like chopped and put together
and he was like this made me think of
you
um and then Ilia put orchestrations
under it and I was like this is I hope
it's okay that this is going on my album
and he was like crying what does
astrology and I was crying too the role
of astrology in your life has meaning
right yeah for sure I mean even tarot
cards when I was in the studio you gave
me a reading you've been doing readings
on set yeah yeah
yeah what do you look to astrology for
is it understanding of what you're going
through is it an understanding of what
will be yeah I think it's kind of a a
tool to help
us hear what we need to hear sometimes
and kind of
look forward with hope and awareness and
also reads us for Filth sometimes
sometimes we need to hear it and just
looking to something bigger than us to
kind of help us make sense of it does
that make sense totally by the way if
you don't know what it is and we
explained it you know in part one I'm
sipping a hidden coffee go ahead go
ahead it is when you're born Saturn's in
a certain position and it takes 29 and a
half years for Saturn to return to that
position and when it returns to that
position you are faced with deep
awareness of oneself and a confronting
of patterns
correct yes and a wake up course
correction one would say course
correction you you think when do you
know for certain that it's the title of
the
album well I I kind of I've always loved
that movie since I was a little girl um
I am a huge Jim Carrey fan I always have
been and
um
I was always sort of attracted to the
idea of writing a song around that but I
think once I realized that the rest of
the songs were kind
of forming a story that felt kind of
similar to Eternal Sunshine where
there's sort of this like cycle this you
know that everyone's trying to break I
kind of it just fell into place do you
believe in that like is there something
to when you're making music just letting
go to the universe and or wherever your
brain will go and just seeing what
happens because we have like artists
come on the show and like there's a few
different schools of thought but like
one artist may say like I write a 100
songs and that's how I become a good
songwriter and then Chris Martin comes
on a bunch of times and preaches about
how the universe gave him Viva Lita and
he just like opens himself up and it
just beams from the Sky I love
that but there has to is there an in
between anywhere where like craft meets
the universe abely yeah yeah yeah I'm
somewhere in between I've learned I
don't know I sit somewhere between being
a literal witch literal witch I'm not
kidding and being like the most
realistic
cut dry
like you know yeah totally I don't know
I feel like I'm my most productive when
I am open and uh also when I pretend no
one's ever going to hear it that's when
I'm my my my best I think at what point
in the process do you have to be
reminded that people will hear it when
it's over got it and then I backtrack
many steps and I clean things up and I
figure it out just kidding Supernatural
m
MH this song
really there's two songs I feel the most
understood by on this album mhm it is
Supernatural the the horniest one I mean
a little bit yeah very much connected to
my current life really like it is so
connect that's so funny you're like the
one I align with the most the what about
that's sweet alignment I am so happy for
you yeah yeah thank you yeah thank you
again thank thank thankk you thank thank
do you
believe that the right love is actually
Supernatural what the are you
talking about that's where I'm at right
now in life that's beautiful thanks I
love that thank you it's really special
yay it is a special place what was the
last song you wrote for the album
imperfect for you which is my favorite
why is it your favorite I love it so
much I love it so much I don't know why
it's my favorite I think sonically it's
my favorite it's very different for me
it's very like trippy Rubber Soul Vibes
and that is kind of my my favorite music
to listen to and I don't think I've ever
really explored it for myself but it
just felt really fun
to um lean into it and make something
like super trippy 60s organic feeling
you know just capturing that kind of
thing there's something special about
being able to be your truest self with
someone yeah no matter how imperfect
that that person may be at that time or
I am yeah totally that's right yeah
totally I'll be the one you love to hate
oh moving on yeah go on oh wait no no
move right on go on no no no moving
moving moving no no I want to talk about
one of the lyrics everyone is everyone
over there is tired let's
go I don't think that's true oh maybe
they're all on their phone I see you all
Jesus Christ no they're done they're
done they're all done they've all
checked out they've all out of it
no but what is the most fulfilling part
about making an album when you write a
song that you love so much and you are
driving home or walking home and you
have your headphones on and playing the
bounce over and over and over again and
just not being able to sleep because
you're so excited about it and like
waking up with it stuck in your head and
like yesterday this didn't exist and
today it exists and it's like this crazy
I talk to Max about this all the time
he's like isn't that the crazy
CEST thing in the world it will never
get old to me he's like it will NE Jesus
oh that one was that one was near and
big that was giving train that one was
near and near and big are we should we
are we in the way no something come
through here something come through
something's got to come through that was
here oh I have lipstick all over my chin
come in Michael but I think that's the
most crazy thing can we do this while we
talk yeah it's giving Mimi it's giving
Mariah thank you there Michael
everyone we were the same shoes and same
pants we really do I complimented your
shoes when you came in and you were like
you talking to me you I'm talking
to you there is something though to
being able to create something from
nothing and the beauty involved in that
no it's the craziest thing you
said yesterday or not yesterday but we
said many times during this process when
we became obsessed with these songs
thank you I love you may I have a lipy
really quick I'm so sorry I have been
making out with this microphone it seems
but there's this thing
where um where you can't believe a thank
you where like you come in
and oh my God Michelle shamas is gonna
love this thank you I love you thank you
I love you um but there's this
phenomenon it's like the craziest thing
in the world where you leave you go to
work and something happens and the next
day like this thing is there that was
never there before and it's just you can
hear it and it's beautiful and you're
proud of it and you love it is like one
of the many things but maybe the
strongest thing I respect about artists
is this creation of nothing into
something and that's something being so
rooted in their identity and they put so
much of them themselves into something
yeah and you never know where that's
going to go and then the idea of sharing
it and then it becomes for other people
to enjoy and it wasn't there the day
before and then it's there the next day
and they may like it and they may
resonate it may resonate with them or it
may not and that's like such a beautiful
thing art art we can't be friends one of
my he just describing art
yeah as if it's the first time anyone's
ever thought of
Art and we have to go go on we can't be
friends's second favorite song next to
Supernatural it's been in my head I can
I it's the strings at the end are
flawless thank you they make me really
emotional those strings I love those
strings who are you talking to in this
song wouldn't you like to
know
I don't know I I wanted it to
be something that everyone could relate
to they can it can be whoever you want
it to be about but I know for me what
it's about I don't know I have a hard
time going into specifics because I feel
like that's not the point of it it's the
point is to leave it up for people to
make of it what they will interpretation
it's really interesting because to me
again like I take a song like this and I
apply it like to my own life I give it
my own meaning yeah right and I apply it
to somebody I hate like I apply it to
somebody that I know hate yeah that I
like there's no friendship here there's
or have given up on yes hate done yeah
hate is the wrong word I'm sorry that's
all right but no for you I'm just saying
you know yeah it's bad to Harbor
that it's such a great song why were the
strings needed and whose idea was it I
don't remember but Max and I both love
strings so we are probably very both
excited about that but they're just the
most emotional sound in the world I love
them so much there's a song that I I I
sounded like you were crying while
recording it probably was I wish that I
hated you mhm yeah what does that song
mean to
you um it's like it's one of those that
I I'm so glad
that feeling is captured on the album
but it's it's one that I won't listen to
probably or sing live probably but I
think it's like a very important color
to exist within the album because it's
yeah just an important piece of the
puzzle to me but I'm happy to
acknowledge the goodness I really am and
the efforts and that it just was not
correct and I don't need to pretend that
you're a monster to make peace with this
ending that's what that song is see and
it would be easy easier if you were but
but it's just you know what I mean it
can have not been right and that person
can still be a good person and I think
that's like a really important song to
write why was it needed on the album why
what part of the puzzle did it complete
well I think it completed the
songs the the family of breakup songs
where I wrote from a more hurt or upset
place and it's from a more
aware and
grieved place where it's like oh I can I
can I can give credit and you know make
peace with this and not carry that
version of you that I had when I was
upset I don't need to carry that version
yeah it's beautiful it's a beautiful
thing and it's like to terms with yeah
it's like grieving would be so much
easier if we hated a
person it's like good riddance but no
capturing the complexity of like what
happens if I
don't is imperative I think it's
protective as well how so but exactly
what you're talking about I think people
perceiving it and thinking something
about these are just songs but the way
people sensationalize things you know
it's protective as well was there a
moment where you realized that this
album has the ability to take on a whole
life of its own that you can never even
really imagine cuz it does like every
part every piece of art has the ability
to be bigger than one person right mhm
and live a life of its
own that's kind of happened to me many
times in my life with art um I don't
know I feel like a lot of the times
things have become so much bigger than
me as a human and kind of gotten ahead
of me and and a lot of when I was
younger was me trying to like chase
after and catch up and I don't know so
maybe it's I I I don't know it's
something I try not to think about
anymore in order to continue creating
otherwise if I think about it I will
stop yeah because it's Stabila over it's
Stabila absolutely I try to keep it from
my brain as much as possible so that I
can
continue thank you just pick things up a
it it's getting a little heavy in here
I'm sorry it's all right not your fault
you didn't write the album go
on I'm aware go
on I can take it oh boy's mine I made
this bed I will lay in it it's not true
go
on you talk about imperfect for you
being your favorite song on the album
yeah is there a song that you wish
wasn't needed to tell this story no I
love him perfect for you so
much I
love yeah sorry no tell me why I I I
just I think that there's in this day
and
age am I 900 in this day and age uh uh
we do a lot of like boiling things down
to a 10-second Tik Tok or a or a
headline or a little cherry-picked quote
from something we do a lot of like
stripping of humanness and Erasure of
context and I think that
even a simple lyric like happy disaster
is like making space
for all of that to exist
within one song and one idea and one
thought and every moment of Our Lives
contains multitudes of of feelings of
thoughts of good and bad and wicked and
goodness and you know that's also kind
of what Wicked is about as well it's an
example of how people become what they
are and how things get to where they are
there's a lot of erasing of the how and
and why these days totally so is true
story a bad next like song to talk about
or no it's fun because it's a it's a
true story it's an untrue story story
based on all untrue events so go on a
true story about all the lies you
fantasize yeah yeah yeah and the games I
know you play yeah I actually had that
hook from the batch of songs that um max
and I were working on for the Seth mic
Farland TV show that never happened so
that was like a sister song to fantasize
a couple of these little seedlings
existed before this album and um I
actually in the moment was like
we might have to save some of these for
when we do an album so that was
something that I even though it there is
a version of it out there already on Tik
Tok I was like I don't I it feels so
important I love it that much that I I
kind of want to reclaim it and uh make
out of it what I wanted to originally I
I didn't want to like let them win in
that way I guess what are the biggest
changes between what people have heard
of that song and what we're getting now
oh my goodness everything the production
the vocals the lyrics the everything it
was just like a shell it was a Seedling
back then it was a song about something
completely entirely different I don't
even remember that one anymore can you
explain to me your strategy and process
when it comes to vocals and what songs
require what types of vocals yeah well
I'm very picky when it comes to
everything no but um when I'm writing I
literally am writing sitting there with
like a mic like this and I'll just
mumble in and there's a demo version
that exists for a while until all the
songs are written and then I'll come
back with the
proper like expensive beautiful perfect
microphone for whichever vocal we're
cutting sometimes we'll switch depending
on what I'm singing if
it's but this one we actually use the
same thing the whole time I think it was
a tunkin something something I don't
know tunkin yeah yeah good microphone go
yeah I use one of those for a second
definitely not the one you use but yeah
no no but yeah and then I don't know I'm
very Discerning and weird when it comes
to my vocals because I I often don't
sing as much as I can sing on something
cuz for me it has to feel emotional and
it has to feel honest I don't like to
just like sing for the sake of singing
um but I am singing a lot more on this
album than I was on the last like three
so that's that's really nice I I enjoyed
singing more but then again it it felt
honest too so yeah I think that's like
really interesting singing for the sake
of singing and not doing that and
matching the emotion that the the song
gives right yeah I'm not like an
embellisher for the sake of embellishing
but you spend a lot of time manipulating
is the wrong word but like layering and
texing favorite things that to me cuz
it's not like it's not like just singing
That's The Voice as an instrument so
that to me is separate because I don't
feel like that's singing that feels like
music to me I love adding so many layers
in and stacks and pads even if you can't
even really hear them or even if we put
like a filter over them so that it
sounds
like a an instrument or a chord that's
played on a something it's like I just I
love that that's my heaven I feel like
that's something that not many people
know about you is that you will sit
behind a computer and layer and do all
these oh that's all I do well and you
have since I met you in like 2009 yeah I
remember the first song I ever heard of
yours and it was just that like yeah
only that I mean dude I remember the
song I use yesterday I was I mean I i'
like my idol is Mariah and image and
Heath yeah and I feel like I sit
somewhere in between the two of them
like that's where my brain learned
everything from imag on the production
side and Mariah from the vocal and
songwriting side and both of them I
don't know in a blender has always been
my sort of goal I suppose what first
pushed you to learn exactly how to work
these progam s and be more than just
somebody who comes in and lends vocals
to something well I loved watching
imagin like when I was a little girl I
fell in love with her I wanted to have
all of the technology that she used on
stage and I wanted to wrap leaves in my
hair and have like a looping machine and
a toron and all these weird things and I
wanted to produce and loop and write and
so I just kind of studied and
learned and yeah began you've gotten
incredibly incredibly good at it thank
you like it is again like my f one of my
favorite memories is walking into that
studio and watching you do your thing
look hella small behind this ginormous
monitor like with a thousand layers of
vocals in front of you thank you working
on the last song on the album that
features Nona yeah what was it like
playing the album for her I didn't play
the whole album for her but I did play
the song that she's on okay she was very
excited to be on the album and she was
very moved by it and she loved that she
was there and then she told many stories
about all the different times she's been
on my
albums she was like it's not the first
time it's there's been many more I was
on the first
one yeah it's interesting cuz the album
starts with a question and ends with an
answer from a person that I love and
Trust so implicitly I cherish what my
family has to share with me any advice
that I call upon in my own existence
like I listened to that you texted me
about it yeah I was like I need to hear
that voice memo I just need to
hear the reminder I need I need that
lesson not to like change topics but the
funniest thing about that voice memo is
that sometimes when I'm with nona I will
just record her for like hours because
she's the funniest person on the
planet and that tiny thing is in the m
is in the dead middle of like an hour of
her and Shirley like bitching about men
and about feminism and about how well
yeah just I it's It's the funniest
someday there'll be an Extended Cut of
the song and you'll hear Shirley her
best friend and Nona talking about all
their their craziness there was a in my
head version of the album where I was
going to interview like Nona and all of
her friends and like my mom and like
Lanie and like like everyone but really
strong women yeah and just like showcase
as interludes stories and like about
love and and learning and relationships
from just women that I love so much but
I didn't have time to do it but that
existed in my head for a while
understanding that this is this is a
story of strength
right you you tell me I believe so I
believe so I mean it starts with doing
something that's incredibly strong and
it ends with one of the strongest human
beings in your life giving you an answer
to a question you desperately need sorry
no
please please by the way if you haven't
listened to the album yet you should
there's going to be a link in the
description below thank you yeah this is
you should be proud of this one thank
you you really should how are you
feeling I feel good how are you feeling
I'm feeling great I honestly want to go
listen to we can't be
friends it's good it's really good is
that everything I think we've covered a
lot here what are we missing we look
through my
notes
um nothing actually hey dude we've
covered we've covered
everything we've covered we need talk
about the boy mine can you explain this
song to me yeah oh my God how do we
forget that's going to be everyone's
favorite and it is unfortunately why do
you say unfortunately no I think well
cuz I think it's just like naughty it's
the it's the version of fantasize on the
album that they wanted to have that you
know it's just like a sexier naughtier
one and I think it's a it's more
provocative than the rest but oh yeah
but it's um yeah it's not about what you
think it was about and it's also a song
that I've always wanted to interpolate
is that what the kids are calling now
100% yeah I have like many different
versions of it from like years ago that
I yeah but this is like not that hly who
are you what interpolations on it um
just the title oh the title The Boy's
mine that's it got it got it got it cuz
I remember there was an old song that I
love that you played me years ago and it
still comes up on Twitter every now and
then you sampled like TLC yeah because
everything yeah yeah sorry oh my God
that's right you yeah I love I I just I
just like that song
back yeah yeah yeah supposed to be
on was it thank you there's no sweetener
yeah supposed to be on sweetener mhm I
love that song really good I'm such a
'90s baby I have so many like '90s
interpolation ideas samples in my brain
but no this was one this one finally
found a home I wanted it to come after
true story on the track list because
that song plainly says like I'll play
the bad girl if you need me
to great I'll do it here and here's a an
example so I I kind of put it there for
that reason but it's just it's supposed
to be just kind of like instead of
fantasized you can have this cuz I think
this might be better you
know oh my gosh you're not only that
just broke my knee so sorry are you
you're going to bruise and you just take
me to the hospital no I am I'm going to
bruise I'm very fragile okay I'm anemic
I'm so sorry am I I don't can we get a
doctor I bruise like a
[Laughter]
peach
okay we'll move on right yeah yeah yeah
that' be great that'd be super
fun cool the Stars day align baby Stars
day align they did ah they did I feel
like we've covered a lot as Chris Martin
said can you do a tarot card reading for
me oh my God I wish I brought them yeah
what is what are you just walking around
set looking to do reading no no they
come to me oh interesting they come to
me you are a witch I am indeed the Wiest
witch something happened recently that I
actually couldn't wrap my head around I
need to remember it I need to remember
it to be fair you couldn't wrap your
head around it so it was the witchiest
thing yeah I couldn't and I didn't I
forgot it clear just keep going
something really witchy oh Jim car's
birthday thank you Mom I announced
Eternal Sunshine on Jim's birthday and I
didn't know it was his birthday
you Channel Jim Carrie in so many ways
and you had for so long you I mean his
movies and his art exist subconsciously
within you as you like just in my
vibe I was like all righty
then thank you no but there is his art
has had such an impact on you yeah
absolutely I also think I kind of
like I mean he's so brilliant I
love him so much but also I think like I
just am so enamored by his ability to as
he put it I'm quoting him take all of
these broken pieces of himself and apply
them to these different characters and
heal through them and make use of them
like it's just so beautiful do you I
love it do you take any of that apply it
to what you do I don't think I I I don't
think I would say I mean intentionally I
I don't know but that's what I guess
we're supposed to do is like make out of
what is here and like transform these
little like cracks and
scratches into
something more beautiful I guess there's
like yeah I don't know I guess it's just
he's just so beautiful he's such a
beautiful soul I emailed him I said
happy birthday
Jim and he responded with the most
lovely lovely response as always we're
kind of like pen pals but like it's once
every few like long I I don't bother him
often I don't ever reach out but
sometimes he'll I'll send but he always
responds which is the sweetest thing and
he's always so kind and then there was a
followup to the response cuz I didn't
want to answer again cuz I don't want to
like I I'm like very like whoa I'm
scared I don't want to do too much
you're I love you it's like you know but
he responded again and he was like I
just heard about the album title like oh
my gosh that's crazy and I was like oh
no he thinks I did this on his birthday
he thinks I'm so creepy and weird no
you're just a witch and then I responded
and I was like hey just you know yeah
how crazy right I promise I promise I'm
not that weird there's something
to making taking the cracks and the
scratches and all that and turning into
something beautiful and something that
is bigger than oneself and that is
what's happening with this album well
thank you it's really special stuff
thank you I hope so I love you thank you
I can't thank you enough for continuing
to create art that
is so present future but also rooted in
these beautiful parts of nostalgia that
really really really really really are
Timeless
and yeah you cloak really beautiful
stories in the most awesome Sonics and
yeah this is my favorite album so far so
thank you I love you so much it's mine
too I appreciate this I love you forever
I love you forever yeah go listen to
internal sunshine this is my this is my
favorite of of our of our interviews my
hand sweaty I don't want to that's okay
I love I love you too the is pretty
sweaty
right be honest not bad okay thank you
so much I won't do you like that in
front of the world Arana Grande
soaked love you AR Grande
everybody yay Zach sing you happy I'm
[Music]
happy
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